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Ottawa gets CFL team...

 
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Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/25/2008 10:45:26 PM   
David Winter

 

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Ottawa back in the CFL.

Well sort of. It's a conditional franchise based around the ownership group getting the stadium rebuilt. While it's good news, Halifax has had a conditional franchise since 1984 based on a stadium and we're all still waiting for that one...

http://www.cfl.ca/index.php?module=newser&func=display&nid=23305
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RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/25/2008 10:55:20 PM   
WallysWorld


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The league just wasn't the same without Ottawa. Now the Bombers can move back to the West where they belong.

(in reply to David Winter)
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RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/26/2008 12:37:17 AM   
Marauders

 

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The CFL should try to bring in two teams at a time for scheduling balance.  If Halifax doesn't get moving, would Quebec City be an option?

It would be nice if the Canadian government would help some of the cities build stadiums - not fund them entirely, but help out.  This isn't like the NFL, where players sign contracts for $90 million.

(in reply to WallysWorld)
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RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/26/2008 12:48:55 AM   
David Winter

 

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Quebec City would be the best choice if there was a stadium. That's the biggest hold up with getting more CFL teams. You need stadiums of at the absolute minimum seating of 25,000 seats and 30-35k to make any sort of worth while profit. And there simply are none left in the country. Anytime any public figure or developer brings up the idea of building a 35k seat sports stadium there's huge uproars about not spending that money in the health care system....it drives me up the wall but anyway...

The province of Quebec has a large minor football program and there is a strong grass roots level interest in Canadian football. A team in Quebec city would do very well.. if only they'd build a suitable stadium.

You could expand St Mary's stadium in Halifax only if you knocked down a facility building that butts up against one side of the field. I lived in the Halifax area for a couple of years and a new CFL sized stadium was always the hot potato. To make it viable you need to cover it so it can be used all year long as a convention centre or for concerts. That adds more expense and again.. people want to use the money for other things.


(in reply to Marauders)
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RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/26/2008 1:18:23 AM   
Marauders

 

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Canada doesn't have the huge population for revenue that the United States has, but one would believe that mid size stadiums would be regional centers for other events as well.  I am not one to have cities pay for what league have the money to do, but if Canada is serious about having the CFL be a nationwide league with greater representation than it does now, some of these cities need some help.

On a side note, does Hamilton have the television rights to London and Windsor?

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RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/26/2008 11:58:14 AM   
Arctic Blast


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There is no way I would be cool with Ottawa receiving tax money for yet ANOTHER friggin' team. Now, a new market, a Halifax, or a Quebec City, THAT I could support. Enough with Ottawa, though...it's like the NFL STILL talking about going back to LA. They don't want you!


_____________________________

Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily.

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RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/26/2008 7:55:06 PM   
David Winter

 

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The idea with this group is to turn over the land to the developers and let them build whatever it is they're going to build. Then tax them. The developers own the team, the stadium, the parking, the hockey arena (which is attached to the building), etc.. and get all the revenue, and then the city gets their property taxes.

(in reply to Arctic Blast)
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RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/27/2008 11:18:45 PM   
VCFL Commish


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Well the Maritimes already has a team in the CFL the Edmonton Eskimos. Theres so many Nova Scotians out there now in Alberta.The money is not there for a staduim in Halifax .The government is looking at a bridge to go between Dartmouth and Halifax I think its a billion dollar project 2016 finish date.When we loss the chance for the Commonwealth games we lost our chance to get a team here.The timing is all wrong for a CFL team here.The best model for us would be what they did in Regina building it up gradually.Pieceing it together until what they have now.The CFL is to big for that now,I think even Regina would have a hard time getting a team now if they had to start from scratch.
The Windsor idea intreaged me.Were the team would play out of the pontiac silver dome.I believe with some alterations a CFL field would have fit into it.The team would have been registered in Windsor to get around American Labour laws.The only major problem I could see it was the Gliebermans proposing it.

(in reply to David Winter)
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RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/28/2008 5:17:41 PM   
WallysWorld


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That Commonwealth Games bid fiasco by Halifax, what a huge black eye that was for the city and province. I was hoping that Halifax would have got the game and they probably would have since Canada hasn't hosted the Games since 1994 in Victoria. But now what major sporting organization would want to take a chance on Halifax?

Frankly I see Quebec City (an ownership group is already in place) and London getting CFL teams in the near future.

< Message edited by WallysWorld -- 3/28/2008 5:18:51 PM >

(in reply to VCFL Commish)
Post #: 9
RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/28/2008 7:48:26 PM   
Marauders

 

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quote:

The Windsor idea intreaged me.Were the team would play out of the pontiac silver dome.I believe with some alterations a CFL field would have fit into it.The team would have been registered in Windsor to get around American Labour laws.The only major problem I could see it was the Gliebermans proposing it.

quote:

Frankly I see Quebec City (an ownership group is already in place) and London getting CFL teams in the near future.


Does Hamilton have a large enough base if London or Windsor received a team?

(in reply to WallysWorld)
Post #: 10
RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/29/2008 8:06:20 AM   
David Winter

 

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Windsor would likely draw more from Detroit than from Hamilton.

(in reply to Marauders)
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RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 3/29/2008 8:07:16 AM   
WallysWorld


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders
Does Hamilton have a large enough base if London or Windsor received a team?


I think so. But I don't know how many people from London or Kitchener go to Ti-Cat games.

London has the University of Western Ontario's football stadium which can be expanded and is pretty new.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 12
RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 4/6/2008 8:16:34 AM   
Marauders

 

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quote:

Windsor would likely draw more from Detroit than from Hamilton.


The draw is important, but the it isn't as important as the market.  Kitchener/Waterloo is the 9th largest television market in Canada.  London/Woodstock is 10th, and Windsor is 13th.  Which teams now have the broadcasting rights to those markets or will in the future?

It would be nice to see more CFL teams, but there would have to be some really strict revenue sharing and cap rules in place for small market teams to have a chance.

If market size is a factor, Ottawa and Quebec should have teams.  They are the 4th and 7th markets respectively.


(in reply to WallysWorld)
Post #: 13
RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 4/28/2008 11:05:49 PM   
Brockleigh


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quote:

The CFL should try to bring in two teams at a time for scheduling balance.  If Halifax doesn't get moving, would Quebec City be an option?


While the CFL has gotten much better in terms of credibility, that doesn't mean they do anything with any degree of common sense.

quote:

It would be nice if the Canadian government would help some of the cities build stadiums - not fund them entirely, but help out.


There was an initiative that was in the planning phases back in 2002 to help cities build stadia, but that died with the Chretien government.

quote:

Quebec City would be the best choice if there was a stadium. That's the biggest hold up with getting more CFL teams. You need stadiums of at the absolute minimum seating of 25,000 seats and 30-35k to make any sort of worth while profit. And there simply are none left in the country. Anytime any public figure or developer brings up the idea of building a 35k seat sports stadium there's huge uproars about not spending that money in the health care system....it drives me up the wall but anyway...


Your Saskatchewan Roughriders made a profit of $1.7 million last year with a stadium that holds 28,500. It can be done.

quote:

You could expand St Mary's stadium in Halifax only if you knocked down a facility building that butts up against one side of the field. I lived in the Halifax area for a couple of years and a new CFL sized stadium was always the hot potato. To make it viable you need to cover it so it can be used all year long as a convention centre or for concerts. That adds more expense and again.. people want to use the money for other things.


Something the intrigues me is the FargoDome where the University of North Dakota plays football. It's a dome that holds about 25,000 and was built in the mid 90's for $48 million USD. Even with the labour rates in Canada and inflation over the past 15 years, you could probably get something like that done for under $90 million Canadian, which really isn't bad, relatively.

quote:

On a side note, does Hamilton have the television rights to London and Windsor?


No.

quote:

There is no way I would be cool with Ottawa receiving tax money for yet ANOTHER friggin' team.


That's what you're getting. The south stand at Frank Clair stadium was condemned and needs to be rebuilt, and as it's actually a city park, that's who'd have to pay for it.

quote:

The idea with this group is to turn over the land to the developers and let them build whatever it is they're going to build. Then tax them. The developers own the team, the stadium, the parking, the hockey arena (which is attached to the building), etc.. and get all the revenue, and then the city gets their property taxes.


That's still being negotiated, while the expansion franchise is conditional upon a suitable stadium. So right now, the city is on the hook.

quote:

The Windsor idea intreaged me.Were the team would play out of the pontiac silver dome.I believe with some alterations a CFL field would have fit into it.The team would have been registered in Windsor to get around American Labour laws.The only major problem I could see it was the Gliebermans proposing it.


It's a good idea, but I know what an absolute pain it is for Canadians crossing the US border to go to Buffalo Sabres games, and I can't see a sufficient number of Americans going through that kind of hassle to make a Windsor team worthwhile. Windsor, without Detroit, would be the smallest market in the league (behind Regina)

quote:

Frankly I see Quebec City (an ownership group is already in place) and London getting CFL teams in the near future.


Quebec, yes. London had two expansion applications shot down, one in the 60's, one in the 70's. Both were shot down by the league, as it was worried the league would be too Ontario-centric.

quote:

Does Hamilton have a large enough base if London or Windsor received a team?

Windsor would likely draw more from Detroit than from Hamilton.


Windsor is 3 hours away from Hamilton, and is not a significant, or even an ancilliary revenue source for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. London, maybe, but the amalgamtaed City Of Hamilton has a population of 504,000 people, with another 325,000 in the Burlington-Oakville area. Hamilton has enough fans on it's front doorstep.

quote:

It would be nice to see more CFL teams, but there would have to be some really strict revenue sharing and cap rules in place for small market teams to have a chance.


Hard to do. Teams are known for treating their teams and markets as fiefdoms, and won't agree to anything that might impact them negatively in the least. Again, attitudes are changing, but teams have not, by and large over the past 15 years, been terribly receptive to anything that might be long term beneficial to the league at large if it it hurts their team short term.

_____________________________

It's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I'm all outta gum.


(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 14
RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 4/29/2008 12:00:32 AM   
Marauders

 

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quote:

quote:

quote:

Does Hamilton have a large enough base if London or Windsor received a team?

Windsor would likely draw more from Detroit than from Hamilton.

Windsor is 3 hours away from Hamilton, and is not a significant, or even an ancilliary revenue source for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. London, maybe, but the amalgamtaed City Of Hamilton has a population of 504,000 people, with another 325,000 in the Burlington-Oakville area. Hamilton has enough fans on it's front doorstep.


I am talking about television and radio rights.  Those are a big deal in the NFL, but the CFL may not get it.

quote:

quote:

It would be nice to see more CFL teams, but there would have to be some really strict revenue sharing and cap rules in place for small market teams to have a chance.

Hard to do. Teams are known for treating their teams and markets as fiefdoms, and won't agree to anything that might impact them negatively in the least. Again, attitudes are changing, but teams have not, by and large over the past 15 years, been terribly receptive to anything that might be long term beneficial to the league at large if it it hurts their team short term.


That is very shortsighted.  The NFL, under the leadership of the Giants ownership, made sure that all television revenue would be split evenly between the teams.  It made the NFL much more healthy.

(in reply to Brockleigh)
Post #: 15
RE: Ottawa gets CFL team... - 4/29/2008 12:28:12 AM   
Brockleigh


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quote:

I am talking about television and radio rights.  Those are a big deal in the NFL, but the CFL may not get it.


The CFL is a gate driven league, and TV rights aren't in the same ballpark as the NFL. I remember a number of years back, when the salary cap was at $58 million, that each NFL team, through their TV deal, made $72 million and a gross profit of $14 million before they'd even sold a ticket.

If memory serves (and if someone has conflicting numbers, feel free to say so), but TSN paid $35 million for five years to the CFL back in 2003. They just signed a new deal last year that takes effect this season (although numbers were not disclosed), and I would suffice it to say the numbers would be larger, but not that much larger.

Anyhow, the magic number everyone floats around for territory is a 75 km radius around the city. That would make Kitchener just inside the boundary, but London well outside and Windsor not even a consideration.

quote:

That is very shortsighted.  The NFL, under the leadership of the Giants ownership, made sure that all television revenue would be split evenly between the teams.  It made the NFL much more healthy.


Very true, but when every team in the league has flirted with bankruptcy over the past 20 years, and two succumbed to it (hell, make that the entire US experiment), it makes short term thinking very prevalent. The prosperity of the league recently may make for a more open approach to revenue-sharing, but it won't be anytime in the near future.


_____________________________

It's time to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I'm all outta gum.


(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 16
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