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RE: Philippine Army OOB Update

 
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RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 12/4/2012 2:21:15 AM   
btbw

 

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Alvis-Straussler Armoured Car was armed with 2x 6.5mm Vickers (for DEI at least)


, like many others Armored Cars which had wrong range 1-2. If compare with REALLY EQUIPPED with 0.5 MG cars like M3A - THEY HAVE RANGE 0!!!!
Can imagine logic of that?

< Message edited by btbw -- 12/4/2012 2:30:30 AM >

(in reply to margeorg)
Post #: 2131
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 12/6/2012 6:08:19 AM   
JeffK


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WITPAE AT START UNITS
AUSTRALIAN ARMY
Working in no WITPAE order, Ive listed slot numbers


I have little complaint about the units chosen to be listed, there were lots of, for example Light Hrse Regiments, which had a short life and where often at about 25% TOE.

But these units were then spread all around the map, few are actually in the correct locations, locations often covered by units which should be elsewhere.

If someone can make corrections to this info, please go ahead and let me know the source. I have basically used the War Diaries from the Australian War Memorial, but have found contradictions so am happy to make changes.

There needs to be bases created to replicate the Seymour/Puckapunyal, Bandiana & Greta/Rutherford/Singleton complexes. (I'll post suggested hexes next)


The Bird units should be Force rather than Bn, Lark Bn is lame, should be Lark Force.

All Tank Attack Rgts s/be Anti Tank Rgts until 6/43

2/11 Armoured Car Rgt should be at Tamworth
5957 has it at Charleville

2/5, 2/6 & 2/7 Arm Rgts should be at Singleton
5967&5968 are at Charleville and 5969 at Newcastle.

2/8, 2/9 & 2/10 Arm Rgts should be at Seymour
5970 is at Mildura and 5971 & 5972 at Broken Hill.

3 Independent Coy should be in Sydney, it left for New Caledonia on 8/12/41,
unit 5987 arrives in Sydney on 25/12/41

2 Recce Bn should be at Beenleigh (Brisbane hex)
6052 is at Cloncurry

1 Cavalry Bde is called 1 Motor Bde, this change doesnt happen until early 1942. AE has it at Cairns but I have 5 Mot Rgt at Gympie & 11 Mot Rgt at Gatton which are about 100km north of Bribane. (I have also seen the Bde at Cairns and its HQ at Toowoomba????)

11 Bde should be at Townsville with 51Bn at Cairns
6039 has the Bde at Brisbane.

47Bn should be at Maryborough and 42 Bn at Yeppoon/Rockhampton. These units become 29 Bde in late January 1942.
AE has 6040 at start at Bundaberg.

53 Bn should be at Sydney getting ready for Pt Moresby,
AE has 5058 at Townsville.

4 Cavalry Bde 6044 wasn't at Bathurst, it was covering the coast south of Pt Kembla, we don't have any bases to cover,Its units were at different towns. For the game Bathurst is the only option.

6 Cavalry Bde should be at Adelaide
6045 has it at Mildura

1st Bde should be at Newcastle
6014 starts at Sydney

5th Bde should be at Sydney
6024 starts at Canberra

8th Bde should have 2Bns in Newcastle and 1Bn Sydney
6023 is in Canberra as well.

14th Bde should be at Newcastle.
6022 is in Wagga

39 Bn should be at Darley Camp, Baccus Marsh. Melbourne would do.
6056 is at Sydney

22 Motor Rgt should be at Brighton Camp. Hobart would do
6053 as at Queenstown

3rd Cavalry Bde should be at Geelong
6043 is 3 Motor Bde at Melbourne, name change comes later

17 LH MG Rgt should be “near” Geelong 6048 is at Mildura

19 LH MG Rgt should be “near” Geelong 6049 has it at Portland

30 Brigade forms at Port Moresby on 3 January 1942, the game has 6055 arriving 420315 and should absorb 39 Bn, 49 Bn & 53 Bn.

109th Tank Attack Rgt 6134 should be 109th Anti Tank Regiment at Perth

4th Bde should be at Bonegilla 6027 is at Melbourne.

10th Bde should be at Seymour 6028 is at Portsea

15th Bde should be at Seymour 6029 is at Sale

2nd Bde should be at Mt Martha (Portsea) 6053 is at Portland

6th Bde should be at Balcombe (Portsea) 6032 is in Adelaide

3rd Bde should be at Adelaide 6060 is at Broken Hill

10 Recce Bn (often called 10 LH Rgt) should be in Perth 6050 is at Geraldton (But often trained in that area)

25 LH MG Bn had companies at Albany, Busselton, Bunbury & Geraldton
6051 is at Albany

44Bn was at Perth
6063 is at Kalgoorlie

49 Bn (less 1 coy) should be at Port Moresby

13 Bde Its Bns (11,16 &28) were in Perth
6011 28Bn is at Busselton

NGVR Coys are listed as NG Rifles

108 Tank Attack Rgt
5961 should be at Seymour

5963 2/4 Arm Rgt starts the game, it was formed 11/42 at Wee Waa (nr Tamworth)

5983 2/1 Independent Company should be 1st Independent Company (and changes name in 1942, it had detachments at Kavieng, Vila, Tulagi, Buka so should not be solely at Kavieng)

5984 2/2 Independent Company should be 2nd Independent Company

5986 should be Kanga Force, not Kanga Force Bn,Was more a Headquaters and consists of many in-game units. ( it was also formed from of 1 Indep Coy, 2/5 Indep Coy & the NGVR.)

6014 1st Infantry Bde should be at Newcastle, not Sydney

6016 18Bn should be at St Ives/Sydney, not Newcastle

6017 41Bn should be at Newcastle as part of 1st Bde,

6018 45Bn should be at Pt Hacking(Sydney), not Port Kembla

6034 32Bn should be at Mt Martha(Portsea) with 2nd Bde, not Mildura

6035 38Bn should be at Balcombe with 6th Bde not Geelong.

6062 Port Moresby Bde Doesn't exist, Port Moresby had 49 Bn(-1 coy) and Papuan Inf Bn.

Wren Force should be Nauru Force (changed 8/41)

Heron Force should be Ocean Force (maybe Ocean Is Force?)

2/16 Field Rgt should be 16 Field Rgt

21/22 Field Rgt should be individual units until merged.





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Post #: 2132
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 12/6/2012 7:00:53 PM   
Natali

 

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That is so cool JeffK. Thank you for posting that.

A question for you and And Mac. Will anything of this hurt the AI? I have a very hard box to work in and the AI is stone wall. If it won't hurt the AI, I will use all of it I can for the BabesLite update and the 42 scenario.

Regards, Sam.

edited for typing faster than the brain works

< Message edited by Natali -- 12/6/2012 7:05:29 PM >

(in reply to JeffK)
Post #: 2133
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 12/7/2012 1:50:37 AM   
Don Bowen


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I believe that the detachments on Ocean and Nauru Islands were indeed called Wren Force and Heron Force. Thet were formed from 13 Field Regiment, the bulk of which was at Port Moresby.

The "Bird" forces, as far as I can find, were:

Sparrow - Timor
Gull - Ambon
Lark - Rabaul
Wren - Nauru Island
Heron - Ocean Island
Robin - Noumea (installing Coast Defense guns).

I've always suspected that the 2/1st Ind. Coy at Kavieng (and other locations**) would have had a "bird" identity but have never been able to find anything on the subject.

** Namatanai (New Ireland), Manus Island, Buka, Tulagi, Vila (New Hebrides)

(in reply to JeffK)
Post #: 2134
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 12/7/2012 2:56:43 AM   
JeffK


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Not correct Don.

There was a force sent to Naura & Ocean Is and named as Wren & Heron Force.

On their relief in August 1941 the names were changed to Nauru Force & Ocean Force (caould be Ocean Is Force??)

1st Independent Company at the locations you list & 2nd Independent Company were not part of a "Bird Force".
2 Ind Coy worked closely with Sparrow, 2 Ind Coy was tasked with Portuguese Timor(Dili) and Sparrow was to hold Koepang.

You can find the War Diaries of Wren/Nauru, Heron/Ocean and the Independent Companies at the Australian War Memorial

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Post #: 2135
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 12/7/2012 3:34:41 AM   
Don Bowen


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is this it: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/records/awm52/1/5/60/awm52-1-5-60-1.pdf

if so, I'll most certainly take your word for it. Long, not searchable, and quite mundane.

Besides, it's obvious that you know what you are talking about.

(in reply to JeffK)
Post #: 2136
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 12/7/2012 5:59:41 AM   
JeffK


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Long, not searchable, and quite mundane.
Not searchable, half of therm are not readable!

But they provide an interesting insight in the mobilzation of the Australian Army for the war in the SW Pacific and the defence of Australia.

What we take for granted, or was easy for a highly mechanised country, was a far bigger effort for a country that didnt have a car industry and only assemblied wooden framed biplanes.

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Post #: 2137
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 12/8/2012 10:16:57 PM   
JeffK


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To enable allocation of Australian Army units above at least 3 bases need to be added,they can be 0/0 as no major airfields were associated with them.

Seymour Hex 82,169 Represents the Seymour/Puckapunyal complex.
Bandiana Hex 84,169
Greta Hex 90,165 (Or 1 hex further away from Newcastle) Represents the Greta/Rutherford/Singleton complex.

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Post #: 2138
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 1/8/2013 5:35:22 PM   
Warrant officer 0/0

 

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? about a TOE upgrade for the US 102nd (sep.) regiment: It lists
17 T14 light tanks. I believe these are supposed to be converted
Dutch tanks,right? I do not see them listed in the pool.



WO 0/0

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Post #: 2139
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 1/9/2013 1:34:13 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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No new bases will be added because of impact on AI

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Post #: 2140
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 1/10/2013 2:56:04 AM   
Blackhorse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Warrant officer 0/0

? about a TOE upgrade for the US 102nd (sep.) regiment: It lists
17 T14 light tanks. I believe these are supposed to be converted
Dutch tanks,right? I do not see them listed in the pool.
WO 0/0


Yes, these are tankettes originally built for the Netherlands for the DEI, then diverted to US units after the DEI fell. Officially, these were Marmon-Herrington CTLS-4TAYs and CTLS-4TACs (TAYs had turrets on the right front, TACs on the left front, but were otherwise identical) but known as the T-14 in US service. Historically, they were mostly used for training or in Alaska (see pic below). A few were found in the South Pacific and Australia.

The US gets 200 T14s in the pool in April, 1942. Some of the Separate Infantry Regiments have a TO&E upgrade that month; each regiment can receive 17 T14s.

There is no production. Once they're gone, they're gone. I don't think you will miss them too much.



< Message edited by Blackhorse -- 1/10/2013 2:57:25 AM >


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Post #: 2141
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 1/10/2013 4:12:57 AM   
JeffK


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The Australian Army used them as training tanks in the Armoured Regiments but I believe some were deployed to Merauke and attached to 62 Bn for a short time.

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RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 1/10/2013 4:18:41 AM   
witpqs

 

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They look useful for beer runs.

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Post #: 2143
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 1/10/2013 4:56:35 AM   
JeffK


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I dont think they would hold enough for more than the crew!

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Post #: 2144
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 1/11/2013 5:37:27 PM   
Warrant officer 0/0

 

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Where did you find that photo?

I can see the T14 listed in the database, but it does not
appear in the pool list. It's not a big issue,if,like you say,
we get 200 in 4/42,as i am at 2/43.
Just trying to figure out where they went.


WO 0/0

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Post #: 2145
RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 1/12/2013 2:05:32 PM   
Blackhorse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Warrant officer 0/0

Where did you find that photo?

I can see the T14 listed in the database, but it does not
appear in the pool list. It's not a big issue,if,like you say,
we get 200 in 4/42,as i am at 2/43.
Just trying to figure out where they went.


WO 0/0


The photo can be found in several places on the internet. Here's one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marmon_Herrington_Tanks_LOC_fsa_8e09169u.jpg

I don't know what causes a device to show up on the pool list, or not. I'm sorry I can't help you there.


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RE: Philippine Army OOB Update - 1/12/2013 9:08:46 PM   
Reg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

They look useful for beer runs.


You have to put them in context. They were comparable to anything the Japanese had at the time.... (though I certainly wouldn't have taken them to Europe).



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Post #: 2147
China bases - 5/10/2013 2:20:42 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Am tinkering around with the China map and OOB. Found some maps showing that the entire east bank of the lower Yellow River had been occupied by the Japanese from Haichow up to Tsiaotso (hex 88,42) by 1941. But in stock, two bases on the east bank are still in Chinese hands - Tsiaotso and Kweiteh (90,46). Also found bits of info via google pointing to the fact that both cities were Japanese-occupied. Am looking for more info about unit locations in the area, esp. the Japanese troops at Tsiaotso.

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RE: China bases - 7/10/2013 7:04:58 PM   
BigDuke66


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Scenario 001 Full Campaign:
Please check the M10 Wolverine TD, first I wonder if the start of production in June 43 is OK as I read that it already started in June 42 besides that there is a TD unit that comes already equipped with M10s in May 42 the 632nd Tank Destroyer Battalion ID 5136.

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Post #: 2149
RE: China bases - 7/10/2013 10:59:53 PM   
wdolson

 

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There are a number of planes and devices that were in production for some time before any were sent to the Pacific. Some also stop getting sent to the Pacific, but remain in production. For example the B-17 discontinues in 1942 and you don't get B-17G again until 1945. All production was going to Europe until VE Day.

The M-10 was in production, but all went to Europe and the Med until the numbers got high enough in theater and a few were allowed to go to the Pacific. The M-4 Sherman first saw combat in October 1942, but it didn't see any action in the Pacific until the Tarawa invasion in November 1943 where only 14 were available. 5 of those were lost wading to the beach. More were lost in accidents with obstacles after landing.

The US tank allocations to the Pacific were particularly thin because Japanese armor was easily combated with older Allied tanks and it was rarely encountered. The terrain of most Pacific battles did not favor widespread use of tracked armor and all the most modern tanks and tank destroyers the US could produce were badly needed to fight the Germans who began employing tanks a generation newer than the Sherman in 1943 (a few in late 1942, but they began arriving on the battlefields in force in 1943).

Bill

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Post #: 2150
RE: China bases - 7/11/2013 6:27:26 PM   
BigDuke66


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Thanks but it still wonders me why we get M10s before production officially started at all, as said the earliest date I find is June 1942 more seem to point to September 1942

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RE: China bases - 7/11/2013 8:35:18 PM   
wdolson

 

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It appears to be an error. From what I can see, the 632nd did not get M-10s until early 1944. I think they were issued towed guns before that.

The first use of the M-10 in the Pacific was during the invasion of Kwajalein in January 1944. It sounds like June 43 might be a bit early.

Bill

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TD Bn - 7/12/2013 10:52:11 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


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Good find, BigDuke

There are at least four TD Bns which arrive in 1942 with a TOE of 1943/44: 632nd, 637th, 627th and 640th TD Bns

All have M-10 in 1942.

Furthermore, their TOE show 6x M8 Armored Car - but the M8 did enter serial production only in March 1943.

And they have 43 Recce Squads as well.

I have created a 41 TD Bn TOE which upgrades to the current (43) TOE.

The 41 TOE has 41 Recce Squads instead of the 43 variety, M3 75mm GMC Halftracks instead of M-10 and no M8s.

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Post #: 2153
RE: TD Bn - 7/21/2013 3:50:28 AM   
BigDuke66


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Scenario 001 Full Campaign:
I think the 22nd (East African) Brigade comes much too early into the game.
Just check these links:
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=4
http://stonebooks.com/history/madagascar.shtml
http://homepages.force9.net/rothwell/22ea.htm
Especially the last and look under "Theater", seems to me that the unit didn't get into the South-Asian Theater before 10th July 1944 when it left for Ceylon.

At least it should get a restricted HQ so the player has to pay PP to get it and even than it should be available before the fighting on Madagascar is done.

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Post #: 2154
RE: China bases - 7/27/2013 11:43:45 AM   
inqistor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

It appears to be an error. From what I can see, the 632nd did not get M-10s until early 1944. I think they were issued towed guns before that.

The first use of the M-10 in the Pacific was during the invasion of Kwajalein in January 1944. It sounds like June 43 might be a bit early.

Bill

Yup, they were issued towed guns, although I am not sure I have seen OOB with SOLELY towed guns. I would have to check, but I do not recall any mid-replacements in OOB. It was either towed AT gun, or Tank Destroyer.

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Post #: 2155
RE: TD Bn - 7/27/2013 10:26:46 PM   
JeffK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Scenario 001 Full Campaign:
I think the 22nd (East African) Brigade comes much too early into the game.
Just check these links:
http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=4
http://stonebooks.com/history/madagascar.shtml
http://homepages.force9.net/rothwell/22ea.htm
Especially the last and look under "Theater", seems to me that the unit didn't get into the South-Asian Theater before 10th July 1944 when it left for Ceylon.

At least it should get a restricted HQ so the player has to pay PP to get it and even than it should be available before the fighting on Madagascar is done.

There is a problem in that the Brigade formed part of the Diego Suarez, Seychelles and Mauritius garrisons while being part of Islands Command which included Madagascar and was controlled from East Africa.
Should at least be restricted.

< Message edited by JeffK -- 7/27/2013 10:29:28 PM >


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