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Learning the rules?

 
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Learning the rules? - 12/1/2007 6:02:54 AM   
sveint


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I never played the board game. What would be the best way to learn the rules?
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RE: Learning the rules? - 12/1/2007 6:07:28 AM   
sveint


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Oh, and how long (in hours) will an average game (the computer version) take?

I saw a comparison to War in the Pacific, which is scary, I am never again touching anything like that.

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RE: Learning the rules? - 12/1/2007 10:19:39 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

I never played the board game. What would be the best way to learn the rules?

There is a thread at the top of this forum which gives links to the tutorials. I wrote the tutorials so they would be"the best way to learn the rules", or at least that was what I was/am trying to do. The intrductory tutorials are 95% done and they cover the basics of the game. The interactive tutorials (not written yet) will cover the player interface mostly.

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RE: Learning the rules? - 12/1/2007 10:23:41 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Oh, and how long (in hours) will an average game (the computer version) take?

I saw a comparison to War in the Pacific, which is scary, I am never again touching anything like that.

Well, World in Flanmes is not for the faint of heart. It is quite different from War in the Pacific in many respects, but both take a long time to play. There are a couple of short (5 turn) scenarios and there are other scenarios that start at different points in the war. But most players want to play the full global war sceanrio (36 turns) starting in Sept 1939 through to August 1945 - the best estimate I've seen is for that to take about 150 hours of playing time.

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RE: Learning the rules? - 12/1/2007 2:02:34 PM   
Yohan

 

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It is indeed a long game but you are not mired in the minutia like WitP.

The board game can take almost a year to play one night a week but is eminently replayable. You are focused on the major aspects of the war, political, production and military which gives it the loyal, dare I say obsessed, audience it has gathered world wide.

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RE: Learning the rules? - 12/1/2007 7:35:24 PM   
grisouille

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

I never played the board game. What would be the best way to learn the rules?



You can also read the rules : download the rules file (word document) from the ADG website -> see The raw7 Aug04 and scenario RTF thread in the top of the forum

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RE: Learning the rules? - 12/2/2007 1:12:33 AM   
brian brian

 

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after some browsing of the rules the best way to learn the game is to set up the Barbarossa scenario and dive on in and then learn each rule as you need it as you work through the sequence of play on the first turn. just skip all the naval rules for now, ditto production. Barbarossa is very familiar to anyone with an interest in WWII and the situation is easy to grasp. you can just play the heck out of that scenario and then move on to the Guadalcanal scenario, which gets into some of the trickier rules but is also a short scenario with easy to grasp operational basics. After those two I would suggest any of the mid-war scenarios to get a handle on world wide operations and the nuances of selecting impulse types.

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RE: Learning the rules? - 12/3/2007 8:43:07 PM   
composer99


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Also, don't expect to ever completely "learn" the rules. Even long-time players can go almost a whole game and play something wrong (i.e., in my game we discovered in '43 that we'd been playing convoy point ASW factors wrong all game till then).

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RE: Learning the rules? - 12/3/2007 10:12:47 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

Also, don't expect to ever completely "learn" the rules. Even long-time players can go almost a whole game and play something wrong (i.e., in my game we discovered in '43 that we'd been playing convoy point ASW factors wrong all game till then).

The computer will solve a lot of these types of problems by not permitting violations. And to keep the players knowledgeable about what the computer is doing, ...

Yesterday I inserted help buttons for 90+ forms, so you can click on help to read the section of rules pertaining to that form. In the case of submarine naval combat, the ASW of convoys would be part of the help description for the form.

I still have to insert all the text (help descriptions) into the massive Help file I created, but the ground work for that is now in place. To create the text, I'll cut and paste from the RAC (Rules as Coded) which will be a modified clone of RAW (Rules as Written).
------
So, getting back to the thread's topic, you do not have to memorize the rules, in their entirety, with perfect recall, to play MWIF. Reference material will be available a click away. And what you will see when you click is not some index or search option into a massive document (which I detest), but a paragraph or two about the precise point in your current sequence of play.

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Post #: 9
RE: Learning the rules? - 12/4/2007 10:40:28 PM   
sveint


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This looks very promising. Since the computer is doing all the book-keeping, games should go much faster than the board version.

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Post #: 10
RE: Learning the rules? - 12/4/2007 11:25:20 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

This looks very promising. Since the computer is doing all the book-keeping, games should go much faster than the board version.

Book-keeping, and counters & stacks handling .
Yes, a lot time saved.

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Post #: 11
RE: Learning the rules? - 12/12/2007 10:07:25 PM   
abj9562


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

I never played the board game. What would be the best way to learn the rules?


Well as I see it there are two choices.

1) Send your spouse, kids, and pets if you have any of these on a superb vacation and lock yourself in your house with lots of coffee for a few weeks.

or

2) Enjoy the game and and it will return a lifetime of pleasure, opening its secrets to you upon each rereading, replaying, and analysis of the game. Most of us here are addicted to the game in a pleasent sort of way that allows us to be armchair generals and politicians in one of the most decisive times in the history of the world.

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Post #: 12
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/16/2008 10:42:57 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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There are several threads where I might have posted this. This one was closest to the top.
----------
Here is what I expect the context sensitive help to look like (box on the right). The help description of lend leasing air units was displayed when the player clicked on the Help button in the lower right of the Lend Lease Air Units form.

Most of the text is taken straight from RAC (Rules as Coded). The Process section was inserted to describe how to use the form.

[Yes, I know the unit in the help example doesn't match the one selected on the left.]

Comments?




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 13
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 7:21:32 AM   
Zorachus99


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Place the name of the country above or below the flag.  I figured out China from unit color, it could be New Zealand for all I know, (ok I know thats wrong but...).

I'm very eager to see the form and how it appears in netplay.  If the example here is what you see in Netplay, I'd recommend making the left side near the cancel request button in bold some way, so that it indicates that the player is waiting for a response.  Perhaps the word, 'Requested' in bold, below the unit?


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Post #: 14
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 11:31:11 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

Place the name of the country above or below the flag.  I figured out China from unit color, it could be New Zealand for all I know, (ok I know thats wrong but...).

I'm very eager to see the form and how it appears in netplay.  If the example here is what you see in Netplay, I'd recommend making the left side near the cancel request button in bold some way, so that it indicates that the player is waiting for a response.  Perhaps the word, 'Requested' in bold, below the unit?


Country names are a good addition. I don't know about the other though. Three reasons:
1 - That the unit is requested is shown under the units above (Rqstd).
2 - There might be multiple requests made at once, so highlighting just one of them doesn't seem right.
3 - I want to have some general way of informing players when they are waiting on other players. That will be almost always true for someone. Having a special way saying that for this form also seems wrong. What I want is a standard presentation with a context specific message. In this case it would say something about waiting for the US player to decide about a lend lease request.

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Post #: 15
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 1:48:58 PM   
oscar72se

 

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The only MPs that exist are:
- China (Nationalist and Communist)
- CW
- Germany
- Japan
- Italy
- USA
- USSR

It shouldn't be entirely impossible for the players to learn these flags... Or?

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Post #: 16
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 1:53:50 PM   
brian brian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

There are several threads where I might have posted this. This one was closest to the top.



nice and quiet in here. YAY playtesting!

the form looks good. I would only suggest considering leading the players directly to this form after the force pool additions form or process or what have you.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 17
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 1:56:05 PM   
bredsjomagnus

 

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quote:


The only MPs that exist are:
- China (Nationalist and Communist)
- CW
- Germany
- Japan
- Italy
- USA
- USSR

It shouldn't be entirely impossible for the players to learn these flags... Or?


I agree but isn´t France and Vichy France also considered MPs?

/Magnus

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Post #: 18
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 1:58:10 PM   
Manfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: oscar72se

The only MPs that exist are:
- China (Nationalist and Communist)
- CW
- Germany
- Japan
- Italy
- USA
- USSR

It shouldn't be entirely impossible for the players to learn these flags... Or?


I think you forgot one


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RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 4:35:15 PM   
oscar72se

 

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Ooops! Sorry about that... Forgot about France.

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Post #: 20
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 7:56:20 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

There are several threads where I might have posted this. This one was closest to the top.



nice and quiet in here. YAY playtesting!

the form looks good. I would only suggest considering leading the players directly to this form after the force pool additions form or process or what have you.

Since the post I added a check box to the lower left of the help form. It is for disabling the automatic popup of the form.

Basically, every form has a Help Message which is automatically shown the first time the form is displayed. It will continue to be shown automatically unless the player checks the box to not do that. The help button is omnipresent on forms so it is easy enough for the player to view the Help Message associated with a form whenever he wants.

My intent here is to be slightly aggressive about showing the help messages - hence they automatically display the first time. But the program keeps track of which ones you have disabled (all 90+ forms and 80+ places in the senquence of play) from game to game, so you really only see each one once if you click the little buttons.

I believe it will be useful to let the more unusual forms continue to appear automatically, but disable that action for the forms with which you do not need any more help.

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Post #: 21
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 8:45:49 PM   
sw30

 

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Free France and Vichy France are separate MPs from France, but Communist China and Nationalist China are treated as one MP (except for certain special Chinese wierdness.)

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Post #: 22
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/17/2008 9:49:45 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sw30

Free France and Vichy France are separate MPs from France, but Communist China and Nationalist China are treated as one MP (except for certain special Chinese wierdness.)

Yes.

For the Lend Lease Air Units form though, Communist China, Vichy France, and even Japan are never involved.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 23
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/18/2008 2:28:33 AM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: oscar72se

Ooops! Sorry about that... Forgot about France.

Thats bad

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RE: Learning the rules? - 1/19/2008 11:39:17 AM   
cockney

 

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France? are they the cheese eating surender monkeys?



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RE: Learning the rules? - 1/19/2008 1:03:40 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cockney

France? are they the cheese eating surender monkeys?

Yeah, frog leg eaters too.

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Post #: 26
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/19/2008 3:45:28 PM   
Mziln


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: cockney

France? are they the cheese eating surender monkeys?

Yeah, frog leg eaters too.


I like frog legs and am not French


The modern bikini was invented by French engineer Louis Réard and Jacques Heim in Paris in 1946.

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Post #: 27
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/21/2008 10:19:52 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Here is another context sensitive help writeup. I had to split this into two posts - the first is the scrap form that the CW sees when they start Guadalcanal. I have loaded a default scrap list already. The second post is the context senitive help that displays when the Help button is pressed.




Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 28
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/21/2008 10:23:32 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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And here is the text that goes with the previous post. On the screen it would scroll vertically. I have cut and pasted several screen shots so you can see all the text.

This is one of the first forms that a player will see when actually playing the game. So I have given quite a lot of background information on the Force Pool prior to describing scrapping.

Comments?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 29
RE: Learning the rules? - 1/22/2008 8:08:30 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Here is my daily Context Sensitive Help writeup.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 30
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