RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID!

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RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID!

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID!

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RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/21/2008 2:03:11 PM

JeffK

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From: In a little tin hut in a big tin shed
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Well done Historiker,

Makes the opening months more fun for the Allies and more worrysome for the japanese if you put in some attacks.

I like your approach to the USSR, gives him something else to think about.

Keep playing with his mind, one day he'll overreact and fall into an ambush!!

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 31

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/21/2008 3:17:23 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4714
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

Thank you!

If nothing is changeing in the PI area, I'll attack him there with my strong SAG with 1BB, 2BCs + many cruisers.
As I already told, I will use my ships, but I'll always care about their value. So I retreated the CV near Midway, as even the sinking of 10 more APs and AKs can never be worth the lost of a CV. As allied player, I can always be assure "I'll get them anyway, sooner or later!" If I were on the Japanese side, this would be totally different as the Japanese player has no choice but to sink everything possible to let the allied superiority begin a little later.
Concerning this, the Adelaide was used very offensively, as my only tactical concept for a slowly ship without heavy guns or at least heavy AAA is: use them as much and as long as they swim. They are to slowly for later intruder missions like bombardement or night attacks on enemy fleets, their guns are neglible for shore bombardement and their AAA isn't enough to provide considerable protection against ships.
Following this, my AMCs (=CLs in RHS) are also on runs into his territory. On the other hand, I evacuated all but two (which were sunk while fleeing) BBs from Pearl. They are slowly as well, but they'll get a mighty AAA and their guns will have much more worth in prepareing an amphibious mission than one of my "expandable CLs" can ever have even being in a transport group to protect the APs from coastal guns.

Instead, the other CAs have a great value for me. Especially as there's no respawning of cruisers and CVs in RHS, I always must consider that in RHS lost defently is lost. (In CHS I used both CVs and Cruisers very offensive [4 Carrier battles until July 42 in a PBEM], as I'll get them all back later). This ment, I did "hit and run" with them at Tarawa, Wake and Midway. One might think I should have been more greedy sinking his ships there, but if I started chasing his ships there, I might have lost them to Bettys.
I am prepared to loose my ships - but not on a mission with the only goal to sink one or two AK/APs...

Singapore
I already told, that I'll do "Sir Robin" at Singapore. I debated with Sid while trying to carmourflage the case we were talking about. I really intend to honor his "Do not do what they wouldn't have done" rule, but does that mean I'll have to do all their mistakes, too? I don't think so! So I will no longer evacuate militas off their territory until their surrender is imminent - but I will do with my regular troops whatever is usefull.

So the question is: What is defending Singapore good for?
Will I be able to hold it? No! He's human, no AI. If my defense is too strong, he'll simply ship in more or he can conquer everything around it and starve the city...
The only benefit I'll have then is buying some time - in most cases nor more than two to three weeks. While two or three weeks of delay may be very usefull, are they worth loosing around or over 1000 AV in several (good) brigades?
I think: Defenitly NO!
It's much more usefull evacuating the troops to another place where they may delay him, too - but without haveing to surrender when beaten! So I'll try to ship them to Burma to halt him there. If these troops get beaten there, they'll retreat to India, but I'll keep them.
I already told him that I'm going to do with my regular troops what makes a military sense despite political or prestige arguments, but I hope he will not be too disappointed finding Singapore nearly empty...

On the other hand, I think about reinforceing the Dutch Oilfields with other Dutch troops from Java. Even as Dutch forces (except their tanks) don't upgrade AFAIK, they will still keep some use even in later stages of war. They'll be week, of course, but week troops are always better than none.
But if I send them to the oilfields, I might have the chance that they destroy huge parts of the oilwells when they are beaten/surrender. Just imagine that I manage to reduce the oilfields just about 20% - shouldn't this be worth it?

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to JeffK)

Post #: 32

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/21/2008 5:57:23 PM

Elladan

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From: Swindon, UK
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Would it be worthwile? Not at all. There is much more oil produced on map then there is Japanese tankers to move them, destroying even a significant part of it will do nothing to help you win. If you can seriously damage his resource centres, that's a different story though.

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 33

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/21/2008 6:06:44 PM

Historiker

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From: Deutschland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elladan

Would it be worthwile? Not at all. There is much more oil produced on map then there is Japanese tankers to move them, destroying even a significant part of it will do nothing to help you win. If you can seriously damage his resource centres, that's a different story though.

I thought that Japan is already producing most of its needed ressources on the home islands?

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Elladan)

Post #: 34

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/21/2008 6:21:29 PM

Elladan

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Depends on the definition of "most". If it wants to expand though resource import is a must. The limiting factors in this are number of available AKs and the length of the route. So the best thing to do for allied strategic warfare is to destroy resources, preferably the closest ones to the Home Islands as this will force Japanese convoys to travel farther, increasing the risk for them and decreasing the import efficiency.

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 35

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/21/2008 7:14:48 PM

Mistmatz

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There is a significant benefit in delaying the fall of Singapore... it buys time to prepare against a potential seaborne invasion of Ceylon/India/Burma.

Although Japan can technically bypass Singapore and enter the strait of Malacca with surface vessels, I'd say it falls under the "Don't do what a real commander wouldn't have done" rule. Actually I believe the same is true for an allied commander, once the time arrives.

Nevertheless surface vessels have other options than Malacca strait. But this will take longer and should be significantly more dangerous as there are three big airfields (Palembang/Batavia and the Soerabaja cluster) to threaten them. Hard to shut them down all at the same time.

(in reply to Elladan)

Post #: 36

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/21/2008 7:56:22 PM

Historiker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz

There is a significant benefit in delaying the fall of Singapore... it buys time to prepare against a potential seaborne invasion of Ceylon/India/Burma.

Although Japan can technically bypass Singapore and enter the strait of Malacca with surface vessels, I'd say it falls under the "Don't do what a real commander wouldn't have done" rule. Actually I believe the same is true for an allied commander, once the time arrives.

Nevertheless surface vessels have other options than Malacca strait. But this will take longer and should be significantly more dangerous as there are three big airfields (Palembang/Batavia and the Soerabaja cluster) to threaten them. Hard to shut them down all at the same time.

That's true!
But imagine, what all the Malaya units may do in India. The ENG units allone will be VERY usefull whereever they are shipped as in this early stage, both engineer and aviation support units are very rare.
The most important point for me is, that whereever I ship them, they aren't lost in case of defeat - and I hate loosing a lot of men...

@Ellandan
I play against Sid. As Japan didn't expand its industry "because they were cut off from machine part supply" as Sid said once, he will not expand it.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Mistmatz)

Post #: 37

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/24/2008 1:31:07 AM

Historiker

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In the last two days not too much new things weren't happening.

China
He reinforced Nanchang heavily and seems to ship in even more troops. It may also be an amphibious invasion von ie CHangsa, so I'll prepare for that, too.

Malaya/DEI/PI
One Dutch sub was sunk, one Japanese was beaten but will survive. He is attacking my troopships from Singapore, but most of them will get through.
The P-40 seems to be even weaker in this scenario (as well as the P-38

). Whereever they meet even just Oscars, I have a very high loss rate.

Midway
He sent the Mini-KB to Midway. I have two CVs 2-3 days away and one more in about 7 days. ATM, I'll watch this and will maybe engage his troops there!

South Pacific
We'll see some surface action again tomorrow, I guess

Alaska
Cold Bay, Dutch Harbour and Umnak Island will recieve reinforcements in the next days. I'll build fortress first up to 3, I guess and after that, the infrastructure will be improved.

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/24/2008 2:19:18 AM >

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 38

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/26/2008 8:35:45 PM

Historiker

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12/14/41

I'm a little concerend whether Sid may quit the game, soon. He expects something totally different than what he gets.
He moans around that I don't do what he expects me to do...

I should leave my troops where they are, that he can knock them out one by one.
He complains that I don't defend northern Malaya - but what does he expect me to do? Should I leave one or two brigades there against some divisions? Surely not. So I should reinforce - if I don't do at least one of this, I ignore the RHS rules and corrupt the test...
So I may do what he wants. I may send additional troops north. I may concentrate my defenses at Khota Baru and Alor Star - and perhaps I'll even manage to hold the front. Great!
That's what he wants, so the test works fine...
But then he makes an amphibious assault at mersing, cuts off my troops in north, takes the only light defended Singapore and Malaya is lost.
Or I "deny [him] bases", as he wants me to do.
Well, he has made this mod. He knows exactly which troops are in which base. So he knows with how much to come to defeat me...

I refuse to do this. I really don't intend to ignore his rules, but if he wants the enemy to do what he wants, he should play against himself or the AI.
If you don't have an immense superiority that any tactic than simply "attack on broad front" can be ignored, the road to victory is to do exactly what I do: To do, what the enemy doesn't expect! Some of my actions may be wrong, of course, but the principle defenitly isn't!
In another game, I'm destrying a whole japanese front, so several enemy divisions - around 40 or more units - and that already in december 42. When it's done, my opponent will have to get every single man he can mobilize to stabilize the front. How did I acchieve it? I did what he expected last...

Let's see how Sid reacts when he realizes that Singapore is evacuated...

ok, but to war reports:
Malaya
He conquers the first bases north of Malaya. My forces from the Malayan peninsula are under way to get evacuated atm.

DEI
I think about to evacuate most of the DEI to concentrate my troops on two to three bases where I'll try to make a stand.

Solomones
He bombarded Rabaul and captured it the same day. I tried to attack his forces but didn't find them. I ordered my ships to Kavieng now as I hope I'll find his troops, there.

China
I don't know how, but suddenly, he has a unit north of Canton cutting off my supplies. I ordered a chinese division to attack this troops.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 39

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 4/28/2008 2:15:59 PM

Historiker

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From: Deutschland
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Good news!

I exchanged several messages with Sid where we argued about the game. I told him that I really intend to honor his rules, so he'll see no NZ-Militias invading Formosa, but I really don't have fun being forced to play in a way that isn't mine.
I know how incompetent I am in ground combat, so I have no choice but to do Brave Sir Robin - and he seems to have accepted. He won't get the game he intended, but he'll get a game and hopefully will enjoy it...

New Guinea
At Kavieng, my Cruiser-TF engaged two enemy TFs and sank both. Unfortunately, there were only 2 APs and one LCM and not the enemy Warships I was targeting at

THe AMC Westralia was attacked by enemy G3N from Rabaul which were only able to carry bombs because of the airfield size. Nevertheless, they put 5 bombs into the ship and it's most unlikely she'll survive. Doesn't mind, one more useless ship lost, then.

DEI
He contunies to sink AKs

Midway
He continues to land forces, and again, some carrierplanes attacked the Island. Calculating the number of planes, I expect the CVLs to be there. So it seems to be the time for our first Carrier battle! I ordered the two available CVs from Dutch Harbour to engage the enemy. THe'll be at Midway in 2-3 days.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to JeffK)

Post #: 40

More tactical Victories! - 4/29/2008 2:04:27 AM

Historiker

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We obviously have the sync-bug. In my combat replay, the Westralia was heavily damaged, while IRL she's unharmed.
News from Sid - as you see, my plan of forcing him to react on me rather than vice versa worked absolutly fine!

quote:

I found your raid on Kavieng very exciting -
but I do regret you have (so far) got away with it because it was reckless to put such valuable ships so near to enemy air bases and the finest surface action group in the IJA (which you must have noticed bombarding Rabaul).

Having survived - under an umbrella of air recon and bombers - and having achieved multiple
tactical victories - I fear your tendency to do reckless things may be reinforced.

I will say you achieved more than it appears in terms of impacts:

I turned around more than half a dozen convoys inbound for the area - just in case you don't retire in an expected or even sane direction - and I will forever be assigning too many sortees to recon - and too many ships to escort - just in case. So these are invisible dividends which reviewers of the action will not notice - but which impact the efficiency of the opposing side.
Notwithstanding the combination of both of these with tactical successes (plural) - the raid is reckless - and I see why you said you don't worry about victory point totals.

Planned Actions
As far the the AMC=CLs can't be used to raid at enemy unguarded landing sites - which seems to be over now - they are used to defend likely targets. That means I'll send them to bases like Attu, Shortlands, Tulagi, etc.
The USS Enterprise and the USS Lexington are on their way to attack the CVL-KB at Midway. The USS Saratoga will join them after getting refuled at Dutch Harbour in 3 days.
As enemy Landing fleets were spotted heading southwest at Great Natura Island, the TF 1000 with PoW, Repulse, de Zeven Provinzien + CAs and CLs runs at full speed to Soerabaja to refuel and will be in range to attack within 3-4 days.
After bombing Changsa for 3 days in a row, the airfield is shut down. As 4 Vildebeest attacked enemy CAs near Canton (scoring no hits) from Hengchow airfield, I expect him to bomb this airfield now. So I've ordered 178 fighters there! Many of them are just I-16, I-152 and P-36, but the shere number should have some impact, if he does what I expect...
The Cruiser TF in the New Britain area will raid Rabaul tonight an then head full speed for southern Australia.

Australia
To keep a foot in the door of DEI, it seem to be most important to hold at least one island north of Australia. Timor seems to be the best choice for that, but this has pros and cons:
Pro:
- Southern Borneo and Java are within range of even smaller bombers (important argument)
- It will have three airfields with the max. size of two times 6 and one 5. This means it seems very difficult to shut it down completely. (important)

Cons:
- I have no idea how I should be able to gather enough troops to protect all the three bases on Timor.
- It's quite far away. The shortest range is 8 between Derby and Koepang. This means that both supply and fresh troops have to be flown in by patrol planes, not by transports!
- the huge distance makes it difficult both to supply the Island and to reinforce or evacuate the troops
- Timor can be entered via Vetar Island and Poti Island. In theory, this means two more bases to defend - impossible!

Another option would be Kai Island (and Tenimbar Island)
Kai Island is undeveloped, yet, but it can have a port of size 4 and airfield of size 5. It's 8 hexes off Darwin, but if I improve the installations at Murgemella, I'll have only 5 hexes to Kai Island.
Occupying the island will allow me to controll the Arafura Sea and unter LBA-Fighter cover, I'll be able to ship troops to southern New Guinea. There are some bases which can have airfields of size 4 and both Fakfak and Babo are only 5 more hexes away from Kai. This two bases can have airfields 5...

To protect Northern Australia in the case of this "keeping a foot in his door", two Australian Divisions were ordered to march to Darwin. If I am successfull in defending an Island off the coast, I would try to conquer Northern Australia to cut the Island off, if I were him. This two divisions will be there to help avoiding this.

Any suggestions?

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/29/2008 2:09:11 AM >

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to JeffK)

Post #: 41

RE: More tactical Victories! - 4/29/2008 9:38:45 AM

KERENSKY

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Hum, making a stand at Timor will be hard as you didn't fight anywhere else and thus the Japanese will be able to concentrate all his unscathed forces on you.

Problem of going Robin is that it go both way. The attacker too are in perfect shape and it capture fully operational industry/ressource, airfields and ports that help him mount follow on attack faster and easier.

Also your troups have no time to build up preparation points, so they fight on even foot with pursuers... or worse.

I fear you flee too far too fast to be able to cramp on something as near as him as Timor...

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 42

RE: More tactical Victories! - 4/29/2008 9:46:00 PM

Historiker

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From: Deutschland
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Well, that's a double edged sword.
If I delay him, I loose a massive amount of troops - troops that I can't use later to reinforce the Islands off Australia.
But you are right, it will be very difficult to hold a position off Australia without haveing slowered him. The troops will be more usefull guarding and developing the big numbers of bases in northern Australia.
When they are developed, I will be able to base significant airpower there, which will allow me to take the bases off Australia earlier.

As Midway will be lost, soon, the next important base under serious danger and not given up, yet. I will report reguarly the status of Pearl Harbour:

Pearl Harbour at 12/15/41:
Service Damage: 13
Supplies: 70562
Infantry: 6155
Vehicles: 449
Guns: 1850
Assault Strength: 616

As the AO which was left in Pearl was able to leave unharmed, there might be a chance to send new supplies. I'll try this with three blockade runners that can run 15 or more knots.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to KERENSKY)

Post #: 43

RE: More tactical Victories! - 5/4/2008 12:39:14 AM

Historiker

Posts: 4714
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

12/15/42

PI
AK Matsukawa hits a sub layed mine at Lingayen

China
My forces at Canton were bombarded by 4CAs + DD escorts, Nanchang was also bombarded by 2CAs and 2CLAAs. I bet he sends his old CAs in there without escorts, so I'll send some subs into the Janktse. This may be a nice surprise for him

Two own air attacks on the forces at Nanchang were quite useless.

DEI
The CL Manoora, an british AMC is one more of my "useless ships". Consequently, I've sent her to Brunei thinking he might not expect some of ships there. For an unknown reason, he had a sub there putting two fishes into my poor converted Transport. Nevertheless, it was still able to sink the DM Hatsutake, whic appeared at Brunei the same day.
Two Jap AKs hit mines at Singkaweng

Pearl Harbour
A Japanese Air attack escorted by Me109 had the result of 9 destroyed fighters and 2 destroyed bombers while 2 Helens hit the botton in return. An own attack on enemy CLs ended similar, as it was intercepted by enemy CAP

New Guinea and Solomones
Several enemy airstrikes hit my cruiser TF near New Britain, but my calculations prooved right. As the airfield is only 3, he wasn't able to launch his planes with torpedoes. So despite a high sysdamage of up to 81, none of the cruisers is in danger of sinking (atm). But there are several enemy subs detected on the road to Australia, as well as an enemy SAG that seems to chase my cruisers.

More tomorrow...

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 44

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 5/4/2008 2:49:15 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4714
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From: Deutschland
Status: offline

My Cruisers fleeing to New Caledonia to avoid enemy subs and SAG:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Historiker -- 5/4/2008 3:32:24 PM >

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to JeffK)

Post #: 45

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 5/4/2008 2:55:20 PM

Historiker

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Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

Gaining Initiative again: Two of my CVs should arrive at Midway next turn to attack whatever is there. I expect the CVL-KB and several Cruisers.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 46

RE: Historiker(A) vs. El Cid (J) RHS-EBO NO SID! - 5/6/2008 11:37:14 AM

JeffK

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From: In a little tin hut in a big tin shed
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Huh, looking at the latest map I see you are playing in Sids World!!

Re; Timor, take note of his email to you, he has begun to react to your threats.
If you are not strong enough to hold/take Timor you could force him to overcommit his defenders, 3-4 or more IJA Divs here should be better used elsewhere. Also taking/holding the Sandwich islands could see him struggle elsewhere.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 47

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