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How about a new unit?

 
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How about a new unit? - 4/5/2008 4:19:17 AM   
Borst50

 

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I am having another brain fart here....so please bare with me. For those of you who have ever seen the BBC series "World at War:, I direct this comment to you. I remember an interview done with an old 8th Army veteran where he describes his experiences in North Africa. I am going to paraphrase here as I do not remember his direct quote;

"...the Gerries always seemed to deny us the battlefield. Our equipment had to come just as far as their, yet they seemed to value it more..." or something to that effect.

How about a Tank Recovery Unit? To help add replacements for a DCG or a LCG. The unit will go into a hex where tanks have been destroyed, and attempt to tow them away...even destroyed allied tanks, I think this unit could possibly add 1 sp of replacement over time in addition to normal replacements. Although I can see a downside to this. it would bog down the game as players would have to spend time running back and forth hauling tank carcasses to the rear. Then we get into the problem of heavier tanks. I remember reading that the only way to haul a tiger from the battlefield was to use another tiger. A unit far to heavy for standard recovery vehicles of the time.

Anyway, I opened this thread up for general discussion.
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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/5/2008 4:43:37 AM   
Geomitrak


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Hmmm...interesting. Not sure whether its possible, but interesting nonetheless.

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/5/2008 9:11:39 PM   
andym


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Dont forget the NAAFI Armoured Tea Wagon as well,it could increase the troops morale by the odd point..................................

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/5/2008 10:43:37 PM   
The Plodder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: andym

Dont forget the NAAFI Armoured Tea Wagon as well,it could increase the troops morale by the odd point..................................


or reduce it if they forgot the sugar....

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/6/2008 12:33:34 AM   
Borst50

 

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UGGGHHH! Tea? You mean people actually drink that stuff? Whatever happened to coffee? Oh...and forget the Scones....

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/6/2008 1:15:59 AM   
tide1212


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How do civilized people take their tea ? with or without milk ? This is an important social question that needs asking.

tide1212

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/6/2008 1:37:45 AM   
andym


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tide1212

How do civilized people take their tea ? with or without milk ? This is an important social question that needs asking.

tide1212



Ahhh,now that depends on the kind of Tea.If its Earl Grey then sugar is permissable and a slice of Lemon is acceptable,milk however shows one to be a heathen uncultured Churl!Like wise Lapsang Souchong(you know the one that tastes like burnt books)sugar, but no milk.A Breakfast Tea also a "Builders Tea" MUST be brewed for a min of 5 mins so you cant see the bottom of the cup or a spoon in it.If the spoon stand up unaided all the better,but it MUST have at least 2 spoons of sugar and the merest of hints of milk,i suggest wafting the milk bottle over the surface.


Coffee on the other hand is for the uncultured,provincial,and positivly Colonial amongst us!it is the Spawn of the Devil and must be shunned at every turn!

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/6/2008 2:48:39 AM   
Ladmo

 

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I love coffee, the sort of methamphetamine of the breakfast beverage world, especially if it is brewed to a black sludge in my grandfather's Marine issue pot on an open fire. Two cups of that stuff and you think you are a Sherman M4

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/7/2008 12:10:19 AM   
Arctic Blast


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I am a coffee drinker (love my dark roast), but occasionally partake in a little tea. No milk, and I use honey rather than sugar.

Oh, and nothing wrong with scones.


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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/7/2008 1:57:36 AM   
Borst50

 

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after a couple of cups of the "sludge" I drink, an M4 a ****cat.....course, i have to drink it that way if i am to be awake on the roofs i shingle. Cant afford to fall off....i dont bounce as good as I used to.

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/7/2008 2:00:03 PM   
Geomitrak


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ladmo
Two cups of that stuff and you think you are a Sherman M4


What...thin skinned with a feeble weapon ?

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/7/2008 7:51:18 PM   
vadersson


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Tea of course!  Perferable Earl Grey, though a properly brewed Darjeeling is excellent.  Never use any sugar or milk, but lemon is occasionaly a nice change in the Earl Grey.  If you can find a green tea that does not taste like lawn clippings, more power to you.

Thanks,
Duncan



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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/7/2008 9:05:41 PM   
pbear

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Borst50

I am having another brain fart here....so please bare with me. For those of you who have ever seen the BBC series "World at War:, I direct this comment to you. I remember an interview done with an old 8th Army veteran where he describes his experiences in North Africa. I am going to paraphrase here as I do not remember his direct quote;

"...the Gerries always seemed to deny us the battlefield. Our equipment had to come just as far as their, yet they seemed to value it more..." or something to that effect.

How about a Tank Recovery Unit? To help add replacements for a DCG or a LCG. The unit will go into a hex where tanks have been destroyed, and attempt to tow them away...even destroyed allied tanks, I think this unit could possibly add 1 sp of replacement over time in addition to normal replacements. Although I can see a downside to this. it would bog down the game as players would have to spend time running back and forth hauling tank carcasses to the rear. Then we get into the problem of heavier tanks. I remember reading that the only way to haul a tiger from the battlefield was to use another tiger. A unit far to heavy for standard recovery vehicles of the time.

Anyway, I opened this thread up for general discussion.


Actually this could be a battle in itself, IRL there were times when recovery units bumped into each other and fought it out to see who kept the wrecked and abandoned tanks.


< Message edited by pbear -- 4/7/2008 9:06:43 PM >

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/8/2008 4:37:46 AM   
Borst50

 

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well...if i read Jason's post on 1.03 correctly, it does seem there will be tank recovery units in the new senarios, how this is going to affect gameplay is open for speculation. Then there is the question of DCG's and LCG's...obviously....not in the established CG's can we expect recovery units....but that opens the possibility of new DCG, or can we add them via campaign editors? If so...do we get additional sp's as replacements? And the questions go on. To wit: The tamks we haul off via recovery units...is this considered battlefield repair? Are we able to replace lost sp's immediately? or do we have to wait until the next battle to add replacements? And that is...if there even replacements at all....we still dont know yet the extent of their uses.

You see where I am going with this.

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/8/2008 4:51:57 AM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Borst50

well...if i read Jason's post on 1.03 correctly, it does seem there will be tank recovery units in the new senarios, how this is going to affect gameplay is open for speculation. Then there is the question of DCG's and LCG's...obviously....not in the established CG's can we expect recovery units....but that opens the possibility of new DCG, or can we add them via campaign editors? If so...do we get additional sp's as replacements? And the questions go on. To wit: The tamks we haul off via recovery units...is this considered battlefield repair? Are we able to replace lost sp's immediately? or do we have to wait until the next battle to add replacements? And that is...if there even replacements at all....we still dont know yet the extent of their uses.

You see where I am going with this.


The units you noticed in the above thread will only remove wrecks. No more, no less.

Jason Petho


< Message edited by Jason Petho -- 4/8/2008 4:52:53 AM >


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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/8/2008 5:22:19 AM   
Borst50

 

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Yes..I do understand...however....aside from removing blockage or disruption of line of sight...what use are tamk recovery vehicles? My orginal thought was to add replacements....for DCG's or LCG's especially if one has made a bad command decision and taken more losses than was meant to....obiviously, for certain nationalities replacements will dwindle...while for others they will increase....depending on the year, nationality....etc.....so it begs the question....."what were recovery veheciles meant to do?"

in my opinion...to haul dead tanks from the battlefield for repair...and eventual reassignment to the front...or in lieu of that...to cannalbalize parts for units that could be repaired. So by logical extension...one should recieve additional replacements for armoured units/vehicles for these respective recoveries.

In any event...that was where I was going with the orginal thread. Wether or not this is feasible within the context of the game remains open. Perhaps it can be worked out. Anyway....something to think about.

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/9/2008 8:47:11 PM   
pbear

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Borst50

Yes..I do understand...however....aside from removing blockage or disruption of line of sight...what use are tamk recovery vehicles? My orginal thought was to add replacements....for DCG's or LCG's especially if one has made a bad command decision and taken more losses than was meant to....obiviously, for certain nationalities replacements will dwindle...while for others they will increase....depending on the year, nationality....etc.....so it begs the question....."what were recovery veheciles meant to do?"

in my opinion...to haul dead tanks from the battlefield for repair...and eventual reassignment to the front...or in lieu of that...to cannalbalize parts for units that could be repaired. So by logical extension...one should recieve additional replacements for armoured units/vehicles for these respective recoveries.

In any event...that was where I was going with the orginal thread. Wether or not this is feasible within the context of the game remains open. Perhaps it can be worked out. Anyway....something to think about.

Are vehical replacments based on points? If so then so many points in recovered tanks would result in more vehical replacements which would make recovering tanks a very battle worthy objective.

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/10/2008 2:25:14 AM   
Borst50

 

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I agree, a very worthy objective. I am not sure on the figures for recovery rates vs, return to the field, but off the top of my head....if recovery vehicles are capable of a 2 sp per turn recovery, then just for the sake of agrument....after 10 sp's recovered, that could translate into a single sp being returned to the front, either immediately as battlefield repair, or several battles later in addition to any normal replacements recieved. Of course the ratio of recovered sp's to replacemnt sp's can be changed....to whatever is accurate for the period.

In any event, I think its worth thinking about and hopefully we may see it for 1.04. Who knows?

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/10/2008 10:35:25 AM   
Mraah

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mraah
I was thinking along the same lines as you with regards to having them in a DCG. However, they are a few problems.

First, SP's can also translate into loss infantry SP or transport SP. These are not wrecks, per say, to be recovered. But, if they kept track of infantry SP loss
and provided replacements on your 10:1 cleanup then it would work.

Also, when it comes to the replacement screen, it will show us which replacements "SP type" is available, like 3 (1) showing us 4 replacements available and 1 can be used for infantry, or vice-versa.

Rob


Oh, I forgot ... the 3rd problem ... Currently the game doesn't keep track of which wrecks belong to whom ... I suppose it would need to do that!

Rob

< Message edited by Mraah -- 4/10/2008 8:03:44 PM >

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/10/2008 7:43:06 PM   
andym


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How about we have a Kettenrad unit?Usefull as a recon patrol and fast reaction unit to plug the odd small gap.

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/10/2008 7:54:45 PM   
Jason Petho


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quote:

ORIGINAL: andym

How about we have a Kettenrad unit?Usefull as a recon patrol and fast reaction unit to plug the odd small gap.


'Tis included with 1.03.

Jason Petho



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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/11/2008 5:59:48 PM   
pbear

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mraah


Oh, I forgot ... the 3rd problem ... Currently the game doesn't keep track of which wrecks belong to whom ... I suppose it would need to do that!

Rob


Not really, German Shermans, and Matilda's were not uncommon, and there were even American Panthers. The accounting is kept because the program does know how many tanks each side lost, having this set in the scenerion (or retained from a previous game) would mean that you could never repair more tanks than the number you have lost.


< Message edited by pbear -- 4/11/2008 6:01:20 PM >

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RE: How about a new unit? - 4/12/2008 1:39:53 AM   
Borst50

 

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Yes, you are correct, there were even Russian Tigers floating around out there. However, I was not intending on over complicating the system. I believe, the way the game is set up, the answer is relatively simple. The sp's recovered and eventually returned to the front should be "generic" sp's. For the player to allocate as he/she sees fit. Taht eliminates the need to differwentiate between replacement types. (armour vs infantry) If that means the 10:1 ratio is changed so be it. I did not intend to have panzer battalions running around with shermansd or T-34's, rather to just add replacements for losses.

I guess what I am saying is I bellieve in the KISS principle. All the game has to do is keep track of the number of tanks recovered, and that is the base number for eventual replacement sp's. Wether or not replacement appear right away of several battles down the line, is irrelevant. In a long DCG like the 3 Barbarossa campaigns, this could prove critical, in a short campaign, it probably wont affect the over all outcome that much....but any addition is welcome.

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