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Can we clear up the game features?

 
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Can we clear up the game features? - 10/18/2007 6:42:06 PM   
cdbeck


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Ok, I don't want to start a flame-war, because I am honestly interested in this game. I've been watching it for a long time, but I have to say that I am still way confused as to what the game is bringing to the table (and this has changed several time throughout the many years of development). So I thought, maybe someone could come by, avid forum readers, devs, or Martix people, to help list some features, characteristics, and options in the game.

Part of what started my curiosity was a debate in another thread about the differences between this game and the AGEOD game coming out. While I knew they were different, I didn't exactly know how... which bothered me.

Here are some frequently asked questions (some of which I know the answers to, and will answer myself for those wanting to know).

1. Who are the playable sides and what is the max number of players?
A: Well, according to this screenshot, this looks to be France, Russia, Prussia, Turkey, Spain, Great Britain, and Austria. So 7 players, with both AI and humans available.

2. Will EiA include some sort of political and diplomatic element?
A: Well, I think so. It has been said that it would. However, I don't know what this entails. Can someone enlighten us?

3. Is this game played in distinct turns, like Risk, GGWAW, or Crown of Glory, or is it played in impulses like Guns of August?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER

4. What types of units (land and naval) can I produce and can I rename them?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER

5. What does this game look like? What does the map look like? How much of the map of the world can I use for my conquests? Are those few available screenshots accurate?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER

6. How does a player receive generals and leaders? Are they produced, do they arrive at historical times? Are they randomly generated? Can they die, and how?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER

Ok, that is a good start for an FAQ, and hopefully some people can answer my questions and can expand upon this. Again, I am not trying to start a huge debate. Rather, I am trying to collect all of the information on this game in one, easy to locate place, in order to help promote the features of the game (which are woefully absent from the game's page on the main site).

SoM

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade
Post #: 1
RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/18/2007 8:47:26 PM   
napoleonbuff

 

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These responses are based on the boardgame, but it sounds like the computer version will be the same/similar as regards these issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort
1. Who are the playable sides and what is the max number of players?
A: Well, according to this screenshot, this looks to be France, Russia, Prussia, Turkey, Spain, Great Britain, and Austria. So 7 players, with both AI and humans available.

Correct.

2. Will EiA include some sort of political and diplomatic element?
A: Well, I think so. It has been said that it would. However, I don't know what this entails. Can someone enlighten us?

The game includes a political component where you can gain additional political points (which lead to victory points) by giving up money or manpower (or both), or you do do the reverse. Also, your political status impacts your chances of gaining control of minor countries. Declaring war, winning/losing wars, conquering or gaining control of minors, winning/losing battles -- all impact your political standing.

As for diplomacy, you can wheel and deal with other countries and even move/fight in concert. Also, peace treaties have enforced terms, which always include a minimum amount of time before war can be resumed.


3. Is this game played in distinct turns, like Risk, GGWAW, or Crown of Glory, or is it played in impulses like Guns of August?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER

Within each turn there are various phases (reinforcement, movement, etc), and each country takes its individual turn within each phase according a pre-determined order that varies from phase to phase (France can vary its order during land movement/combat to setup double moves, while Britain can do the same during naval movement/combat).

4. What types of units (land and naval) can I produce and can I rename them?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER

This will vary somewhat from the boardgame, but in the boardgame you have infantry, cavalry, artillery, militia, guard and ships. Also, the Russians get a few special cossack units, while the Austrians and Prussians each have one freikorps unit (if I recall correctly). It sounds like the computer game will include different types of ships: light, heavy and transport.

The troops/ships do not have names. They are simply factors that are placed within corps/fleets (the corps are named -- don't know if you'll be allowed to re-name). Different corps can hold different numbers/types of factors. For example, per the boardgame the French I Corps can hold up to 25 infantry/militia and 3 cavalry; the French Imperial Guard can hold up to 20 guard and 3 cavalry; the British I Corps can hold up to 14 infantry/militia and the British Cavalry Corps can hold up to 8 cavalry. I believed these numbers might be different for the computer version, but it should give you the general idea.


5. What does this game look like? What does the map look like? How much of the map of the world can I use for my conquests? Are those few available screenshots accurate?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER

The boardgame map includes Europe all the way to just behind Moscow, plus North Africa, Syria and Palestine. As far as I'm aware, the computer game will be the same (though with some minor modifications within those areas).

6. How does a player receive generals and leaders? Are they produced, do they arrive at historical times? Are they randomly generated? Can they die, and how?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER

Leaders are added to your available pool at various times. They can be added to/removed from the board during the reinforcement phase. They can be wounded, captured and even die. Unless something has changed, they aren't removed at fixed points (so as long as Charles doesn't die, the Austrians can use him all the way through the end of the game).


(in reply to cdbeck)
Post #: 2
RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/18/2007 9:58:16 PM   
cdbeck


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Thanks Napoleon buff! Lets keep this ball rolling! If anyone else has questions, no matter what (or questions with answers, like above) put them in a similar format (bold the question, use A: to answer).

Lets make a defacto FAQ!

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to napoleonbuff)
Post #: 3
RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/20/2007 12:23:42 PM   
ess1

 

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Good idea. Might keep us interested for the next few years...
WIF is an excellent example of keeping all informed.

_____________________________


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RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/22/2007 9:31:54 PM   
malcolm_mccallum

 

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quote:

5. What does this game look like? What does the map look like? How much of the map of the world can I use for my conquests? Are those few available screenshots accurate?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER


It should be noted that EiA is not a traditional game of conquest (in the Risk sense). Your borders will generally be the same from start to finish (+- a few provinces).

Your allies, status, and military strength may fluctuate greatly.

(in reply to ess1)
Post #: 5
RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/22/2007 9:59:32 PM   
cdbeck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: malcolm_mccallum

quote:

5. What does this game look like? What does the map look like? How much of the map of the world can I use for my conquests? Are those few available screenshots accurate?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER


It should be noted that EiA is not a traditional game of conquest (in the Risk sense). Your borders will generally be the same from start to finish (+- a few provinces).

Your allies, status, and military strength may fluctuate greatly.


Malcolm, can you explain a bit more for those of us, like me, that did not play the boardgame? Do you mean that defeating another nation in war basically removes them from opposition to you and puts them on your side (or makes them neutral)?

SoM

_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to malcolm_mccallum)
Post #: 6
RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/22/2007 10:52:38 PM   
malcolm_mccallum

 

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When one side is beating another (or when it is politically expedient), the losing side can offer a conditional surrender. If the victor accepts it he can enforce one peace condition on the loser (the loser can declare one peace term off the table). The two sides are then in enforced peace for a year (12 turns).

The standard strategy is to try to get your enemies to be defeated in cycles so that they never get a chance to all attack you at once but it is easier said than done.

If the winner does not wish to be satisfied with a conditional surrender he can pursue the war and accept only unconditional surrender. Now they must win a very decisive victory and if they achieve it, they can impose three conditions upon the enemy such as taking one province, enforcing an 18 month peace, political marriage, corps on loan, removal of one specific enemy leader, rights of passage and garrison etc. Even unconditional surrender does not ever remove the sovereignity of a nation. They will be back so you must pay attention to trust issues, grudge issues, and long term politics.



(in reply to cdbeck)
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RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/22/2007 11:09:21 PM   
Alex Gilbert

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort


quote:

ORIGINAL: malcolm_mccallum

quote:

5. What does this game look like? What does the map look like? How much of the map of the world can I use for my conquests? Are those few available screenshots accurate?
A:NEEDS AN ANSWER


It should be noted that EiA is not a traditional game of conquest (in the Risk sense). Your borders will generally be the same from start to finish (+- a few provinces).

Your allies, status, and military strength may fluctuate greatly.


Malcolm, can you explain a bit more for those of us, like me, that did not play the boardgame? Do you mean that defeating another nation in war basically removes them from opposition to you and puts them on your side (or makes them neutral)?

SoM



Just to expand a bit on Malcolm's answer, each country is composed of 8-15 or so provinces as well as controlled minor countries and allied minor free states. If a major power surrenders, the victor imposes one of a series of conditions. these include demobilization of part of the army, loans of army corps and fleets (to the victor, from the surrendering party), as well as loss of territory. Others (there are about 8 options as I recall) exist as well.

In any case, if the victor choses the option of taking territory from the vanquished, he is limited to 2 or 3 territories--these include conquered minors, or home provinces. Thus, a single surrender still leaves a respectable nation that has a chance to rebuild its forces.

In addition, there is a rule (optional, I believe, but one my group always played with) that a major power can never lose more than 3 of its original home nation provinces. This is to reflect the idea that the age of Napoleon pre-dated the concept of total war. At his height, Napoleon never actually eliminated any of the existing great powers (although Prussia was reduced to a minimal power for years), similarly, at its defeat, France was left essentially intact, although stripped of all her conquered territory.

It is, in my mind, one of the best features of the game. In a face to face group, it means no-one is eliminated, and it means that even a victor has to be a bit humble because the country you gut today, can come back to be part of the coalition that steps on you tomorrow. The game really becomes much more about the political than simply military conquest.

Alex

(in reply to cdbeck)
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RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/23/2007 2:07:52 AM   
cdbeck


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Well now I am 100% more interested in the game! Thanks for the info guys!

SoM


_____________________________

"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet!"
(Kill them all. God will know his own.)

-- Arnaud-Armaury, the Albigensian Crusade

(in reply to Alex Gilbert)
Post #: 9
RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/23/2007 11:16:12 AM   
Adraeth


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In addition (i am talking about boardgame) the territories a winner of a war may choose are ONLY the ones conquered during the war, thanks to this rule the game (i hope) will not let the AI gain "strange terriories" as in Crown of Glory.

(in reply to cdbeck)
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RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/23/2007 9:57:22 PM   
yammahoper@yahoo.com

 

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To add to Adraeth's post, home nation provinces may not be chosen as a peace condition unless the victor has adjacent territory, via a minor or border.

yamma

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...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

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RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/24/2007 2:53:33 AM   
JavaJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: yammahoper@yahoo.com

To add to Adraeth's post, home nation provinces may not be chosen as a peace condition unless the victor has adjacent territory, via a minor or border.

yamma

To expand a bit, adjacent territory or corps in territory. So if you have corps in a territory you can choose that as a peace condition. Although you need to be careful not to create an island after the war with those corps that gave you the ability to take it as a peace term. Enforced access usually clears that up.



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Post #: 12
RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/24/2007 3:10:25 AM   
JavaJoe


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Diplomacy, the Political Status Display(PSD) and Political Points(PP). First I'll try to  give the Reader's Digest version of how it relates to winning the game. PPs from making an alliance or winning a battle (or others) move you higher on the the PSD, the higher you are the more Victory Points you receive when it comes time to count them. Losing battles breaking alliances and surrendering (among other things) move you down the chart. They are counted quarterly in March, June, September and December. Once counted they go into the "bank" so to speak. Whomever reaches their VP goal (each nation has a different amount and the amount you bid for a nation is added to the goal) wins. Now the British have an ability to take some points away...but hey they're British afterall! All things political are done during the Political Phase. You can arrange to ally with any nation you aren't at war with although making a lot of alliances may not be a good idea since sooner or later they will be broken.

more to come



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Vice President Jersey Association Of Gamers
JerseyGamers.com

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RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/26/2007 9:26:08 AM   
gazfun


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quote:

You can arrange to ally with any nation you aren't at war with although making a lot of alliances may not be a good idea since sooner or later they will be broken.

But our alliance will be for keeps wont it ?


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RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 10/27/2007 3:10:44 AM   
JavaJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gazfun

quote:

You can arrange to ally with any nation you aren't at war with although making a lot of alliances may not be a good idea since sooner or later they will be broken.

But our alliance will be for keeps wont it ?



Until the end of time



_____________________________

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JerseyGamers.com

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Another Question? - 11/22/2007 12:34:10 AM   
SkyElf

 

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What is the price of game with CD and manual? Been waiting along time for a computer version of the game and still waiting on EIF! Played both games many times with my friend in Canada.

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RE: Another Question? - 11/23/2007 1:23:52 AM   
yammahoper@yahoo.com

 

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I have a question about surrender. In the board game, a nation would sue for peace, and the enemy would state either "conditional", which could not be refused, or "unconditional", which could be refused. It was important when fighting as a coalition against another enemy to make sure your allies would not bail with a conditional and leave you fighting alone.

How does this work in the PC version? Is it the same and the enemy responds back with what he will offer? Very curious about this part.

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

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RE: Another Question? - 11/25/2007 12:24:04 PM   
Jabba

 

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What optional rules will be included?

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RE: Another Question? - 11/25/2007 10:38:43 PM   
Murat


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Everyone forgot civil disorder (not sure if it made it into the game). In the event a nation decides to fight to the bitter end and loses all of it's capitals in an economic phase, they fall into civil disorder and are basically annexed in their entirety to the victor. It has happened in board games before but never should since once someone is getting close they should take whatever terms they can get out of an unconditional so that they are left with something. Would really hate to see AI make this error. Other than that, for the most part try to keep human players happy by not taking too much - today's enemy can be tomorrow's ally UNLESS you are France. France will always be hated so salt the fields repeatedly, especially British and Russian ones (Austria and Prussia still need to be healthy enough to beat on for a few years).

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RE: Another Question? - 12/3/2007 10:18:26 PM   
malcolm_mccallum

 

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Sure I could wait two days and read the digitally downloaded manual but....

It is likely only my wild imaginings, but did someone once say that there was an option in computer EiA to resolve battles in miniature? Surely no. That'd be too good.

Is there any thought to allowing this option in an upcoming patch? All it would have to do is check that all involved players desired the option, print out force lists, reinforcements arrival times per phase, and pause the game for up to a week to fight it out. Then the players would adjust their losses based on whatever rules set they were using, input it up and input which side chose to retreat and in which round. Miniature gamers can, generally, be trusted to input fair results so there wouldn't need to be much doublechecking their work.

Oh, and it should also have the option of the players going back and having the battle resolved automatically/normally if they didn't manage to get the fight done in time.

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RE: Another Question? - 12/4/2007 3:56:15 AM   
Naomi

 

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It'd then be another different game (Empires in Miniatures).

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RE: Another Question? - 12/4/2007 4:07:16 AM   
Monadman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: malcolm_mccallum

Sure I could wait two days and read the digitally downloaded manual but....

It is likely only my wild imaginings, but did someone once say that there was an option in computer EiA to resolve battles in miniature? Surely no. That'd be too good.




Marshall or Garry (Gazfun) are the ones to answer all questions concerning the Third Party Combat System (on the spot mate). That feature was almost cut out of the final build and there is absolutely nothing written up for this feature in the manual (except that it exists) so you’ll be totally dependent on either Marshall or Gaz to get you up and running.

Richard



_____________________________


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RE: Another Question? - 12/4/2007 3:05:53 PM   
Marshall Ellis


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malcolm_mccallum:

That is correct. There is an external combat feature that will allow you to take a battle and create a data file (Text file) that will have all force levels, morale, leaders and even a randomly rolled weather condition. You can take this data and resolve the battle in the miniature world then update the text file with the results and load the battle back into EiANW which will then award PPs accordingly and retreat the losers.

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



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RE: Another Question? - 12/4/2007 10:30:19 PM   
La Provence


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

malcolm_mccallum:

That is correct. There is an external combat feature that will allow you to take a battle and create a data file (Text file) that will have all force levels, morale, leaders and even a randomly rolled weather condition. You can take this data and resolve the battle in the miniature world then update the text file with the results and load the battle back into EiANW which will then award PPs accordingly and retreat the losers.


Very interesting

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RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 12/6/2007 8:13:50 PM   
Jimmer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JavaJoe

Diplomacy, the Political Status Display(PSD) and Political Points(PP). First I'll try to  give the Reader's Digest version of how it relates to winning the game. PPs from making an alliance or winning a battle (or others) move you higher on the the PSD, the higher you are the more Victory Points you receive when it comes time to count them. Losing battles breaking alliances and surrendering (among other things) move you down the chart. They are counted quarterly in March, June, September and December. Once counted they go into the "bank" so to speak. Whomever reaches their VP goal (each nation has a different amount and the amount you bid for a nation is added to the goal) wins. Now the British have an ability to take some points away...but hey they're British afterall! All things political are done during the Political Phase. You can arrange to ally with any nation you aren't at war with although making a lot of alliances may not be a good idea since sooner or later they will be broken.

more to come



Please forgive me if you already added this later, but I am reading this chronologically.

NOTE: I'm referring to the boardgame only, as I haven't had time to download the computer game yet.

The other major feature of the PSD is that your political points move at the end of every calculation phase (quarterly). There's a central zone where one's PP total moves by 0 (i.e. it doesn't move), but most nations move until they get to that magical middle zone. The reason is that the "zero zone" is in the middle, give or take. The further one gets from this "middle", the faster one moves back towards it. So, even when one gets smashed into rubble, one is back in the fight only a few quarters later (usually, just in time for the next war :)).

(in reply to JavaJoe)
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RE: Can we clear up the game features? - 12/6/2007 8:34:50 PM   
Mynok


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Since I don't see a detailed answer for #4, I'll take a stab at it. I've only played the boardgame, but it appears that little has changed with computer EiA.

Building is done by strength point or ship. Money and manpower is spent and the factors built are recorded/stored in the month they will arrive on the map. Infantry, militia, cavalry, artillery, landwehr and ships are the types of strength points I recall. There are guerrillas in the boardgame, though I do not know how they are handled in the computer game.

Also available to be built are what are known as containers: corps and fleet counters that actually go on the map and contain strength points. Different nations have different types of corps, with varying strength point maximums and strength point types allowed in them. Infantry, cavalry and artillery corps are the primary types, with fleets being the naval version (the computer game appears to have light and heavy fleets...interesting to find out what the differences are). Turkey has a special kind of corps called a feudal corps, which essentially is a militia corps which can be rebuilt to full strength each spring as long as it is in its home province.

Strength points are brought onto the map in home nation cities or directly into corps if they have depot supply traced back to the home nation. There is a limit to the length of this supply line if I recall correctly. Ships have to be received into fleets going from memory again.

Leaders arrive historically as I recall. There are also some special rules and some victory conditions that affect leaders.

(in reply to Jimmer)
Post #: 26
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