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Non-generic SFtypes

 
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Non-generic SFtypes - 1/31/2008 9:49:12 PM   
Captain Cruft


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After playing around (and actually playing) for a while I have come to the conclusion that what this game really needs for WW2 is non-generic sub-formation types. The generic units I can live with, but half the fun of WW2 is the different equipment. German tanks are better but there are less of them. Japanese aircraft are initially superior but the Allies catch up and then supercede. Etc etc ... As it is now there is currently little difference between playing any particular nation except for the production capabilities.

Is anyone working on a master file that would give us this? It would add immensely to the WW2 context for this game. I am almost tempted to do it myself but I don't think I quite understand the combat parameters well enough yet ... :)
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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/1/2008 2:23:31 AM   
T_K

 

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That would be me. It's a lot of work and I do a little bit almost every day but I just don't have time to post updates, unit lists etc.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/1/2008 3:33:52 AM   
Rick

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: T_K

That would be me. It's a lot of work and I do a little bit almost every day but I just don't have time to post updates, unit lists etc.


Have you considered making this a community effort? I've also been thinking about this, but when I think of the effort involved, its seems pretty overwhelming. I may try this on a smaller scale just as a trial (i.e. pic a battle and just model the forces in that specific battle). balancing unit strengths will be a major undertaking I would think.

Rick

(in reply to T_K)
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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/1/2008 3:45:36 AM   
T_K

 

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Yes indeed balancing will be very time consuming. I actually have a big excel file where I'm entering all the stats - the editor isn't really user friendly when it comes to balancing a multitude of units.

I do not wish to get more people involved at this stage cause I only do it as I have time and desire. Right now I'm playing a small skirmish vs the AI, evaluating how it works with the new units. Many basic units aren't really "new" for the engine, at this stage for example the russians have PTRD and the germans have panzerfaust but both are essentially copies of 'bazooka'. The tanks and artillery are more unique. As I depart further from the basic rules I'm afraid the AI will have a harder time getting a grip.

Here's my russian units image folder (click for a bit bigger pic)



< Message edited by T_K -- 2/1/2008 3:46:50 AM >

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Post #: 4
RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/1/2008 4:02:49 AM   
Captain Cruft


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Cool, that's exactly what I meant :)

If you need any help testing things out or whatever just send me a PM.

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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/1/2008 4:11:43 AM   
xBoroNx

 

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Looks very very promising. How do you balance the tanks? I briefly thought about starting an unique units mod on my own and there i thought that maybe for tanks i should e.g. scale the hitpoints to their armor, so something like that:
[0,5 x average front armor in mm + 0,3 x average side armor in mm + 0,1 x average rear armor +0,1 x average top armor] x 100.
That would lead to something like 15000 hitpoints for a king tiger and something like 2000-3000 for an early panzer III. Attack/damage values vs. other tanks could then also be based upon usual penetration values of the tanks main gun etc.

I am really looking forward to your mod :). Especially the german units will be a lot of work though with all the variants the germans used.

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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/1/2008 4:22:04 AM   
T_K

 

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My King Tiger has exactly 15000 HP :)

But I plan to introduce some diversity into the unit types, the standard armour/infantry/artillery/softmobile isn't enough to properly differentiate between vehicles with very light armour (10mm armoured cars for instance) and heavy tanks with upwards of 150mm armour. Also small antitank guns versus large field artillery - 150mm howitzers are way way more vulnerable to air strikes than say tiny 45mm anti-tank guns.

Little teaser :)




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Post #: 7
RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/1/2008 7:05:34 AM   
Agent S


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You could set up a google application spreadsheet and share to a number of collaborators/ viewers. for comments and testing.
- my 2 cents

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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/1/2008 7:42:01 AM   
T_K

 

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Like I said, I don't want any of that. Too involved.

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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/2/2008 1:53:25 AM   
Bombur

 

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T_K´s work is very impressive. But maybe it would be better to create separate SF´s for specific scenarios instead of a big masterfile. It would allow specific balance for each scenario. What should be unified, however, is the directory for alternate graphics, to avoid waste of HD space. A TOAW like graphics database would result in about 40MB and it could increase to 80 MB with custom ships. Wonder if each scenario designer creates its own database. Btw, T_K, i will send you some of my graphics for the Spanish Civil mod, as you asked me before. Tell me what is your e-mail, as I cannot send attached files using te matrix e-mail.
Mine is:

afenelon@terra.com.br

< Message edited by Bombur -- 2/2/2008 1:56:04 AM >

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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/2/2008 3:09:30 AM   
T_K

 

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I sent you an email.

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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/2/2008 3:50:57 AM   
T_K

 

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I have to say that most of your pics aren't usable. AT uses 260x194 pix standard, most of yours are really small and will need to be upsized which will deteriorate the quality. Could you come up with bigger pics?

Also let me know which units is for which side and what colors you want for each side (like the soviets have a red hue by default and the "minors" have a yellow hue).

< Message edited by T_K -- 2/2/2008 4:10:49 AM >

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RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/2/2008 3:56:13 PM   
Bombur

 

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I can try to get bigger images, but the deterioration of quality only happens when you click in the SF to see a bigger image. In the game screen properly the quality is still acceptable. I too this decision in order to spare space. I will send you the bigger graphics latter and also will take another look at how it appears in the game. Could you tell me the standard size (in bytes) for your graphics?
Nationalist units
Ju-87
SM-81
Me-109
CR-32
PzIb
CV-33
SM-79
He-51
Do-17
He-111
Republican units
I-15
I-16
SB-2
T-26
BT-5
BA-6
Dinamiteros
UNL-35
Units for both sides
BB-España
DD Churruca
Breguet XIX
Nid52
Military police (I used the Nationalist Guardia Civil for both sides as I didn´t find pictures for the Nationalist Asaltos)


(in reply to T_K)
Post #: 13
RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/2/2008 4:24:09 PM   
T_K

 

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You won't have that many pictures so saving a few KB of space, considering modern harddrives and broadband connection is really not needed. :) I checked my russian pics and they're between 20KB and 30KB each.

Also what colors do you prefer? Red for republicans and grey/sepia/something else for the nationalists?

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Post #: 14
RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 2/2/2008 6:39:04 PM   
Bombur

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: T_K

You won't have that many pictures so saving a few KB of space, considering modern harddrives and broadband connection is really not needed. :) I checked my russian pics and they're between 20KB and 30KB each.

Also what colors do you prefer? Red for republicans and grey/sepia/something else for the nationalists?




Agree, but I´m thinking about a much bigger database. My guess is that a complete WWII DB will have about 2000 items (with generic ships) and maybe 3000 items (with custom ships). It will give about 10MB using smaller pics (mine have about 5 Kb on average) and up to 90MB using bigger pictures.
I think you can use red for republicans and grey for the nationalists. I will try to get the bigger pictures.

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Post #: 15
RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 9/25/2008 9:54:02 AM   
choowee

 

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The first post in this chain asks the same question I have...are individual nation stats reflected in the OOB? For example, are U.S. armor, air and naval equipment technology and training advantages modeled in modern scenarios vs. other nations or is all production generic? Is modding experience levels the only way to give advantage? How is this done for WW2 scenarios?

I don't have the game so please forgive me if my questions are off-base. I am really thinking of purchasing and am trying to get a better feel for unit types, realism, etc...I was hoping to revive this question.

Thanks for any input.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 16
RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 9/25/2008 10:34:48 AM   
Grymme

 

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Hi

You can create different peoples and/or peoplegroups in the editor. They can have better morale, better fighting capability & better research capability among other things. They can also be better or worse against eachother. So for example. Chinese people fight better against Europeans, but worse against Indians.

You can also create special units that can only be produced by a specific regime. In one scenario i made USA has the USS Iowa battleship. In other scenarios people have created special leaders that are a 1time non producable unit. Also check out the huge Ostfront Scenario http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1767848

The short answer is Yes.


(in reply to choowee)
Post #: 17
RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 9/25/2008 3:18:50 PM   
choowee

 

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Grymme, thanks for the quick reply. That sounds great! I will be downloading soon and will see you all online for PBEM. Can't wait. Cheers.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 18
RE: Non-generic SFtypes - 9/25/2008 5:06:13 PM   
Widell


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I did some initial work in tweaking the excellent Third Reich scenario developed by Delyn Locksmith. It is mainly German aircraft for now, but you can get them by downloading my version of the Third Reich scenario from the Sandbox in the scenario bank.

(in reply to choowee)
Post #: 19
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