Matrix Games Forums

Deal of the Week Pride of NationsTo End All Wars Releasing on Steam! Slitherine is recruiting: Programmers requiredPandora: Eclipse of Nashira gets release dateCommunity impressions of To End All WarsAgeod's To End All Wars is now availableTo End All Wars is now available!Deal of the Week: Field of GloryTo End All Wars: Video, AAR and Interview!Ageod's To End All Wars: Video, AAR and Interview!
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Lessons learned and reviewed

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/13/2008 3:12:07 AM   
bobogoboom


Posts: 3762
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: Dallas
Status: offline
thanks trollelite

(in reply to darken92)
Post #: 91
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/13/2008 4:48:49 AM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline
If I understand your observation, it is that you think it unlikely that a small number of hits would necessarily find the critical point on a cruiser. I suppose that is a fair point. But in the real event that was WW2, that sort of thing happened on numerous occasions. HMS Hood. Then Bismarck. USS Arizona. Possibly in the demise of IJN Yamato. And if you press in close to shore batteries, they can (and should if they're trained as naval cost defense) hit ships engaging in shore bombardment.

And BTW the Japanese aircraft carriers at Midway did not have their decks covered with fueld a.c. waiting to take off. Japanese CVs were vulnerable compared to either USN or RN CVs.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to bobogoboom)
Post #: 92
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/13/2008 10:37:49 AM   
bobogoboom


Posts: 3762
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: Dallas
Status: offline
why do you think the japs didn't take on the shore batteries at singapore or manilla. and why do you think the americans skipped truck.


_____________________________

I feel like I'm Han Solo, and you're Chewie, and she's Ben Kenobi, and we're in that bar.
Member Texas Thread Mafia.

Sig art by rogueusmc

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 93
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/13/2008 12:15:05 PM   
Rapunzel


Posts: 141
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Germany
Status: offline
Good game from you and GH! It is very interesting to follow both of you. I even consider an assault of india in my next pbem ;)

(in reply to bobogoboom)
Post #: 94
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/13/2008 10:54:07 PM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
1942, Mar, 17

ASW attack at 20,3

Japanese Ships
DD Namikaze
DD Hokaze
DD Nokaze

Allied Ships
SS KXVII

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 14,1

Japanese Ships
SS I-157

Allied Ships
AP Lancashire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Karachi at 21,3

Japanese Ships
DD Uzuki, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Sazanami
DD Akebono
DD Asagiri
DD Akatsuki
DD Harusame
DD Arare
DD Asagumo
DD Minegumo
DD Natsugumo
DD Yukikaze
DD Akigumo

Allied Ships
SS KXVII, hits 2

ASW attack near Karachi at 21,3

Japanese Ships
DD Sazanami
DD Akebono
DD Asagiri
DD Akatsuki
DD Harusame
DD Arare
DD Asagumo
DD Minegumo
DD Natsugumo
DD Yukikaze
DD Akigumo

Allied Ships
SS KXVII, hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 20,6

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Murakumo
DD Yugure
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsuharu
DD Kawakaze
DD Yamagumo

Allied Ships
SS O20

Sub attack at 20,6

Japanese Ships
DD Asagumo, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Sazanami
DD Akebono
DD Asagiri
DD Akatsuki
DD Harusame
DD Arare
DD Minegumo
DD Natsugumo
DD Yukikaze
DD Akigumo

Allied Ships
SS O20, hits 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 14,1

Japanese Ships
SS I-157

Allied Ships
AP Warwick Castle


More disappointment.

After very disappointing result of some event yesterday this obviously would not improve my mood. I hope you could understand I sometimes do need some complains to balance this. His subs sink our warships with impunity, and those warships are nothing more than destroyers assagined to asw group themselves. And ours cannot even hope to hit unescorted AP. I remember our submarine can only hit one time out of 2 chances with unescorted ships. So allies torpedo dud rate is largely offset, because a torpeodo misses is no better than dud itself.

Think how my submarine would fare if met with so many allies dd, it most likely turn to be end of that SS.

(in reply to Rapunzel)
Post #: 95
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/14/2008 12:07:45 AM   
Capt Henry

 

Posts: 101
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline
I can certainly see where it's frustrating to ASW against allied subs. I find the U.S S-boats and the British and Dutch subs to be the toughest opponents early in the war as they aren't carrying the torpedoes with the high dud rate. I suspect that will be an ongoing problem for naval support of a drive on Karachi. There aren't many places for your ships to be as you're moving against a fixed point, so GH can concentrate subs against you. At least in a couple of instances thes subs attacked your ASW task froces instead of hitting BBs every time.

With regard to Allied ASW being superior to Japanese, I think there is considerable evidence that allied asw was actually superior to the Japanese. Even if we assume equal ability to hunt subs, allied destroyers have double to quadruple the anti-sub weaponry. Have you tried using carrier air assets on ASW patrol? The KB should have a high skill level to use against subs. Could you reserve the heavy carriers for anti-ship work in case the Royal Navy shows up and use the light carriers for CAP and ASW? You should be also to keep your carriers just out of range of Karachi while still covering a large area.


(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 96
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/14/2008 2:37:32 AM   
Fishbed


Posts: 1649
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline
(sorry - basically same stuff as Capt Henry)

But by the way, is sub doctrina on or off?

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 1/14/2008 4:20:22 AM >

(in reply to Capt Henry)
Post #: 97
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/14/2008 6:27:30 PM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
Well, don't misunderstand me, while I certainly don't like this result, I do accept the rule of game and history, just like to whine somewhat...

While his liners escape unscathed is disappointing, we do run a high risk as sending damaged battleships to bombardment. However, its a bad idea to let an already paralyzed Karachi have chance to recover.

After some careless and bad turns the situation is now considered to be again under control. I made some mistakes, and GH, too. Anyway, his sand is running out, not only in one place, but in multiple theaters.  His error largely offset my careless movement. We shall see if our force could punish his miscalculation swiftly.

(in reply to Fishbed)
Post #: 98
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/14/2008 6:31:20 PM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
KB ASW, yeah, we tried that. We use about 500 aircrafts to do that, for one week, and many allies subs is not far away, some in the same hex, and the farest is 3 hexes away. However, none is hit. Actually we did quite well against my former allies opponent. But that time it operated in southern Pacific, with good weather. And this time we met almost continous T storm. My aircrafts do find sub many times, however none hit is reported. Change setting from asw mission to naval search and change back, nothing helps. D3A, B5N, H8K and G4M, and of course the infamous sallys, it seems none could pose any threat to sub in T storm. But how could those damned sub so easily find our ships in a hex 60x60 miles...

< Message edited by trollelite -- 1/14/2008 6:32:48 PM >

(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 99
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/14/2008 7:53:44 PM   
Capt Henry

 

Posts: 101
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline
Do you recall what alititude you were operating at? There has been some discussion over the years regarding optimal altitude for ASW and Naval Search missions. My recollection is that ASW was 1,000 feet and Search was 6,000. There has also been discussion on which mission works better. I'm sure someone with better recall than mine can provide better information. ASW is also a great way to build up pilot experience (at least until AE comes out).

(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 100
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/14/2008 9:40:06 PM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
ASW attack at 19,7

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 32
PC Ch 18
PC Ch 17
PC Ch 13
PC Takunan Maru #5
PC Shonan Maru #17
PC Shonan Maru #6
PC Kyo Maru #12
PC Gamitsu Maru #1

Allied Ships
SS Narwhal, hits 3,  on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 19,7

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 32
PC Ch 18
PC Ch 17
PC Ch 13
PC Takunan Maru #5
PC Shonan Maru #17
PC Shonan Maru #6
PC Kyo Maru #12
PC Gamitsu Maru #1
PC Fumi Maru
APD Patrol Boat No. 39
APD Patrol Boat No. 38
APD Patrol Boat No. 37
APD Patrol Boat No. 36

Allied Ships
SS Narwhal, hits 17,  heavy damage

Well, compared with those incompetent aircrafts, THIS is obviously more direct... Still, only one direct hit is registered, and with Karachi only 4  hex away, she still could be saved...

(in reply to Capt Henry)
Post #: 101
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/14/2008 9:41:56 PM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
I think the problem is mainly to do with T storm. But he would not face the same problem, by the time he returns, he would have tons of excellent ASW ships with him, so he doesn't need aircrafts to hunt my submarine. 

(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 102
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/14/2008 11:14:49 PM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
Its clear allies would not suffer any of our problem. We sent 2 subs to Kwa, and one get sunk immediately by his bombers. I don't think he has even one third of our bombers, and Kwa is 5 hex from nearest allies bases, not 2 hex. Still...

No wonder so many souls like allies side. Any his opponent's slightest error would be punished most swiftly, and his error could mostly escapes unpunished due to superior allies hardware. I wonder there is any other game in market allows such enjoyment..  Weaker player's paradise.

(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 103
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/15/2008 11:43:12 AM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
It's surprising that allies has a huge army in Karachi, even bigger than I expected. Except for 18th Division, it seems element of AIF 7th Division also arrived. Besides, he managed to evacuate cadre of some brigades destroyed in singapore there. Such as 27th AIF Brigade, 6th India, or so. And with a total AV of 27XX, there must be more than 120,000 troops in that damned harbor... It would be a bad business to invest on something already hopeless. Let's see how quick this madness could end...

In the other side of theater, fall of Calcutta removed any major threat to our flank, with relative few friendly losses. We use only 1 division and some naval infantry, but augment them with hundreds of tanks. Those colonial troops fear tanks, the books tell us so...

(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 104
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/15/2008 11:48:35 AM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
You know why many players get a bloody nose in Luzon? Because they don't deploy tanks there. With 2 tank regiments you don't get much adventage against garrison. They have 2 tank bataillons, too. But with 10  regiments they would fall quickly.

Your tanks would do well against allies. Later they would become useless, as allies infantry's anti tank value rocket from 5 to 75. So use them when they still useful. Don't fear to lose tanks. Even you don't lose any, they would auto replaced by new type of tanks and then rot in the pool. Once old ones end in the pool, they are as good as destroyed, cannot be reused anymore.

(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 105
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/15/2008 12:45:05 PM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
Sub attack near Truk  at 66,78

Japanese Ships
AP Kiyosumi Maru, Shell hits 7

Allied Ships
SS Cuttlefish


He ravaged our Q ship with .5 inch bullets.  Our ship responded with a single salvo of 21 inch Type 95 torpedos, but missed! So fish get lucky this time...

(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 106
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/20/2008 9:18:22 PM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
GH makes Karachi a real FORTRESS.... However, to do so he seriously weaken defence of other place, so we conquer Bengal almost effortless. Is that a good strategy? We shall see.

And he finally pull his submarines out of Karachi area, after losing 2 of them and another 2 suffered damage. Japanese ASW power is inferior, but this doesn't means it's negligible.

(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 107
RE: Lessons learned and reviewed - 1/22/2008 2:57:03 AM   
trollelite

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline
GH is abandoning clark field...interesting... We are preparing both a long siege and defence against a desperate all out assualt.

(in reply to trollelite)
Post #: 108
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: Lessons learned and reviewed Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.180