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Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/10/2008 4:56:48 AM   
VDV


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First let me say I do love this game and have very much enjoy it. I really thank the development team for putting this out and making it available.

My only complaint is the opposition forces (A side I prefer to play as.. Surprise as I'm eastern European and like our equipment and our side). There seems to be much more complexity and options available to the "Nato" force structure compared to the OPFOR. This seems very one sided..

OPFOR forces seem to be pigeon holed to some third world status with unrealistic unit structure to what is modern standards. The "rebel / insurgent " (centralian) seem Ok but the Ex-soviet bloc units are all wrong or badly comprised. For example a Hunter killer team is not just RPGs it is comprised of a couple RPGs with a PKM or RPK and an SVD. PKM and SVD troops are there to pin unmounted infantry while the RPGs do their job.. While one can add these one by one to the force structure. it takes up three spots to make up what should be one unit and the PKM team adds more than is needed with extras making a higher profile target. The lack of the ZSU 23-4 (Why the obsolete ZSU 57 ?) or at least a truck, BMP or BTR-D with a Zu-23 is also a set back. These are now standard infantry support weapons. BTR-70 and 80 are also now regularly equipped with AGS-17, ATGMS or 30mm cannons for fire support and survivability. BTRs come in as many flavors as the skriker or Hummv and having this would add to realism and accuracy. The BTR-80 is a very heavily used piece of equipment and it would be nice to have the combat varieties available in a combat survivable manner. The current model on CCMT has little if any use and this is really not accurate.

Again I love the game and have enjoyed it very much.. I would just like to see in future revisions some more accurate representations in OPFOR units and not just pile on more and more to the NATO western crowd leaving us in the dust. It would be nice to also recognize that us represented on the OPFOR side are not quite so ill equipped or organized and give us the strategical and tactical position that in reality does exist.
Post #: 1
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/10/2008 5:32:16 AM   
Audie Murphy

 

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The problem is, OPFOR really was meant as third world, CCMT was developed from a modern military simulator. In an earlier game, Road to Baghdad, poor Saddam even had no air support (the only good thing for him, the US side used mostly light forces, I remember only one Abrams in one mission during the whole game.)

This game can be modded quite easily, the data are in delimited text format and can be processed with MS Excel - so we can make the Soviet/Eastern European forces what they should be, adding more soldiers to the HK team or making several versions of BTR-80. ZSU Shilka is also one of my favorites and I would love to see it in game (I was looking for it in the patch but it was not there).

There are a couple of Soviet vs NATO mods for Close Combat and CCMT would also benefit from one.

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 2
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/10/2008 6:36:44 AM   
VDV


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I'm aware the game can be modded very easy, which I have played with a bit, it is however time consuming, not really my expertise and I do not have this time to do so. Wish I did....

I'd really hope that those who do know a bit more about this and do have the expertise in the system will take this into consideration  and create a good mod for it or it will be given some thought in the next patch.

I have RSR and it is quite nice but I really do like the CCMT format and it's nature rather than the CC5 format. Might be suprising to others but I do generally like single mission tactical situations on large scale maps over the carry over games of the other versions..

What I would like to see however is a fair fight and an accurate fight... OPFOR deserves a bit of love and attention too. It should not be just target pratice but a real opposition with more accurate representation.



(in reply to Audie Murphy)
Post #: 3
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/10/2008 6:52:54 AM   
Andrew Williams


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I play mostly OpFor too!!

Please, TO&E/OOB's glady accepted.

If you have the knowledge , please pass it on in this forum.

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 4
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/10/2008 7:21:29 AM   
Audie Murphy

 

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Serious modding takes a team and a couple of years but we could start with some good Eastern units. There are some CC fans in my place that could also help with the data. 

If you have more suggestions what should be improved you can post them here and I will see that OPFOR gets what it needs. CCMT is also better because you need only to edit the data files, no battlegroup editing, no strat maps.

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 5
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/11/2008 12:24:04 AM   
Perturabo


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It's nice to see that I'm not the only OPFOR fan :) .

I think that a normal hunter-killer team would be pointless in CCMT because one can't order one unit to spread its fires.

I'd love to see OPFOR as developed as the Army.

I have a small mod that adds some things to Montanyans, namely 5 more command vehicles and a 6 man BMP dismount team.
It also gives Centralians mobs which come in three flavours:
Rifle mobs - basically two rifle squads combined but without LMGs and with poor training - they are good for countering massive firepower of the Army.
Angry mobs - a group of 17 angry civilians armed with kitchen knives - they are hilarious to execute from machine guns, but not so amusing when they get a fireteam and tear it apart.
Armed mobs - a group of 17 angry civilians - 3 of them are armed with Ak-47s, one with a pistol, one with RPG and the rest has kitchen knives.

They are very good for Black Hawk Down type scenarios, where a group of Army soldiers fights against whole city :D .


_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to Audie Murphy)
Post #: 6
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/11/2008 1:46:07 AM   
Audie Murphy

 

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Sounds like halfway to a mafia mod :D

I have a list of mafia/civilian units somewhere, including armed shopkeepers, mafia gunners and mafia boss... lets make Centralia a real mess as it should be :D
And there is a football field map in CC5 format, so adding Angry Football Fan teams with fists and empty bottles make a Fighting Football Fan scenario.

Football Fans - 17 civilians, unarmed

Single Robbers:
1) club
2) PM/TT/M9
3) shot gun
Robber Gangs
- `light` robber gang (2 clubs + 1 pistol);
- `medium` robber gang (3 pistols);
- `heavy` robber gang (3 shot guns + 3 pistols);

Shopkeepers
- small one man shops
1) PM/TT/M9
2) shot gun
- medium shop (2 pistols + 1 shot gun)
- large shop (3 pistols + 5 shot guns)

Mafia
- mafia boss w/escort (boss, 2 MP + 2 AK)
- mafia leader w/escort (leader, 2 AK)
- mafia raid group (leader + 1 shot gun + 2 pistols);
- mafia patrol group (2 pistols) ;
- `light` mafia killer team (leader + 2 MP);
- `medium` mafia killer team (leader + 2 AK);
- `heavy` mafia killer team (leader + 3 AK + RPG).
- mafia sniper (SVD)

Centralia goes wild!!!

The existing 3rd world units can be kept as they are, adding stronger Soviet/Russian units (depending on which period we try to play).

< Message edited by Audie Murphy -- 3/11/2008 2:14:34 AM >

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 7
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/11/2008 2:55:35 AM   
Perturabo


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Heh
The football fans would be better for Urbanians than for Centralians :D .

I like the idea of mafia.
IIRC Russians went after Chechnya because of activity of Chechen mafia.

I love OPFOR, because it creates a lot of opportunities for interesting stories. For example, one side can be a drug lord or mafia or terrorists or simply a local government.
I played a scenario today where a clan was genociding a town. I used one clan command and a rifle team mounted on two technical pickups supported by an insurgent pickup and one warlord, three rifle squads, a sniper and five technical cars to genocide ten armed mobs and five unarmed mobs.
Systematic annihilation of the mobs took some time, but was a great way to relax. When the game ended, they had over one hundred wounded and over one hundred dead.
One of the pick-up gunners had forty one kills.

Also, I love using a low-tech Montanyan force (i.e. using T-55/62, BTR-60 and BMP-1) against Centralians :) .
Personally, I would gladly remove the Urbanian and UK units, because they are so boring XD . Army could be replaced with high tech Eastern European forces.

Another force type that I like are merceneries. I created a mercenery company - F- Futurians. They have a weird organisation - base-of-fire teams that have multiple M-16/M203s, rifle teams with M-16s and a full auto M-16 instead of M249 and assault teams with M4s XD .
They us M-113s with M2s/AGL/Javelin for transport :D .


_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to Audie Murphy)
Post #: 8
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/11/2008 4:17:52 AM   
Audie Murphy

 

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Would be interesting to see your mod and add mafia units to it, is it possible?
Warlords, hostilities, private military companies, mobbing, robbery and mafia... I am sooo happy I dont live there.

After that we can return to the Soviet/Russian units.

Another way of menacing is strategic bombers. I have pics of B1 and its Soviet counterpart, colored top views, the question ios does anyone know how to build a .tex from them? I can convert bmps to tgas and edit existing texes but not create a new one.

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 9
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/11/2008 5:38:34 AM   
Fred98


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From: Wollondilly, Sydney
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The Opforce is fictional. It's OOB cannot be inaccurate.  It can be modded.


-




< Message edited by Joe 98 -- 3/11/2008 5:41:25 AM >

(in reply to Audie Murphy)
Post #: 10
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/12/2008 12:06:57 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Audie Murphy

Would be interesting to see your mod and add mafia units to it, is it possible?

I think I can post the mod. When I'll make a few engagements.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Audie Murphy

Another way of menacing is strategic bombers. I have pics of B1 and its Soviet counterpart, colored top views, the question ios does anyone know how to build a .tex from them? I can convert bmps to tgas and edit existing texes but not create a new one.

Strategic bombers would be comedy gold. ARMY forces could be present mainly as light special force units and strategic air support.
B1s could spam 80 Mark 82 bombs or 20 Mark 84 bombs.

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to Audie Murphy)
Post #: 11
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/12/2008 2:29:37 AM   
Audie Murphy

 

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Going back to tough Soviet style OPFOR: we have two suggestions, a more advanced HK team and more versions of BTR80. 
- Russian marines (Morskaya Pehota or shortly Morpehi)  
- Airbornes
- Special Forces (Spetsnaz)
Here we would need assistance from VDV and other experts.

Of course OPFOR is a fictional force but fictional forces, just like real ones, can be weak or strong.
So... the list is open. 

< Message edited by Audie Murphy -- 3/12/2008 2:34:16 AM >

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 12
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/12/2008 4:40:46 AM   
VDV


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Nice to see some more interest in this and some good suggestions and ideas.

One point raised on hunter killer teams is a good one and you are correct that you can not order units to spread fire but you can chose what will shoot at what. How these units are used would still work in the game. The RPG's take out a APC and the fire support takes care of or pins down the crew or dismounted infantry. These are Truly close combat ambush units and in typical deployments are used in pairs supported by a "regular" or ad-hoc infantry team. They are entirely hit and run formations designed to cause inital confusion, disorginization and distraction before dropping back and letting the more well equipped forces then move in and engage.  I have used this same technique on the AI a number of times and it works so well I do not even think of fearing an Abrams. (I have been itching to go against another real player to employ these same methods)

I do not care personally if the OPFOR units are named after a specific group be it VDV or Morskaya Pehota but some level of higher modeling would be nice with the formations and equipment currently used being represented in the manner they are being used.

When I get a chance I'll put together a list of references and comments for review...     

(in reply to Audie Murphy)
Post #: 13
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/12/2008 1:36:44 PM   
Perturabo


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I think it's possible do.

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 14
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/31/2008 1:42:46 AM   
VDV


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For those wishing to play with more accurate (And powerful) To&E Russian VDV units..
Here is the RedTeams file.. I have not yet got around to redoing specific soldiers, Weapons, Icons, graphics Etc. so in some cases I just used what was a sort of equivalent (I.E. B-11 for spg-9, M-4 as a place holder for AKSU variants in a couple units)

I have added three Armored units and altered Some of them, such as the BRDM to carry a 3 person team and altered BMP-2 armor just a bit to reflect current up armored versions. I'll post this revision in a following post. New units are a AGS armed truck, BTR with AGS and the addition of the BTR-90 30mm equipped APC..

If anyone has an Idea on how to model the RPO-A flame rocket system (or adapt the one from the RSR submod) add one per team.. So far I have not been able to do this. If you do get it to work let me know how please..

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 15
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/31/2008 1:44:44 AM   
VDV


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Again these are just preliminary and not really completed..

Attachment (1)

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 16
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/31/2008 2:04:08 PM   
Andrew Williams


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I think you need to zip them so they can be downloaded.

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 17
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 3/31/2008 2:27:30 PM   
Perturabo


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I'll take look at them.

_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 18
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/9/2008 10:04:07 AM   
newabortion

 

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Russian units are what I'm looking forward to the most. They can be used as Counter insergency forces against the chechen montayin(spelling?)forces.
Kill kids in are schools with ya? Smack those suckers down with the Russian bear claw!

_____________________________

NeWaBoRtIoN: btw me and my buddys are haveing a huge discussion, who would win, Master chief or Link?
Daviald: Who is mater chief and link?
Daviald: :)
NeWaBoRtIoN: WTF

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 19
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/10/2008 2:52:04 AM   
Perturabo


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Aren't Chechen more like centralians?

Speaking of vengeances - then Russian merceneries and drunk/drugged soldiers would be absolutely neccessary - they should pay for raping and mordering women and throwing children out of windows.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 5/10/2008 2:53:07 AM >


_____________________________

Without social solidarity manifested in the form of welfare state, people inhabiting one territory are a non-nation of mortal enemies engaged in competition for survival.

(in reply to newabortion)
Post #: 20
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/10/2008 4:07:05 AM   
VDV


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Actually I'd say Chechens are darn tough and well equipped. But then that is why we changed our forces and tactics to counter this insurgency.

I redid a bunch of stuff (Much better than the last) and added a bunch of new equipment. I really do not have time for graphics but the equipment and units are as accurate as I could make it using what I have to work with. Still needs some tweaks but one only has so much time...

Starting with blueteams:

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Perturabo)
Post #: 21
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/10/2008 4:08:11 AM   
VDV


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Redteams

Attachment (1)

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 22
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/10/2008 4:09:35 AM   
VDV


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Soldiers

Attachment (1)

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 23
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/10/2008 4:11:08 AM   
VDV


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Vehicles:

Attachment (1)

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 24
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/10/2008 4:12:30 AM   
VDV


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Weapons:

Attachment (1)

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 25
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/10/2008 4:15:23 AM   
VDV


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Sorry I could not find a way to batch these and allow it to post..
If you click on the individual attachment and open it, copy and paste this to Notepad and then save it into the BASE files. Back up your originals as these are way different and will change quite a bit..

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 26
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/10/2008 6:00:08 AM   
Andrew Williams


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VDV

Would you have a name for your "MOD"

I might be able to package all the files up and make a single downloadable plugin for it.


You will be able to install and uninstall using modswap

< Message edited by Andrew Williams -- 5/10/2008 6:01:16 AM >

(in reply to VDV)
Post #: 27
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/10/2008 7:56:32 PM   
Audie Murphy

 

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There are some modern weapons graphics which can be used (credits to Rouge5 as the author). The Soviet period weapons were made for the Road to Baghdad game and are ready, only some of the modern weapons missing. The battlegroup pictures can either be kept as they are or made from photos (or screens of a film). I made some for Road to Baghdad, but they will not fit into a Russian mod. The Afghan mujahideen differ a lot from the Iraqi insurgents but none of them would go for Chechens.



(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 28
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/13/2008 5:11:54 PM   
newabortion

 

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This game needs some better sounds, the weapon sounds in this game are pretty bad in my opinion, the m16 sounds sound no where near like an m16, seeing as I havent heard any other weapon I can't say. the M16 as with all weapons should sound like firecrackers, esp with the distance of the commanders view, the camera is like a half a mile from the field so they should start to sound like pops, not whatever they sound like now...right now I just want some more real gun sounds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nep0PB8z_sM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSecc2zNoeE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FcXWZ0XVuw&feature=related

my personal favorite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TysyEbWHNfI

< Message edited by newabortion -- 5/13/2008 6:01:14 PM >


_____________________________

NeWaBoRtIoN: btw me and my buddys are haveing a huge discussion, who would win, Master chief or Link?
Daviald: Who is mater chief and link?
Daviald: :)
NeWaBoRtIoN: WTF

(in reply to Audie Murphy)
Post #: 29
RE: Bit more accurate OPFOR - 5/14/2008 1:29:58 AM   
Audie Murphy

 

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Can you extract the sound from the video in mp3 format? There is a program for repacking the Sound files so that the stock sounds can be replaced with new ones.

The developer has made an exe file. Everything else can be modded and improved by us gamers.

(in reply to newabortion)
Post #: 30
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