PzcK vs CMBB

The highly anticipated second release in the Panzer Command series, featuring an updated engine and many major feature improvements. 3D Tactical turn-based WWII combat on the Eastern Front, with historical scenarios and campaigns as well as support for random generated battles and campaigns from 1941-1944.
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marcusm
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PzcK vs CMBB

Post by marcusm »

Just a question of time before this was asked but I will do it anyway.

So. For those who have played both games. How does this compare with Battlefronts
old gem? Is this more moddable, compared to CMBB where much of the date was locked.

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Mraah
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Mraah »



You're right ... it's been asked ... see page 2 of this main forum page ...

tm.asp?m=1744469

Rob[:)]
marcusm
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by marcusm »

But now people actually have this game ;).

Features is one thing but since there is no demo I still like to hear what veteran CMBB players thinks.

Btw. The no destructable buildings was new to me. How is battlefield destruction abstracted in that case? Degrading protection?
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Titanwarrior89 »

I have all four installed(Pck,Cmbo,Cmbb and Cmak).  They are alike in some areas and in other areas not.
 
Pck is at Platoon level(Hq Platoon with attached squads and or teams.  Their are no leaders but the Platoon Hq makes up for it. 
 
Graphics are good as or better than CM.  Sound is as good as CM but not better.  CM may have the individual weapons down more on the sound effects but again Pck is good.
 
The game is alittle more intense at times than CM and I am not for sure why but it seems to be.
 
Editors come with the game -Random editor is good, Campaign editor is excellent and for the scene editor is not user friendly.  Here CM excells over Pck in the editors.
 
They are both close cousins but not the same game.  If you like CM series you'll love Pck.  I would buy if I was you.  You won't be disappointed.[;)]
"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

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marcusm
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by marcusm »

The campaign thing does sound good. Loved that aspect of Steel Panthers.
Battlefront still havent finished the campaign edition as promised :(.

Regarding non destructable houses. DOes this go for all terrain or just buildings/houses?

How well are airstrikes/artillery modelled.

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Erik Rutins
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: marcusm
Just a question of time before this was asked but I will do it anyway.

So. For those who have played both games. How does this compare with Battlefronts
old gem? Is this more moddable, compared to CMBB where much of the date was locked.

Definitely read the other thread and the first impressions as well. There are a number of differences once you get below the visual layer, where they look similar.

It is definitely more moddable. You can add your own 3D Models, textures and add entire new units or change existing ones (though I recommend making copied new units for any changed versions so that you don't affect the balance in the official scenarios).

Regards,

- Erik
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Titanwarrior89 »

They don't have destructable building yet but may do so in future realeases. However there are some building already destroyed, so it isn't a totally clean battlefield.
ORIGINAL: marcusm

But now people actually have this game ;).

Features is one thing but since there is no demo I still like to hear what veteran CMBB players thinks.

Btw. The no destructable buildings was new to me. How is battlefield destruction abstracted in that case? Degrading protection?
"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Erik Rutins »

Regarding buildings as well - we do model the possibility of HE fire "penetrating" the building and affecting those inside at full effect. We do plan on having destructible buildings in the next release.
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by marcusm »

Nice. I am getting closer to buying :).

Wish there were more AAR.s and Youtube clips though. Makes it easier to judge the game.
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by rickier65 »

One big difference is the campaign mode for PCK. NOt only a campaign mode, but the ability to make both Random and your own custom designed campaigns.

I used RoBO's Quick Campaign for CMBB, but wven with his tools, it was a lot of work. With this system, the Random campaign can be done up it a snap, complete with briefings.

I was a latecomer to CMBB, but I got to enjoy it. I'm only starting with PCK (having decided to pass on PCOWS). But even though I"m still only 1/3rd of way through manual, I really like what I'm seeing so far.

The Platoon level order system at first bothered me, (not having COMPLETE control of individual squads or tanks), but the more I play the more I like it. I can still do some manueuver of squads (or tanks) but only within the parameters of the platoon orders and that seems to work pretty nice after all. Gives much more incentive to keep them together.

But like I said, I'm still methodically going through the manual, and playing the tutorials.

(well with breif excursion into the editors).

I'm liking this more the more time I spend with it).

Rick
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Prince of Eckmühl »

IMO, the PzC engine is easier to play, to just sit down and let her rip.

On the other hand, I think that PzC is harder to play well. This is true in part because the turn sequence is much more complex than that found in the CMx1 games. You really have to put some thought into an orders phase, knowing that your options in the reaction phase will be thusly restricted.

Then, there's the map/terrain...

For me, reading terrain in PzC is much more difficult than with the CMx1 games, lacking the older games tiled design. It's also worth noting, however, that this would appear to make the newer game not only more attractive, but, potentially, more "realistic" as well.

I'm enjoying Kharkov, BTW. And although I don't know if I have the patience to play it well, I still get a kick out of socking the ---- of them nasty old Reds. About all I need now is bigger maps and the Western Front. It's my sincerest hope for the game that it generate enough interest to make those possibilities a reality.

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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: marcusm
Nice. I am getting closer to buying :).
Wish there were more AAR.s and Youtube clips though. Makes it easier to judge the game.

Hey everyone, are any of you ready to post a new AAR yet? We need to convince Marcus. [:D]
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by marcusm »

That would be great :). Especially those with majority of infantry.

Might as well give the old demo a whirl. Should give me a good idea of how this plays out.
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Erik Rutins »

The old demo is... old, but it will give you some idea. I'm afraid it lacks all of the new stuff that's in Kharkov though, so I wouldn't use it to judge infantry.
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by jomni »

Infantry squads rended up to 5 men per squad (but no step loss)...
And no Big Heads.
[:D]
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by PDiFolco »

I have all 3 CM and 2 PzC ;)
Just a complementary notes on graphics and sounds :
- PzC graphics and models are *way* better than CM - the CM engine is really old, with "playmobil" soldiers and tanks models with very few polys by now counts.
- But CM sounds are imho still much better than PzC, which has very repetitive sounds (I think there's only one "soldier speech" per side..), and unimpressive, seemingly baffled,  fire/explosions sounds. Arty in PzC is really much less fearsome than in CM... I expect some sound modpack for PzC !


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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
- But CM sounds are imho still much better than PzC, which has very repetitive sounds (I think there's only one "soldier speech" per side..), and unimpressive, seemingly baffled,  fire/explosions sounds. Arty in PzC is really much less fearsome than in CM... I expect some sound modpack for PzC !

Thanks for the feedback. We've heard from several customers regarding the voices and that the sounds in general could be better. We'll see what we can do.
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by PDiFolco »

Hmm, I suspect that the fact of having only "generic" sound files (ie tank guns <60mm, 60 to 90mm etc) doesn't help sound immersion at all.
CM had specific unit/weapons sounds. CMBB has approx 2,300 soundfiles (!!!) to... 80 for PzCK !!! It's not the same league (with all due respect) [:-]
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by Erik Rutins »

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco
Hmm, I suspect that the fact of having only "generic" sound files (ie tank guns <60mm, 60 to 90mm etc) doesn't help sound immersion at all.
CM had specific unit/weapons sounds. CMBB has approx 2,300 soundfiles (!!!) to... 80 for PzCK !!! It's not the same league (with all due respect) [:-]

2300? Well, I certainly agree then. Individual sound files for each weapon is certainly something I'd like to do but it was not high on the development priority list. Perhaps if we at least add support for that it will enable those with time to do some sound mods until we expand the official sound library.
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RE: PzcK vs CMBB

Post by PDiFolco »

Well, just put a sound file tag in unit and weapons xml descriptions and wait for fans to help you make them&nbsp;[;)]
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