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Blood War 41-46 v1.12 Released

 
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Blood War 41-46 v1.12 Released - 8/27/2007 6:30:39 AM   
Badnews


Posts: 69
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From: China
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Download this MOD:
http://www.bur.st/~akbrown/witp/scenarios/BW41v112.rar

Update v1.1
Feature:
Chinese OOB improving.
No earthquake in 1944.12 so many Japanese aircarft shows in time.
Added IJN BB Settsu (Kawachi class).
Added IJN BB797 (Yamato class).
Remove A6M8
IJN Carrier's DB airgroup can upgrade to A6M7
Added A7M3
Added Ki85/G5N2
Added Ki90/G5N
IJA/IJN LB airgroup can upgrade to 4E
Added Ki64
Added Ki48IIc, DB version
Added Ki102b, DB version
Added Ki106/1106, cheap version of Ki84
Added Ki115/Toka
Added Ki200/J8M
Added Ki201
Added P82
Added Soviet units for Kurile Islands Scenario
Redraw road in all world.

Update v1.0
* This mod based on CHS155 v2.08
* Real Chinese army OOB
* Using Andrew Brown's extended map
* Soviet fleet available in 1945
* No air to air modifications
Feature:
Fixed the CHS v2.08 bugs reported by players.
Daqing and Shengli Oil Resource (1000 Oil) actived at 1941.12.6, undering constrction now.
Fully Japanese ships' building plan, including 15cv, 3BB, 11CA/CL and 79DD.
Japanese airforce has been optimized.
Added new Japanese airgroups and modified many.
Added new IJA units and modified many.
N1K2-J may became carrrier fighter.
All allies aircraft production deploy in maps so it can upgrade.
Final judgement is ready to destroy Imperial Japan (100+ ships).
All allies respawn ships actived insiprite by CHS166.
Added missing Soviet units in Scn 007.
New Chinese army OOB.
Suggestion:
Required experienced player be Japanese side.
Whether Chinese Oil Resource actived or not should be discussed in House Rules.
Whether N1K2-J became carrrier fighter or not should be discussed in House Rules.
Allies ships respawn rule should be discussed in House Rules.
No invasion to Aden, Russia or West Cost.
Thanks to bbs.kuankuan.com, www.biku.net, sonicbbs.eastday.com and tbsgame.net
Thanks to Bao Zi, Ye Hao-lung and all my friends.

< Message edited by Badnews -- 10/7/2007 9:00:27 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 8/28/2007 8:57:07 PM   
Hanti

 

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Joined: 8/28/2007
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Hello.
I like your ideas. I tested ver 1943 of Blood War and found it tasty :)
I like 1941 scenario also.
I like especially the idea of alternate jap's building plan because I'm more interested in realistic 'what if' approches than strictly hard cored OOBs.
Anyway I also stand firmly on Nik A2A ideas. I think your mod would be far more enjoyable if you can incorporate Nikademus aircraft's rules (bigger jap pilot pools in 1941, more durable airframes, etc).

Bugs: it's funny to see those upgrade for ships with dual year (Akagi 6/44 6/44) - you put year in editor beside name so double names are displayed.



(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 2
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 8/29/2007 1:15:04 AM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanti

Hello.
I like your ideas. I tested ver 1943 of Blood War and found it tasty :)
I like 1941 scenario also.
I like especially the idea of alternate jap's building plan because I'm more interested in realistic 'what if' approches than strictly hard cored OOBs.
Anyway I also stand firmly on Nik A2A ideas. I think your mod would be far more enjoyable if you can incorporate Nikademus aircraft's rules (bigger jap pilot pools in 1941, more durable airframes, etc).

Bugs: it's funny to see those upgrade for ships with dual year (Akagi 6/44 6/44) - you put year in editor beside name so double names are displayed.





Hanti, I suspect that is not a bug, but letting the player know which upgrade of the ship he has??

_____________________________




(in reply to Hanti)
Post #: 3
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 8/29/2007 1:45:49 AM   
Terminus


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But those happen automatically, the designer doesn't need to put in the date in the name of the upgraded class. Similar to how entering the world "Class" in the name of a class of submarine results in it being called "(name of submarine) Class Class".

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 4
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 8/29/2007 6:39:44 AM   
Badnews


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Sorry for this bug, I made it just for check the ship class match the time in editing.
I will correct it soon

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 5
Update v1.01 - 8/29/2007 4:08:22 PM   
Badnews


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*Fix the incorrect ship classes name.

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 6
RE: Update v1.01 - 8/30/2007 12:08:05 PM   
Hanti

 

Posts: 62
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From: Poland
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That's nice.

Some questions:
1. Could you explain details about your Japanese ships' building plan?
2. What sources did you use to estimate which ships should be put into production?
3. What kind of optimization has been made to Japanese aircraft production?
4. What ships has been added to Allies (100+ ships)?

Bugs?
1. CV Shinano has 120 capacity but airgroups for 45 (or so) aircrafts. So this capacity isn't used.

I like deploying on map all allies aircraft production.
I ecourage you to adopt Nik ideas (less accuracy guns in airframes, more durable planes etc) as it really make Witp more historical.

Cheers.


PS: I've just thought that you can make a variant of Blood War with 157 CHS (the one with Nik-mod styled A2A).

< Message edited by Hanti -- 8/30/2007 1:24:24 PM >

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 7
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 8/30/2007 4:37:55 PM   
Hanti

 

Posts: 62
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From: Poland
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Submarine "Class Class" names are still there ;)
Maybe Badnews will find some time to correct it also ?

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 8
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 8/30/2007 5:23:50 PM   
Badnews


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanti
Submarine "Class Class" names are still there ;)

Can't find it. Will you point it for me?

(in reply to Hanti)
Post #: 9
RE: Update v1.01 - 8/30/2007 5:36:44 PM   
Badnews


Posts: 69
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanti
Some questions & Bugs?
1. Could you explain details about your Japanese ships' building plan?
2. What sources did you use to estimate which ships should be put into production?
3. What kind of optimization has been made to Japanese aircraft production?
4. What ships has been added to Allies (100+ ships)?
5. CV Shinano has 120 capacity but airgroups for 45 (or so) aircrafts. So this capacity isn't used.
6. I ecourage you to adopt Nik ideas (less accuracy guns in airframes, more durable planes etc) as it really make Witp more historical.PS: I've just thought that you can make a variant of Blood War with 157 CHS (the one with Nik-mod styled A2A).

1. I put the edition record file in the mod files.
2. Japanese ship plan come from real IJN plan in WW2. I have added only small part of them because of lack slot.
3. Remove advance engine. Other little improve just see the edition record file.
4. All ships is real and comes from Europe Area. Some just in Pacific in history but missing by official scn or chs.
5. Designed by chs. You can move LBA in.
6. I'll do it if I have times. Or you can replace and modify the wpa files youeself.
Thanks for support.

(in reply to Hanti)
Post #: 10
RE: Update v1.01 - 9/2/2007 12:21:41 PM   
Hanti

 

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From: Poland
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Submarines:
quote:

Can't find it. Will you point it for me?

Yes. But it's not your omission, those "class class" submarines are there from the beginnig of the stock scenarios.

Thanks for record file in the mod files.

Can you point me to Japanese WW2 ship plans you used?

One note about IJN Carriers. It' not about your mod in particular but it concerns stock and most mods equally.

In game only Unryu class got radars. But IRL Shokaku class got it after Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands.
In October 1942 SHOKAKU was damaged again during the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands and
during subsequent repair her AA suite was increased. She was also fitted with an improved
radar set and underwent changes in her air group. SHOKAKU and ZUIKAKU had now become the
backbone of the Japanese carrier force and all work on these ships was prioritized. In
all likelihood, the same improvements were incorporated into ZUIKAKU. In addition to the
six previously installed bow and aft AA mounts, a further 25mm triple mount was fitted at
each position, centered and in front, bringing the total number of triple mounts to 20.
An additional Type 21 radar set was installed, most likely instead of the searchlight No.
3. In fact, SHOKAKU's entry in 'General Description of IJN Carriers' (Kubo Shuyo Yomokuhyo)
dated 3 February 1943 states that she had three searchlights and two radar sets at
that time. A memo written by a radar operator stationed at Truk in August 1944 confirms
this information.


Of course I can do it myself and add radars to IJN carriers (mostly all six cause if Akagi et consortes would survive Midway it would be equipped with radars also). But I hope you can use those informataion in your mod :)

Source:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/kojinshavolume6.pdf

Question: if I replace and the wpa files of 157 with your files do I have got 157 with your ship changes?

Cheers.

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 11
RE: Update v1.01 - 9/2/2007 5:36:33 PM   
Badnews


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>Can you point me to Japanese WW2 ship plans you used?
I use source from the webpage blow list:
http://mdc.idv.tw/pwm/gen14.htm
http://mdc.idv.tw/pwm/gen15.htm
It was writen by Traditional Chinese Characters. :)

>In game only Unryu class got radars. But IRL Shokaku class got it after Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands.
Thanks for your source. I will fix the errors in Blood War mod soon.

>Question: if I replace and the wpa files of 157 with your files do I have got 157 with your ship changes?
Wpa file includes aircraft data. If you replace the 157 into 041 just need remove "Bulid Rate" of all aircraft.
And some aircraft upgrade rule should be changed also. Just check the record file.
I will make a A2A version soon a later - busy in recently.

Thanks for you support again.

(in reply to Hanti)
Post #: 12
Update v1.02 - 9/3/2007 7:09:19 AM   
Badnews


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From: China
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Classes:
543 Shokaku 7/42燬et Type 21 Radar x1.
544 Shokaku 2/43燬et Type 21 Radar x2.
545 Shokaku 1/44燬et Type 21 Radar x2 and Type 13 Radar x1.
032 Taiho牋Set Type 21 Radar x2.
613 Taiho牋Set Type 21 Radar x2.

Ships:
644 Kairyu燫ename as CV Kurama (CV 5008, history name)
653 5015牋Rename as CV Kairyu



< Message edited by Badnews -- 9/3/2007 7:10:32 AM >

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 13
RE: Update v1.02 - 9/3/2007 7:59:52 PM   
Hanti

 

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Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
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Good to hear from you.

Another issue (not a bug, but definitly an issue): Japanese pilot pools.
Stock scenario and most mods suggest that there should be something like 10:1 ratio between USA and JAP.
Details:
200 USA pilots + 60 USN pilots + 60 USM pilots (320 total)
20 IJA pilots + 10 IJN pilots (30 total)
But it's for sure not true. I don't know how many pilots USA have trained before 1941, but I have some values for war USN years:
1941 3112
1942 10869
1943 20842
1944 21067
1945 8880
Looks like we can estimate that it could be something like 20K yearly (1666 a month).

Then look at IJN.
My source: http://www.historynet.com/wars_conflicts/world_war_2/3445216.html?page=4&c=y
By the end of 1943, the army and navy had lost about 10,000 pilots. As American Lt. Gen. George C. Kenney reported to Washington, "Japan's originally highly trained crews were superb but they are dead." When matched to pilot production of 5,400 army and 5,000 navy in the same period, and when one considers the expansion in units, missions, tempo and geographical separation, it is clear that Japan's pilot strength had not increased at all. Worse, the vast majority of prewar and even 1942-43 veterans were dead or wounded, and their replacements had none of the veterans' experience.

It is written that during 24 months of war (Dec 41-Dec 43) Japan trained 10K pilots divided equally betweem IJA and IJN.
This means that IJN trained 5K in two years, so it was 2,5K pilots a year. We can consider also that numbers of trained pilots increased in 1944 (not decreased as some say).

I don't have exact numbers how it was increased but I have some clues:
1) In april 43 IJN had 2980 airplanes in line.
2) In april 44 IJN had 6600 airplanes in line.
3) That means tne number of active pilots in IJN had increased about 3 K in 1944.
4) Consider tha IJN lost also more than 6000 airplanes in that period.
My source: United States Strategic Bombing Survey: Interrogations, Washington 1946

Assumption: 6000 lost airframes with (at leat) 6000 dead pilots plus 3000 new pilots plus some 1000 wounded and repalced pilots means something like 10.0000 trained pilots for IJN in one year.
That is at least more than triple as many trained pilots in period 43/44 than 42/43.

The conclusion:
30 pilots monthly was the number Japan trained before the war.
2500 yeraly trained IJN pilots in 42/43 means 208 monthly.
10.000 yearly trained IJN pilots in 43/44 means 833 monthly.

When we compare it with USN we got something like 1:2 ratio in 1944
(1666: 833).

I know that IJN pilot trainig programs were shorter in 44 than in 42 and that quality of those pilots was lower.
But those numbers can not be set as 1:10 (200 USA to 20 IJA) or 1:6 (60 USN to 10 IJN).

I suggest something like 1:4 as it would much better reflect rality.
Numbers could go as:
200 USA pilots + 60 USN pilots + 60 USM pilots (320 total)
50 IJA pilots + 30 IJN pilots (80 total)

We can't set different numbers for diferent years, nor we can't set different quality for different yerars. So my idea is to set it as 1:4 and give JAP more quality anyway.

Any comments?


(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 14
RE: Update v1.02 - 9/4/2007 3:58:17 AM   
Hanti

 

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About JAP fighters in scenario.

In scenario you have the following:
1)
Ki-84a available from 44-05 with 408 speed and 37/32 stats.
Ki-84c available from 44-11 with 388 speed and 36/32 stats.
2)
Ki-100 available from 45-02 with 372 speed and 36/32 stats.
3)
NIK2-J available from 44-06 with 390 speed and 36/33 stats.
A6M7/M8/Reppu available with stats similar or worse than NIK2-J.

1)

Conclusion:
In game Ki-84c should NOT be replacement (auto upgrade) for Ki-84a because of its different role (FB instead F), lower speed and stats. Variant 'a' was anti-fighter and variant 'c' was anti-bomber.

About Ki-84:
"Hayate codenamed 'Frank' by the Allies is generally regarded as the best Japanese fighter of the World War II period. Though Hayate was primarily used as a fighter it served in bomber capacity as well. Due to it's advanced direct-injection engine Hayate was able to outmaneuver and outclimb it's American counterparts, the P-47N Thunderbolt and the P-51H Mustang.
Ki-84 was not without problems. Due to the war time shortages and increasingly poorer quality control meant that Japanese pilots never knew how their plane was going to behave. For instance poor treatment of the high-strength steel meant that the landing gear could simply snap upon landing."

Source: http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1041681&lastnode_id=124

Some interesting stuff:
"From the data tables the Ki-84 could outpace the F6F but would lag behind the other Allied fighters. However, 390 mph made the Ki-84 the fastest Japanese fighter of the war. Apparently a captured example run on high octane petrol, not available to the Japanese, was able to outpace both the Mustang and Thunderbolt."

In my opinion this was the best experiment. With proper support Ki-84 prove itself to be superior to American fighters. When some others disregard it as 'superior' most agree it was 'equal' to all Allies newest fighters.

"This has been determined from unladen weight, but puts the Ki-84 as the design with the best amount of power for its weight available. This would mean it could it could theoretically out accelerate the allied fighters from a low to medium starting speed."

"No Japanese fighter aircraft had a better all-round performance than the Ki-84. As far as protection goes, the Ki-84 had seat back and head armour of 12 mm steel, and self-sealing fuel tanks. The self-sealing tanks were not considered as efficient as those fitted to American aircraft at the time.
The Ki-84 was not clearly superior to any of the Allied fighter aircraft opposing it. In perfect running order it was perhaps the equal of any allied fighter at 20,000 feet or below. A good pilot would be able to take advantage of its excellent turning, climbing and acceleration characteristics to at least give an allied opponent a hard fight."

Source: http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/ki84performanceaj_1.htm


2)
In game Ki-100 comes nearly year later than Ki-84a, but its inferior so its worthless - no one would change production line for that plane. I suggest upgrading its performance in some or other way drastically.

They say:
"Almost immediately, engineers and pilots alike realized that they had stumbled into greatness. The Ki-100 was slightly slower than the Hien due to wind resistance from the radial engine, but was lighter and more maneuverable. More important it could be counted on due to the reliablity of the engine. It soon acquired a reputation as the best, most reliable, and easiest to fly of any IJAAF fighter. Even the newest pilots could fly the Goshiki-sen like a pro, and in the hands of a pro it could be deadly. It was supposed to be superior to the F6F Hellcat and pilots soon regarded the Grumman fighter as an easy kill. It also proved capable if intercepting B-29's. It even proved itself the equal of the P-51 Mustang, contests between the two aircraft being determined by pilot skill rather than the merits of the aircraft. It was in a Ki-100 that Major Hinoki Yohei, the Douglas Bader of Japan, an ace who kept on flying despite severe injuries, scored his 12th and final kill of the war, downing a Mustang flown by Capt. William Benbow. Not bad for an improvisation."

"On 25 July 1945, 18 Ki-100 fighters from 244 Sentai encountered ten F6F Hellcats of the Belleau Wood Air Wing in a monumental air battle where the Ki-100 pilots claimed 12 victories with only two losses. Claims and counterclaims regarding the "true" results center around this action but it was an indication that the Ki-100 was a deadly adversary. The real losses were two Hellcats and two Ki-100s; one Ki-100 and one F6F were lost in a collision between Major Tsutae Obara and Ensign Edwin White in which both pilots were killed."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ki-100


I suggest making Ki-84 and Ki-100 more manuevrable but less durable than allied fighters.
Pointing out that Ki-100 wasn't better than Ki-84 I think the best way to show its performance would be introducing Nik's concept of "centerline" armament. I would eqiup it with the same cannons/MG but with +50% better accuracy. It will simulate its user-friendly abilities.

I have made test version of your 1.02 mod with "centerline" for devices 153, 154 etc to use with Claude, Nate, Rufe, A6M2/M3/M3a/M5, N1K Kyofu, Hayabusa, Ki-45 KAIa, Ki-61-Ib and Ki-100 (all those aircrafts need this from different reasons).
It changes air combats respectively: those fighters still can die quickly, but have greater chance to disable its opponents. Ki-43 is great example. It was very succesfull fighter, yet in game its armaments make it rather poor choice.
I'm not gonna make another mod with Nik's ideas, instead I prefer 'updating' this one with some Nik's basics :)

The other tested by myself issues are:
- Ki-84 top speed +30 (faster IRL than P-51D and P-47D, 438:437:428)
- upgrade path A5m4->A6M2->A6M3 4/42->A6M3a 9/42->A6M5 8/43->A6M7 4/44->N1K2-J Shiden-Kai 6/44->A7M2 Reppu 5/45
- A6M8 was left out as it is inferior to Shiden-Kai, was it IRL?
- Claude, Nate, Hayabusa, Zero MVR increase 38/25, 38/24, 36/26 for Ib and 37/28 for IIa, 35/25
- All A6 +2 MVR
- Ki-44 +2 DUR
- NIK2-J from 36/33 to 38/33.
- Sally upgrade to Ki-67 (as in stock scenarios) instead to Ki-49 (as in CHS)
- engine factories should be also 'optimized' (Kanazawa still produce unused engines)


3)

I don't see a reason to build later A6/A7/A8 aircraft series. Am I wrong?
Some updating stats or some careful inspection would be sensible.




< Message edited by Hanti -- 9/4/2007 11:53:15 PM >

(in reply to Hanti)
Post #: 15
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 9/5/2007 12:03:00 AM   
Hanti

 

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Some "Class Class" names:

287
289
290
291
292
293
294
296
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
413
450
and their upgrades.

See ya.




(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 16
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 9/5/2007 4:18:24 AM   
Badnews


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From: China
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Thanks. I find some by search "class".
213
215
1352
1393
1415-1416
1434-1440
1450-1452
Fixing it now. I'll release v1.03 soon.

(in reply to Hanti)
Post #: 17
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 9/5/2007 5:27:04 AM   
Badnews


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From: China
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> Ki-84 top speed +30 (faster IRL than P-51D and P-47D, 438:437:428)
On my data, Ki-84 top speed was 624km/h@6100m (388miles/h)
P-51D top speed is 703.13km/h@7620m (437miles/h)
P-47D top spped is 690km/h (429miles/h)
They are faster than Ki-84

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 18
Update v1.03 - 9/5/2007 6:46:02 AM   
Badnews


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From: China
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Update v1.03
*Set Japanese pilots number as:
50 IJA pilots + 30 IJN pilots (80 total)

Correct some ship classes name include "class class".
287, 289-294, 296, 332-339, 413, 450
213, 215, 1352, 1393, 1415-1416, 1434-1440, 1450-1452

Aircraft:
064 Ki21 change upgrade to 067 Ki67, as in stock scenarios.

**************************************
Doing some new improvement now, may cost some days.

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 19
RE: Blood War 41-46 Released - 9/5/2007 9:15:10 PM   
Hanti

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Badnews

> Ki-84 top speed +30 (faster IRL than P-51D and P-47D, 438:437:428)
On my data, Ki-84 top speed was 624km/h@6100m (388miles/h)
P-51D top speed is 703.13km/h@7620m (437miles/h)
P-47D top spped is 690km/h (429miles/h)
They are faster than Ki-84


Well, not exactly.
Theoretically they were faster. Practically not. I can't point out sources - they are in polish (translated from japanish). American sources say their fighters were faster, Japanise surces don't confirm that.
http://kagero.pl/product_info.php?products_id=290?language=en

We can't discover the truth, but some thoughts can be made:
"Hayate used a direct-injection version of the engine, using water-methanol injection to aid the supercharger in giving the Ki-84 a rated 2000 hp at takeoff. This combination梚n theory, at least梘ave it a climb rate and top speed roughly competitive with the top Allied fighters of the late Pacific theater, the P-51 Mustang and P-47 Thunderbolt (with top speeds of 433 and 426 mph, respectively). The Hayate's initial testing at Tachikawa in early summer 1943 saw test pilot Lt. Funabashi reach a maximum level speed of 634 km/h (394 mph) in the second prototype, but after the war a captured example was tested by the U.S. Army using high-octane fuel and achieved a speed of 690 km/h (430 mph)."

So, if Ki-84 was as fast as 430 using US fuel, it definitly has the potential to be that fast. In game 'speed' is essential in A2A combat. Slower airplanes are in unfavorable position. Ki-84 was as good as P-47 or P-51 (or even better). To reflect this IN GAME you have to set its speed with the same range.
Just because of this I proposed +30 speed for Ki-84 (its potential speed with better fuel). Otherwise this plane will not be even opponent for those fighters.

You can consider also these opinions:
"After the War flight tests were conducted between Allied and japanese aircraft, and it turned out that the Ki-84 could outperform the best Allied fighters. The North American P-51D Mustang and the Republic P-47D Thunderbolt were both left behind, the first with 3 Mph (5 km/h), the second with 22 Mph (35 km/h). The speed reached by the Ki-84 was 427 Mph (687 km/h) at an altitude of 20,000 ft (6.096 m)."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/nakaki84.html

"The FRANK later appeared in the battle for Okinawa, serving with the 101st, 102nd, and 103rd Hiko Sentais. Two new Sentais, the 111th and the 200th were activated with Hayates. The Hayates were used for long-range penetration missions, fighter sweeps, strafing, interception and dive-bombing missions with considerable success. The Ki-84 proved faster than the P-51D Mustang and the P-47D Thunderbolt at all but the highest altitudes. At medium altitudes, the FRANK was so fast that it was essentially immune from interception. The climb rate was exceptionally good, 16,400 feet being attained in 5 minutes 54 seconds, which was superior to that of any opposing Allied fighters."
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/Elevon/baugher_other/ki-84.html

"Forget it - it's a Frank." It is said that this comment was made frequently by USAAF personnel watching radar screens on Okinawa in the closing weeks of the Pacific War. It was customary to watch for a contact to appear and then to scramble P-51 Mustangs to intercept the enemy aircraft. But when the blip was moving so fast that it was inferred to be one of the advanced new Japanese Hayate fighters it would be assumed that the P-51s would stand no chance of catching the intruder."
http://www.angelfire.com/fm/compass/Hayate.htm


< Message edited by Hanti -- 9/5/2007 10:48:24 PM >

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 20
Ki-84 - 9/8/2007 5:57:14 PM   
Hanti

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
OK. I found it out.
"Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate" monography published in 2001 (Poland, Lotnictwo Wojskowe 1/2001).

Standard speed of first production series was 624 km/h using Ha-45-11 engine. That version is considered as "standard' or "representative" and its performance is published in most sources.

At the end of 1944 new versions with different engines were introduced.

Ha-45-11 and its improved version Ha-45-12 had 1800/1825 hp with 624 km/h.
Ha-45-21 had 1970 hp and later 2050/2040 hp and 680 km/h.

Engine Ha-45-21 one was widely used with version Ki-84 I ko.

In 1945 there were also better engines: Ha-45-23 and Ha-45-25, but I don't have info whether it were used.

For comparison:
Ki-84 I had 680 km/h (5'54'' min for height of 5000m)
P-47-D-25 had 689 km/h (6'2'' min for height of 4600m)
P-51-D-5 had 703 km/h (11'5'' min for height of 6100m)
F6F-5 had 611 km/h (6'0'' min for height of 4570)
F4U-4 had 718 km/h (6'8'' min for height of 6100)

During the war:
85 Sentai, Nanking, kpt. Yukiyoshi Wakamatsu, 04.10.1944 two P-51B shot down (of 76 Fgt).
Untill his death he shot down 18 allied planes of which 11 were Mustangs.





< Message edited by Hanti -- 9/8/2007 9:30:40 PM >

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 21
Update v1.1 - 10/2/2007 3:31:41 AM   
Badnews


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: China
Status: offline
Feature:
Chinese OOB improving.
No earthquake in 1944.12 so many Japanese aircarft shows in time.
Added IJN BB Settsu (Kawachi class).
Added IJN BB797 (Yamato class).
Remove A6M8
IJN Carrier's DB airgroup can upgrade to A6M7
Added A7M3
Added Ki85/G5N2
Added Ki90/G5N
IJA/IJN LB airgroup can upgrade to 4E
Added Ki64
Added Ki48IIc, DB version
Added Ki102b, DB version
Added Ki106/1106, cheap version of Ki84
Added Ki115/Toka
Added Ki200/J8M
Added Ki201
Added P82
Added Soviet units for Kurile Islands Scenario
Redraw road in all world.

< Message edited by Badnews -- 10/2/2007 3:49:08 AM >

(in reply to Hanti)
Post #: 22
RE: Update v1.1 - 10/2/2007 4:11:50 AM   
Badnews


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: China
Status: offline
A7M2, improve version of A7M2, faster and higher than A7M2.
Ki85/G5N2, improve version of Ki68/G5N, 16 Hexes long distance 4E bomber.
Ki90/G8N, Japnease B-29.
Ki64, best IJA fighter in early 1944, but more expensive.
Ki106/116, cheap version of Ki84, only cost 18HI.
Ki115, Kamikaze aircraft only cost 18HI.
Ki200/J8M, best defender.
Ki201, best IJA figther.
P82, best escorter of B-29.

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 23
Installation - 10/2/2007 4:44:58 AM   
Badnews


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: China
Status: offline
Installation:
1.Installtion Andrew Brown's Extended Map v6.2http://www.akdreemer.com/Andrews_WitP_Map_Extended_v6.2.zip
2.Installtion CHS Base package v2d
http://www.akdreemer.com/CHS_Base_2d.zip
3.Installtion CHS Base package update v2dhttp://www.bur.st/~akbrown/witp/files/CHS_Art_Update_2d.zip
4.Installtion Blood War 41 v1.1http://www.biku.net/download/bw41v11.rar

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 24
Update v1.11 and v1.12 - 10/7/2007 4:03:47 AM   
Badnews


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: China
Status: offline
Update v1.12
113-132 IJN DD reset classes to fix "torpedo problems".
171-199 IJN DD reset classes to fix "torpedo problems".
689-704 IJN DD reset classes to fix "torpedo problems".

Update v1.11
Aircraft:
006 A7M2服役时间由44.10变更为44.11.
018 Replace A6M7 by A6M5c, actived in 43.9, data from official scn015.
Ground unit:
901~913 Added #281 81mm Mortar X108 for each TOE.
915~917 Added #281 81mm Mortar X54 for each TOE.
919 Added #281 81mm Mortar X27 for TOE.

_____________________________

The war is not about who is right. It is about who is left.

(in reply to Badnews)
Post #: 25
RE: Update v1.02 - 10/7/2007 5:17:06 AM   
joliverlay

 

Posts: 548
Joined: 1/28/2003
Status: offline
I do not have the book in front of me, but my recollection from one of Dunnigan's Books about the Pacific War is that at the time of Pearl Harbor the Japanese were taking up to four years to train pilots (if they were not collage grads). Because the pipeline of trained pilots had a very log lag, adjustments in the training program did not result in new pilots for a very long time. Many of the pilots cited in the number you quote (by counting airframes) may have been hardly trained at all. I've seen reports that the KB losses from PH to just before Coral Sea (which were minimal) exceeded the number of trained pilots available for CV opertations produced during the same timeframe! Is this not why the least damaged CV from the Japanese victory at coral sea did not participate at Midway. No pilots? I suspect the 10:1 ratio of trained pilots for USA/Japan is probably correct because of the mass production training used by the US (which was started before the war). If anything I suspect the Japenese pilot replacement pool in the stock game, at least for the CV trained replacements, is generous. After all, the training program was not changed much until after PH, and if the training program was reduced to 18 months you would see no change in pilot output for the duriation of the training program. To much lag.

(in reply to Hanti)
Post #: 26
RE: Update v1.02 - 10/27/2007 2:56:21 PM   
Hanti

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joliverlay

I do not have the book in front of me, but (...) I've seen reports that the KB losses from PH to just before Coral Sea (which were minimal) exceeded the number of trained pilots available for CV opertations produced during the same timeframe! (...) I suspect the 10:1 ratio of trained pilots for USA/Japan is probably correct because of the mass production training used by the US (which was started before the war). (...)


My conclusion from many sources are that 30 pilots monthly was the number JAP trained before the war. And it's that number you and your source are pointing out.
But JAP training programs WERE INCREASED during war. It's completly FALSE opinion that JAP didn't do it. It's only a matter of SCALE. US trained MANY MORE pilots.
But in 43-45 JAP trained many more IN COMPARISON to 41-43.
That was something like 2500 yearly trained IJN pilots in 42/43 (means 208 monthly).
Another 10.000 yearly trained IJN pilots in 43/44 means 833 monthly.
Of course that JAP pilots that were trained in later stage of war was porer trained, BUT NUMBERS were INCREASED.

Airplanes IN LINE means that those planes HAD pilots!

< Message edited by Hanti -- 10/27/2007 3:01:35 PM >

(in reply to joliverlay)
Post #: 27
RE: Update v1.02 - 10/27/2007 4:28:37 PM   
DaveB


Posts: 151
Joined: 8/4/2003
From: Forres Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

Assumption: 6000 lost airframes with (at leat) 6000 dead pilots
- are you sure? Wouldn't those 6000 lost aircraft include those destroyed on the ground, when pilots wouldn't have been sitting in them?

(in reply to Hanti)
Post #: 28
RE: Update v1.02 - 3/10/2008 4:24:36 PM   
Hanti

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
It's an old topic, but the mod is still in (a new version came out not long ago), so I will answer it.

6K destroyed airframes means 6K of all types. Some were shot down, some were destroyed on the fields. But all of them was operational airplanes, all had pilots.
Some had one pilot (fighters), some two pilots (bombers).

That means, the game and most people here have wrong perspective about NUMBERS of Jap pilots.
Those numbers were gradually increased during 42-44 period. Japs were aware of the problem with pilots training programs after Coral Sea and Midway. They were accepted new CV building plan and for the same reason they were accepted new trainig programs. And during 42-44 period they increased the NUMBERS of graduating pilots triple to the pre-war period.

The problem is not the NUMBERS, but quality. All those pilots were hastily trained and year after year their quality were lower and lower. That is the main reason Japs were loosing air war.
Low QUALITY, not low numbers.

(in reply to DaveB)
Post #: 29
RE: Update v1.02 - 3/10/2008 7:41:31 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6057
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveB

quote:

Assumption: 6000 lost airframes with (at leat) 6000 dead pilots
- are you sure? Wouldn't those 6000 lost aircraft include those destroyed on the ground, when pilots wouldn't have been sitting in them?


Operational losses?
Shot up on the ground?
Cannibalised for repair parts?

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to DaveB)
Post #: 30
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