Matrix Games Forums

Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm gets huge update and a Steam release!Battle Academy 2 opens up a new front!Flashpoint Campaigns Featured on weekly Streaming SessionFrontline: The Longest Day - New Screenshots!Deal of the Week: Hannibal Rome and CarthageFlashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm gets Players Edition!To End All Wars gets its first major patch! Hell is now available!War in the West Wacht am Rhein AAR Deal of the Week Panzer Corps: Allied Corps
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Armament points

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Armament points Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Armament points - 1/31/2008 11:21:13 AM   
BigBadWolf


Posts: 571
Joined: 8/8/2007
From: Serbia
Status: offline
How many armament points does IJA division takes when coming on line? I'm not looking for exact figure, just approximation here, as I have some that should arrive soon, and need to know how much should I have stashed.

Thanks.

_____________________________

Post #: 1
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 12:24:27 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 12284
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf

How many armament points does IJA division takes when coming on line? I'm not looking for exact figure, just approximation here, as I have some that should arrive soon, and need to know how much should I have stashed.

Thanks.



would guess 10-13.000

_____________________________


(in reply to BigBadWolf)
Post #: 2
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 1:00:57 PM   
BigBadWolf


Posts: 571
Joined: 8/8/2007
From: Serbia
Status: offline
Ohshi-- I have like 1500 and there are two divisions coming... 

Thanks.


_____________________________


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 3
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 1:19:50 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 14114
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: online
Look on the bright side.  You'll get them at only 1/3 strength, but if you want to change their HQ, it'll only cost about 1000 PPs each.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to BigBadWolf)
Post #: 4
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 2:18:08 PM   
irrelevant


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
I'm not really sure about this. By the rules it should take the same number of armaments points as its load cost (20-25k). But I have had divisions arrive and seen essentially no change in my AP pool.

My current suspicion is that the "load cost" listing in the Ground Unit Reinforcement Schedule may be the number of armaments points it will cost to fill the unit out.

There is a thread out there that discusses this, it may be in the "Must Read Threads" thread....

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to BigBadWolf)
Post #: 5
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 4:14:18 PM   
Yakface

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
Sent this to my oponent after the last round of LLCU reinforcements. I've now switched off half my armament factories.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to irrelevant)
Post #: 6
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 4:21:47 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 14114
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

Sent this to my oponent after the last round of LLCU reinforcements. I've now switched off half my armament factories.





Did the reinforcements arrive at full or 1/3 strength?

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 7
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 4:27:56 PM   
irrelevant


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

Sent this to my oponent after the last round of LLCU reinforcements. I've now switched off half my armament factories.





Add up the load cost of what arrived (as listed on your screenshot there -- that's the column starting with 938 points for the 47th Division); the total is 21,826, pretty close to the increase in Armaments points used (228,892-206,263).

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 1/31/2008 4:30:40 PM >


_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 8
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 4:34:57 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22531
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
OK - why did the number of both types (42 and 41) of infantry squads in the pook take a sudden jump upwards - i could understand the older type going up if they were being replaced and returned to the pool, but why would the newer type increase dramatically over a day or so?

(in reply to irrelevant)
Post #: 9
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 5:12:20 PM   
Yakface

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

Sent this to my oponent after the last round of LLCU reinforcements. I've now switched off half my armament factories.





Add up the load cost of what arrived (as listed on your screenshot there -- that's the column starting with 938 points for the 47th Division); the total is 21,826, pretty close to the increase in Armaments points used (228,892-206,263).


I'd noticed that too. However, that only removes the questions one step further.....why is the load cost of the divisions only 930, or so, points? Especially when you look at the number armament points represented by the jump in the 41 IJA squads and 42 IJA squads represents much more than 21K on their own?

(in reply to irrelevant)
Post #: 10
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 5:15:11 PM   
Yakface

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

Sent this to my oponent after the last round of LLCU reinforcements. I've now switched off half my armament factories.





Did the reinforcements arrive at full or 1/3 strength?


All of them were full (wouldn't have been best pleased if they arrived at 1/3 strength after I'd carfullly built up a huge armament pool to ensure they arrived at full strength)

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 11
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 5:16:15 PM   
USS America


Posts: 16216
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface


quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

Sent this to my oponent after the last round of LLCU reinforcements. I've now switched off half my armament factories.





Add up the load cost of what arrived (as listed on your screenshot there -- that's the column starting with 938 points for the 47th Division); the total is 21,826, pretty close to the increase in Armaments points used (228,892-206,263).


I'd noticed that too. However, that only removes the questions one step further.....why is the load cost of the divisions only 930, or so, points? Especially when you look at the number armament points represented by the jump in the 41 IJA squads and 42 IJA squads represents much more than 21K on their own?


My Thread, I love being an AFB!!!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 12
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 7:11:32 PM   
irrelevant


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

OK - why did the number of both types (42 and 41) of infantry squads in the pook take a sudden jump upwards - i could understand the older type going up if they were being replaced and returned to the pool, but why would the newer type increase dramatically over a day or so?

The numbers that jumped (circled in red) aren't the number of squads in the pool, they are the number of squads that have been used.

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 13
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 7:13:07 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22531
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

OK - why did the number of both types (42 and 41) of infantry squads in the pook take a sudden jump upwards - i could understand the older type going up if they were being replaced and returned to the pool, but why would the newer type increase dramatically over a day or so?

The numbers that jumped (circled in red) aren't the number of squads in the pool, they are the number of squads that have been used.



OK - that makes sense...

(in reply to irrelevant)
Post #: 14
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 7:14:18 PM   
irrelevant


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

I'd noticed that too. However, that only removes the questions one step further.....why is the load cost of the divisions only 930, or so, points? Especially when you look at the number armament points represented by the jump in the 41 IJA squads and 42 IJA squads represents much more than 21K on their own?

This is the part that I don't understand. IJ divisions are arriving nearly fully filled out at essentially zero cost.

The obvious conclusion is that infantry squads are free! Note that the HQ unit has the correct load cost listed....

Is your game stock or a mod?

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 1/31/2008 7:16:46 PM >


_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 15
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 10:09:16 PM   
BigBadWolf


Posts: 571
Joined: 8/8/2007
From: Serbia
Status: offline
Also, base forces have load cost of 4-5000.

_____________________________


(in reply to irrelevant)
Post #: 16
RE: Armament points - 1/31/2008 10:13:16 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

I'm not really sure about this. By the rules it should take the same number of armaments points as its load cost (20-25k). But I have had divisions arrive and seen essentially no change in my AP pool.

My current suspicion is that the "load cost" listing in the Ground Unit Reinforcement Schedule may be the number of armaments points it will cost to fill the unit out.

There is a thread out there that discusses this, it may be in the "Must Read Threads" thread....

Of course it is! A thread you started, BTW...

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

2. The number of load points produced per Armament Point used varied between 6.3 and 9.9 where the Manual states it should be 1.0.


Post #32: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=961071

_____________________________


(in reply to irrelevant)
Post #: 17
RE: Armament points - 2/1/2008 1:12:51 AM   
ctangus


Posts: 2151
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
Status: offline
A few months ago, after inadvertently emptying my armaments pool & drawing 1/3 size replacements, I did some testing. For both reinforcements & replacements the numbers seem to work out this way:

For most devices armaments cost does equal load cost, with the following exceptions:

Support squads & infantry squads cost 1 armament point each. Certainly not what the manual states. WAD? I dunno - perhaps. It's a lot cheaper to make rifles than an AA gun.

Engineers & aviation support cost 0 points each. That has to be an oops.

I still have the spreadsheet I used. I was using one of the CHS scenarios. The TOEs below are an IJN BF, an IJA BF and a Special Base Force. My formula had predictive value for about a dozen different types of units altogether that I tested.

There was one wildcard. For kicks I also checked out the cost of a Special Base Force in stock. In that case it appeared that the sound detector was free as well. I decided to not try to figure why that was the case 'cause I wasn't planning on playing stock




Attachment (1)

(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 18
RE: Armament points - 2/1/2008 1:19:48 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12119
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

Very interesting.

I'm very curious why IJ BFs never come in fully loaded. Ever. They are always short on support and squads. It matters not what the pools show. They will not come in fully stocked.

(in reply to ctangus)
Post #: 19
RE: Armament points - 2/1/2008 1:28:46 AM   
ctangus


Posts: 2151
Joined: 10/13/2005
From: Boston, Mass.
Status: offline
Well, I believe that's defined in the editor. In CHS at least most base forces are defined to come in at less than their full TO&E. Special base forces come in at full strength, but not those oodles of IJA/IJN/IJNAF base forces. Most naval guard units are defined to come in understrength, too.

Why? I assume there's a valid reason for it but I personally know very little about the RL Japanese OOB.

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 20
RE: Armament points - 2/1/2008 1:30:23 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12119
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

Hmm...that would explain the mechanics of why. Perhaps some knowledgable soul will enlighten us as to the reason for it.

(in reply to ctangus)
Post #: 21
RE: Armament points - 2/1/2008 1:42:35 AM   
Yakface

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

OK - why did the number of both types (42 and 41) of infantry squads in the pook take a sudden jump upwards - i could understand the older type going up if they were being replaced and returned to the pool, but why would the newer type increase dramatically over a day or so?

The numbers that jumped (circled in red) aren't the number of squads in the pool, they are the number of squads that have been used.


Yes - that's what I mean. Like Irrelevant says, there weren't many elements waiting in the pools before the units arrived, and the 'used' column jumped up after the units arrived, so the 41&42 IJA squads must have been produced that turn in order to fill out the new units. In order to produce them, many more than 22K armament points should have been used up.

It's a CHS game. It does seem that the divisions are arriving virtually for free.

< Message edited by Yakface -- 2/1/2008 1:48:01 AM >

(in reply to irrelevant)
Post #: 22
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Armament points Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.234