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Malta 1940 Revisited

 
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Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/26/2008 12:46:21 AM   
High Krausen


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Hello all,

a while back I designed a June 1940 scenario covering an Italian only invasion of Malta. It runs fine when playing axis, but crashes at 0430 on the first day when playing as allied. The scenario starts at 0330 and the first round of Italian reinforcements arrive at 0430 (some sabotage companies start on map for the axis). I never really got beyond noticing that error when RL got in the way. Now with the new patch I started looking at it again and realize I still don't know why I get that error. I would greatly appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable than I could take a look at it and see if they can spot the issue. In fact Dave (Arjuna)offered that service a while back and I sent him the files, but it must have gotten lost in the shuffle. Anyhoo, post here or email highkrausen(at)knology(dot)net and I'll send the file...Thanks in advance

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/26/2008 1:43:46 AM   
Arjuna


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Sorry...you are right about it slipping under my radar.

Do you still get the error with the new Patch 3?

If so, please email me the files to support[at]panthergames[dot]com and I'll take a look.

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/26/2008 2:27:48 AM   
High Krausen


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Yep, I still get the error, with patch 3. Will send files in a bit, and thanks

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/26/2008 5:12:14 AM   
Arjuna


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HK,

I've checked out your scenario. I have some good news and some bad news, depending on which way you look at it.

First off, the Allies have a Malta Command HQ but it never appears. Hence the senior Bn HQ ends up as the onMapBoss and is overloaded. This will mean excessive orders delay for the allied units - not good. I would start the Malta Command HQ on map at start. This is a Div HQ. Alas there are no Bde HQs to help share the staff load. I would add a Devonshire Bde HQ and a Malta Bde HQ and subordinate the Bns under them. In short your force needs some structure.

A good rule to follow is that if you bring on a second Bn of a Bde, also bring on the Bde HQ at that time.

So you need to review your force structure and your reinforcement arrivals.

As to the crash, well you will be pleased to know that this is not your fault. In fact it is a bug in our program. It would appear it does not cater for the rare occurance of when the distance to the nearest enemy and to the nearest friendly from an objective is exactly equal. So it ends up dividing by zero. This causes the crash. I'm reviewing options here and will get back to you.

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/26/2008 6:14:59 AM   
Arjuna


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HK,

One other thing I noticed is that you have linked various objectives. Indeed it is in the code that handles these that the problem exists. But in any event, I did note that you had the three major docks as linked objectives. I would recommend that they not be linked. By linking objectives you are saying that any one of them will suffice - ie it is a logical OR. However, I would propose that Valetta, being the central dock, is ground of tactical importance ( TGI ). In other words, if the enemy holds this position it makes your position untenable. Indeed the same could almost be said for the two flanking docks in regard to Valetta. So really you need to secure all three. Hence they are logical ANDs not ORs and so I would not link them.

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/26/2008 6:25:18 AM   
Arjuna


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HK,

Another thing that comes to mind about your placement of the Italian Sabotage Platoons. You have placed these one per beachhead in all of the reinforcement schedules. Each one of these schedules favours a certain beachhead - a nice touch! I would have thought that the sabatage platoons should be concentrated more. I would have three of them ( ie half ) land at the selected beachhead and then use the remaining three as diversions, either concentrating them on one of the other beaches of spreading them out amongst two or three.


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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/26/2008 3:11:40 PM   
High Krausen


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Hi Arjuna,

Thanks for the info, I'll get on changes...but life with a 16 month old limits time...hopefully in a few days. Will test solitaire and repost if issues still exist.

HK

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/26/2008 3:45:32 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

HK,

Another thing that comes to mind about your placement of the Italian Sabotage Platoons. You have placed these one per beachhead in all of the reinforcement schedules. Each one of these schedules favours a certain beachhead - a nice touch! I would have thought that the sabatage platoons should be concentrated more. I would have three of them ( ie half ) land at the selected beachhead and then use the remaining three as diversions, either concentrating them on one of the other beaches of spreading them out amongst two or three.



Do these represent the San Marco commandos included in the old Avalon Hill Malta game?

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/26/2008 4:05:43 PM   
High Krausen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

Do these represent the San Marco commandos included in the old Avalon Hill Malta game?


Actually no, the sabotage teams Arjuna refers to represent an assumption on my part, and are represented by 8 platoon sized units assumed to be inserted by submarine prior to the invasion

The actual San Marco Marines are in this scenario, but consisted of only one battalion at this point in the war (June 1940)

< Message edited by High Krausen -- 3/26/2008 4:06:10 PM >


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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/27/2008 3:14:36 AM   
High Krausen


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OK Arjuna, Changes made, added additional HQs, checked reinforcements...the Docks were already unlinked as they were assigned a link value of '0'. The CTD still exists.

You said
quote:

It would appear it does not cater for the rare occurance of when the distance to the nearest enemy and to the nearest friendly from an objective is exactly equal. So it ends up dividing by zero.


Could this be rectified by moving the objectives just a bit to get away from the division by zero problem?

It appears that it does not fix the problem, I just tried it to no avail.

Thanks again for your time and help with this issue.

Regards,

HK

< Message edited by High Krausen -- 3/27/2008 3:27:25 AM >


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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/27/2008 3:38:36 AM   
Arjuna


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It uses a concentration grid, which is 300m. So you wopuld need to move the friendly or enemy or objective 300m.

I have made a fix here and am testing it now. This will take a few days to confirm. I'll be back in touch then.

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 3/27/2008 4:32:11 AM   
High Krausen


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excellent...thanks again for your support

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/10/2008 12:56:33 AM   
simovitch


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HK - We have been giving your scenario a run through behind the scenes and we have a couple of general suggestions for your next version:

1. It's far too easy for the Axis to win. Going on memory here... the Axis have the possibility of about 17000 VP but only need 5000 to get the requisite 100%. As a rule of thumb you need to push that close to 2/3rds or around 12000 points for 100%. Review the Allied total as well.

2. We have also seen the allies lay down their arms by day 4. Maybe either shorten the game or put some serious supply constraints on the Axis, like priority=15% and bring on only 1 base (the Corps base) on the second day. I think maybe this will model a beachhead situation better.

3. I may be playing an older version, but make sure you bring on a Division HQ before the 2nd Regiment HQ shows up, etc.

Otherwise this looks like it could be a great scenario! - it was fun to play.

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/10/2008 1:15:33 AM   
High Krausen


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Hi Simovitch,

thanks for the suggestions...will work to incorporate them...VPs was a shot in the dark for me...and the scenario has yet to see (until your efforts) any serious testing.

thanks again for your efforts

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/11/2008 5:03:16 AM   
High Krausen


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Hey Simovitch,

I have revised the Malta 1940 scenario based on your comments, and those of Arjuna earlier. If you would like a copy of the updated scenario to test, just drop me a note. There is still the outstanding CTD error when playing as the Brits that Arjuna was looking into...I'll give him a few more days before I bug him again...thanks for your feedback

HK


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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/11/2008 11:34:07 AM   
Arjuna


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We've fixed that one HK. A new COTA Patch 4 Build 3.4.151 is currently out being tested at the moment.

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/11/2008 4:26:14 PM   
High Krausen


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quote:

We've fixed that one HK


Cool Beans, Thanks...I appreciate the effort and all the feedback

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/11/2008 8:34:13 PM   
simovitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: High Krausen

Hey Simovitch,

I have revised the Malta 1940 scenario based on your comments, and those of Arjuna earlier. If you would like a copy of the updated scenario to test, just drop me a note. There is still the outstanding CTD error when playing as the Brits that Arjuna was looking into...I'll give him a few more days before I bug him again...thanks for your feedback

HK


Have you alpha-tested it all the way through with at least one side yet?

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/11/2008 10:10:26 PM   
High Krausen


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quote:

Have you alpha-tested it all the way through with at least one side yet?


of course not , that would be the sensible and reasonable thing to do

actually I've been using the limited free time I have working on a Brevity Scenario...I'll see what I can do over the weekend.

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/12/2008 3:21:34 PM   
JeF


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Hi,

I was playing the scenario with latest beta recently.

Here are two screenshots of what can be called a stubborn defense : a single men, manning his Bren gun, nearly out of ammunition, defending Fort Spinola. Needless to say he surrendered some minutes after the screenshots were taken, but not without giving the Italians a good run for their money.

Enjoy,

JeF.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/12/2008 3:22:44 PM   
JeF


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Here are the details. 69 bullets to go. This ain't much.

JeF.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/15/2008 3:52:54 AM   
Deathtreader


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

We've fixed that one HK. A new COTA Patch 4 Build 3.4.151 is currently out being tested at the moment.


Hi,

Any details as to the balance of this patch's content??

Rob.

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/15/2008 1:51:07 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeF

Here are the details. 69 bullets to go. This ain't much.

JeF.






Don't forget the tin of Bully Beef represented by the "2" basics!

Just enough for a good meal when the bullets run out.

Did I say "good" meal.....never mind....

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RE: Malta 1940 Revisited - 4/16/2008 2:04:29 AM   
Arjuna


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Rob,

Thye patch 4 will simply have updated Game, ScenMaker and MapMaker apps that fix the two issues identified...nothing more.

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Still CTDs - 4/30/2008 3:32:52 AM   
High Krausen


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Hey Arjuna,

I know you just got busy with some paying work but I still get a CTD with the new patch when playing this scenario as allies. It occurs consistently at 0430 on the first day. I have modified the scenario a bit, based on your suggestions of 3/25, but this CTD has been the same throughout the scenario development process...any thoughts?...how can I make troubleshooting this easier for you? Do you need a fresh copy of the scenario? Thanks in advance


< Message edited by High Krausen -- 4/30/2008 3:33:58 AM >


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RE: Still CTDs - 4/30/2008 5:15:42 AM   
Arjuna


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What error message do you get?

Is this happening from a saved game or from a fresh start?

If a saved game, can you confirm that it does happen from a fresh start?

If not, was the saved game created from before Patch 4? If so, it is corrupt.

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RE: Still CTDs - 4/30/2008 3:02:57 PM   
High Krausen


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Error message is:  AppName: cota.exe AppVer: 0.0.0.0      ModName: cota.exe ModVer: 0.0.0.0       Offset: 00005dea  It's from a fresh start not a save.
If that's not what you need, please advise.

and thanks for your continued support



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RE: Still CTDs - 4/30/2008 3:50:32 PM   
Arjuna


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OK those Windows messages don't mean much, just the memory address on your computer that caused the crash. Please send me a copy of your latest scenario. Please refresh my memory, is 0430 the start of the scenario? If not please also send me a save game taken a few minutes befor 0430. Thanks.

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Post #: 28
Files sent - 5/1/2008 12:56:24 AM   
High Krausen


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Scenario and Map file sent to you via email

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RE: Files sent - 5/1/2008 2:10:06 AM   
Arjuna


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JIm,

I have it, thanks. I'll try and get to this soon but am flat chat at the moment. Please give me a nudge if I have not got back to you in a week.

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