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New Great Patriotic War Scenario

 
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New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 8:41:50 AM   
tweber

 

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I just posted a divisional level War in the East (1941-...) that I developed with Mark Johnson. The game is large - 140-120 hexes, 600 units, 12 mile scale, 7 days in a turn. You can play either a side (Axis vs Soviets) or split the game up into sectors (AG North and Finland, AG Center, AG South and Romania, Soviet NW Fronts, Soviet Center Fronts, Soviet Southern Fronts). Mark did the OOB and used historic divisional names and include leader names in the HQs. Up to 6 players can play if the side are split into sectors.

This scenario should work but has not been thoroughly tested for balance (given the size of this, it could take a few months).




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< Message edited by tweber -- 2/3/2008 8:42:40 AM >
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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 8:43:40 AM   
tweber

 

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Here is the scenario description:

The Great Patriotic War, 1941 to …

WARNING.  THIS IS A HUGE SCENARIO (600+ UNITS, 140 x120 HEXES) AND AI TURNS CAN TAKE A WHILE.  ALSO NOTE THAT SOME EVENTS WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY IF PLAYED ON AN A.T. VERSION BELOW 1.10L

OVERVIEW

This is a division-level representation of the war in eastern Europe from June 22, 1941 onwards.  The map extends from Berlin in the west to Gorki and the Urals production zones (abstracted) in the east.  Fronts/Army Groups and Army's are positioned and named historically.   Sides can be broken up into sectors to allow up to team play (up to 3 on a side).  Scale is 12 miles for east / west hexes and 1 week per turn. 

ORDER OF BATTLE (OOB)

All German Panzer and Motorised divisions, as well as some interesting historical units such as the Spanish Blue Division are also shown.  The other units on the map are placed with an attempt at accuracy but are numbered as per the defaults in the scenario editor.  HQs.  HQ commanders are often named with the units they lead (e.g., Guderian).  It is up to the player to keep track of commander as the war progresses.

PLAY OPTIONS

The Axis is split into 3 regimes – Army Group North and Finland, Army Group Center, and Army Group South and Romania. 
The Soviets are likewise split into 3 regimes – NW Fronts, Central Fronts, and Southern Fronts.  Play options include:
1.  Play 1, 2, or 3 army groups against the corresponding Soviet fronts (e.g., AG Center vs the Western front only).  A sector will be ‘awake’ unless the appropriate variant is selected.  Note that the number of sectors in play is mirrored (e.g., if the north sector is in play, both AGN and Finland and the Soviet NW Fronts will be active). 
2.  Combine the sides in 1 massive regimes (good for those that like to manage a battle across 100 hexes).  This option is selected by a variant.
Initially, both the combined regime and the sectors are shown in the play menu.  This is so you can set sides or sectors to AI play if desired. 

LIMITATIONS

If the sectors are not combined onto a side, the sectors are independent regimes.  Key limitations include:
- All 3 Axis sectors are at war with all three Soviet sectors and at peace with each-other (and vice versa for the Soviet side).  All regimes are diplomatically blocked.
- Sectors on a side may granted each other political points and political points may build some units.  There is no other mechanism to transfer units across a sector.
- Sectors can block supply.  However, a sector may declare a ‘war of convenience’ against a friendly sector.  This allows movement into another sector to prevent blocking.  Be careful, both sides are now at war and will intercept or ambush.  Players on a side may wish to share post turn screen shots to prevent friendly fire incidents.

SUPPLY AND PRODUCTION

The following locations are used
- Factories.  Build artillery, vehicles, ships and planes.  They are usable by the other side (to some extent) if captured.
- Recruitment centers build infantry and supply.  They are not usable by the other side if captured.
- Supply dumps build supply.  They are usable by the other side if captured.
The Soviet start with a 4:3 production advantage over the Germans.  Soviet production rises 10% in 1942, 1943 and again in 1944.  German production is constant, except for SS production which increases 20% each year.
The Soviets get a large initial levy of conscripts in turn 5 to represent citizens rallying to the cause.  10 conscripts appear in every Soviet urban area NW of hex 90, 105.
The Soviets also get worker battalions in Leningrad and Moscow as they are approached.
The Soviets also get Eastern reinforcements in October and December.
The Germans get Volksstrum in Germany if threatened.
Note that players may use action cards to purchase rifle, light tanks, fighters, artillery and supply.  Also, players get a pp grant each turn equal to their victory points. 

WEATHER

There are 5 weather states:
1.  Blitz.  During the first 4 turns of the game and in June 1942, the Germans are blitzing.  They have significant movement and combat bonuses
2.  Clear.  May – September.  50% chance in April and October.  Normal movement and combat.
3.  Mud.  50% change March, April, October, November.  Severe movement penalties.  Some readiness reduction
4.  Winter.  50% in November, March, December through February.  Some movement penalties.  Some combat penalties for German and Axis Minor troops.
5.  Severe Winter.  December 1941, January 1942.  Some movement penalties.  Substantial combat and readiness penalties for German and Axis Minor troops.

PARTISANS AND WARSAW UPRISING

There is a slight chance that partisans will arrive each turn in non-plains hexes occupied by the Axis.
As the Soviets approach Warsaw, the Polish resistance will stage and uprising.  Warsaw becomes part of a Polish regime that is at war with both the Germans and the Soviets.

NEW UNITS

Naval and land mines.  Inexpensive, immobile, can only defend.
Soviet Worker Battalions.  Horrible in combat.  Engineering capability
Soviet Conscripts.  Horrible in attack, defend like rifle
Volksstrum.  Respectable in defense only, some engineering capability
Flak 88 and Katyusha.  Similar to units in World at War Scenario.

VICTORY

There are no defined victory conditions though the Soviets have significant production around Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad.  Set your own victory conditions or play to the bitter end.


< Message edited by tweber -- 2/3/2008 8:44:10 AM >

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 9:05:49 AM   
Agent S


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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 1:51:43 PM   
xBoroNx

 

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Wonderful. Congrats Tom and Mark

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 3:59:57 PM   
seille

 

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And the 4:3 advantage in production will allow the russians to survive the attack ?
With the Germans probably capturing some of the russian production and the limited increase
of russian production by only 10% per year i would wonder if this is possible.

But it´s also a question of initial forces of course and how much losses the German take while their
initial attack.

Is there any impact like Lend Lease or maybe US strategic bombing that could reduce German factory output ?

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 5:19:29 PM   
tweber

 

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Not sure about play balance.  The weather is much worse than the earlier Russia scenario and the Soviets do have some significant reserves.  And, it will take much longer for the Axis to mobilize.  However, the initial blitz is more severe.  We will see.  However, I did want to get this out so that more people could play with it.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 5:36:58 PM   
seille

 

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I think it´s good to test it that way.
Faster to get a balance into that scenario especially for production.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 5:54:24 PM   
Captain Cruft

 

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Splendid!

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 6:35:56 PM   
Captain Cruft

 

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Having a look now ...

Superb. I really the much larger number of small production centres. What are the "Road Convoys" for though?

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 7:40:18 PM   
tweber

 

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Road convoys are just the name Mark gave to a unit with a lot of trucks.  I would put them in HQs or in units you want to mobilize.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 7:52:14 PM   
Captain Cruft

 

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Ah OK, nothing mystical then ;)

I have to say, having looked some more, this is not a just a bigger version of Russia '41 it's a whole new ball game. Much much better, or to be precise, more to my taste. I could never get on with the small number of large production centres. With this new setup it should be possible to produce a little bit of most of the things that you need every turn rather than having to chop and change all the time and end up with big lumps of un-matched things all over the place. If you see what I mean ...

If I can persuade my opponent to have a go at it I may post an AAR.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 7:53:34 PM   
Bismarck


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Where did you upload this?

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 7:59:20 PM   
Captain Cruft

 

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All scenarios may be found at http://www.advancedtactics.org/scenariobank.php

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/3/2008 8:11:08 PM   
Bismarck


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I got it. I didn't scroll down to the unapproved.

It's odd that the approved scenarios are too old to play but more up=to=date ones are unapproved.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 1:36:38 AM   
Captain Cruft

 

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Well I've just played the first turn as the Germans against the AI. It took about 4 hours but a lot of that was just renaming units and puzzling out what was what. I'm sure I can get it down to a lot less going forward.

One very small bugette. Using the "Units arrive in Bucharest" action card gives the message "Units will arrive in Helsinki". I'm not sure whether they actually do though since I changed it to Prague.

Overall it feels great so far :)

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 5:48:14 AM   
tweber

 

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Thanks for the catch.  The units should arrive correctly, just mislabelled.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 6:02:17 AM   
Captain Cruft

 

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I also noticed that although I am playing unified sides a regime called "SW Front" appears on the regime list in the Strategic Map screen. Not sure if that's a problem or not but it was definitely out of place. Otherwise there was just Axis and Allies IIRC.

P.S. I am still waiting for the AI processing on turn 1 to finish. It's taken 4.5 hours so far and is up to Step 8000 or so.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 6:46:52 AM   
tweber

 

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There are a bunch of regimes that are used for event and game purposes that can be ignored.  If you combine, it should be Axis vs Soviets.  If you split, you should have 2 regimes per sector that you keep awake.

This is big so it may be difficult to realistically play with the AI.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 11:20:06 AM   
freeboy

 

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Tom what settings should the ai be.. that is to ask, in the settup screen you have German sove and then three german and four sovs, If I so not want all the little german split, and sellect ?? forgot now unifying the commands do I check human for all the germans and ai(+) for all the soviets?
I saw that on my very fast computer the ai just sat around thinking.. so maybe this should be human only???

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 2:12:28 PM   
BULLDOGINTHEUK


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Just downloaded it and it is massive, wow, very impressive. I can see a lot of work went into it. I agree with the comments above though that it should be human only.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 3:59:07 PM   
Captain Cruft

 

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Well after a night's sleep I decided to kill the AI processing. It was over 20,000 steps and still going ...

I will start an H2H game against myself instead, and continue to report on any issues found.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 4:18:25 PM   
Bombur

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Well after a night's sleep I decided to kill the AI processing. It was over 20,000 steps and still going ...

I will start an H2H game against myself instead, and continue to report on any issues found.



-Maybe we could start a PBEM game?

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 6:01:35 PM   
Captain Cruft

 

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Yes OK :) PM sent ...

I will still play against myself too for testing purposes.

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/4/2008 6:42:46 PM   
gingerbread

 

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Ah!

Now this is good for some serious gaming.

Some observations:
Air ranges - a bit overrated for '41
Factories and inf production centers (nice idea, btw) can be built by engineers...
Some starting units have low Xp, in particular Ge HQ staff.
While the SU did field Md & Hv tanks in '41, they did not have doctrine capable of utilizing them - that came later
Would love an event like "Zhukov arrives to set up defence of Leningrad" (50 Lv3 100 Xp staff in an HQ)

g

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/5/2008 8:38:07 AM   
Captain Cruft

 

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I'm not sure about being able to build production centres. It seems to me that since engineers can effectively reproduce themselves by building recruitment centres you can go on an exponential growth curve.

I have no doubt that tweber has thought of this though, and the process is limited by PPs, for which the production capacity is not expandable. So it might work out OK, we will have to see :)

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/5/2008 4:51:27 PM   
tweber

 

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Actually, I did not intend to make production centers buildable by engineers and will turn off in next version. 

I also found 2 other bugs that I will fix for v2:

- the 'worker battalions' arrive as rifle
- conscripts can be upgraded to rifle 2.  Both units will be non-upgradeable.

As for Freeboys question, I show the 2 regimes that are active if you play the entire side and the 6 regimes that are active if you split into sectors.  This is because you have to select AI before variants are executed.  If you play with the entire side, it does not matter how you set the sectors as they will immediately join the appropriate side and then go dormant. 

I also tried AI and I think this scenario is just too big for the AI


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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/5/2008 5:55:22 PM   
BULLDOGINTHEUK


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Looks like a multiplayer game of this scenario is starting soon. Any chance of doing the patch in the next few days before the game starts?  Its worth a try asking, lol .

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/5/2008 6:01:54 PM   
IRONCROM


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Holy Crap!!!

I was wondering how long it would be before we saw an East front monster like this.

Way to go Tom.

< Message edited by IRONCROM -- 2/5/2008 6:02:17 PM >

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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/5/2008 6:04:51 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweber

Actually, I did not intend to make production centers buildable by engineers and will turn off in next version. 

I also found 2 other bugs that I will fix for v2:

- the 'worker battalions' arrive as rifle
- conscripts can be upgraded to rifle 2.  Both units will be non-upgradeable.

As for Freeboys question, I show the 2 regimes that are active if you play the entire side and the 6 regimes that are active if you split into sectors.  This is because you have to select AI before variants are executed.  If you play with the entire side, it does not matter how you set the sectors as they will immediately join the appropriate side and then go dormant. 

I also tried AI and I think this scenario is just too big for the AI





Tom, I'd suggest turning on the location names as well. At least for all the cities/towns. makes it easier to discuss and AAR.


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RE: New Great Patriotic War Scenario - 2/5/2008 7:58:55 PM   
Gresbeck

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweber

Mark did the OOB and used historic divisional names and include leader names in the HQs.


That sounds great. But as the game goes on the player can build ahistorical divisions and include ahistorical OOB in them, or did you find a way to have only predefined OOB?

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