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thoughts on playing against human opponent.

 
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thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/5/2007 9:54:32 PM   
Adm. Ahab

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 8/5/2007
Status: offline 		After playing 1 game as a CP and playing 2 games as entente against human opponent, I think that I can post few observations what I and my opponent have made. First game is absolutely great and we have had lots of fun. Now that I have given the positive feedback I can tell you our observations. All our games were over when the game reached the latter half of the 1915 because Germany had lost most of its western armies to endless battering of France and Britain. I noticed that Germany can’t afford to replace even fraction of the losses made by determined attacks, when France and GB can afford to attack turn after turn.

This battering was made possible by the big production difference between CP and Entente. I think that Germany in particular has too little raw materials at the beginning of the game and this leads to major problems to the Germanys production when the game reaches 1915 Even if you transfer all your allies spare raw material and industrial production you still end up losing in the west. When France and Britain’s combined industrial output was over 25 points and Germany had only 13 points this causes problems for Germany, Because France and Britain can easily produce more than enough arms and barrages to replace their losses whereas Germany has two fronts to disperse reinforcements.

This leads to the third observation I and my opponent made and this is the use of artillery. We found that artillery is too efficient in destroying forces. I found out that most lethal tactic against Germany was to first attack in first impulse with forces and artillery. This usually destroyed the defenders entrenchment. Losses were usually about even and in latter impulses you could use artillery to destroy enemy and watch his grim choices: Retreat further to the east or lose more forces in latter impulses to the artillery.

My opponent told me that if he had 3 corps defending which is usually a must in west front his losses were usually over 10 points when attacked with 3 artillery without entrenchment. and if you do this for example three impulses your enemy’s defences would be non existent after the next strategic phase because he cant replace that kind of losses whereas even badly failed attack and there were those where my losses were over 50 and his were just 15 points our losses evened out in the latter stages because Germany couldn’t produce enough artillery barrages and replacements to fix his forces.
I know that entrenchment decreases these losses but you can only produce 1 entrenchment level per strategic phase and this level is usually lost in the first attack.

In all of our games Germany didn’t have a chance when the game reached summer of 1915, because the Entente was outproducing CP by too big margin. And this leads to the rabid fall of the German western army.

I didn’t mention Russia because I think that you don’t need Russia to defeat CP. In all of my games I just defended in Russia by deploying most of my army to the north and near Warsaw behind forts like grodno and Riga and Brest-whatever . I didn’t defend Ukraine with lot of forces because there aren’t much important points to defend except food and Lublin .

Well thanks for reading this lengthy post. I hope you didnt when reading this.

Ps. I love the game that’s why I’m posting this.
Post #: 1
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/5/2007 10:30:55 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 3811
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		Out of curiosity - soon as the Ottoman Empire was involved, were you sending all their supplies over to Germany?

And did the CPs have transports in the Baltic ever?


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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/5/2007 11:11:48 PM   
Adm. Ahab

 

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Joined: 8/5/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Out of curiosity - soon as the Ottoman Empire was involved, were you sending all their supplies over to Germany?

And did the CPs have transports in the Baltic ever?


Well When playing CP I did put transports in baltic and sended all the raw materials from Ottoman empire to the Germany but when I was able to do so western front was already crumbling from the pressure because I wasn't able to replace the losses my forces were suffering from the attacks and artillery barrages.

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Post #: 3
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/5/2007 11:29:06 PM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 1555
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		A lot of Britain's production should be going into naval.  If they don't do that you should be able to hurt their production with uboats.  If they're not even spending enough on naval to keep their fleet on patrol you should send out your fleet and perhaps "win the war in an afternoon".

Also, you need to do some damage to France.  Those resources near the border should be overrun.  Not only will it help you a little bit, it will hurt French production.

And you need to take the Serbian war seriously so that those Ottoman resources can flow into Germany.

The Central Powers are certainly the more challenging side to play but they do have some advantages.  But those advantages have to be exploited or eventually the weight of the Entente will crush you.


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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 12:27:12 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3067
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		The British and French don't even come close to replacing their losses against a determined German offensive in 1914 - wanna game??!! :)

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 12:34:17 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3981
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		The gauntlet is down!

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 12:39:19 AM   
Adm. Ahab

 

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Joined: 8/5/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

A lot of Britain's production should be going into naval. If they don't do that you should be able to hurt their production with uboats. If they're not even spending enough on naval to keep their fleet on patrol you should send out your fleet and perhaps "win the war in an afternoon".

Also, you need to do some damage to France. Those resources near the border should be overrun. Not only will it help you a little bit, it will hurt French production.

And you need to take the Serbian war seriously so that those Ottoman resources can flow into Germany.

The Central Powers are certainly the more challenging side to play but they do have some advantages. But those advantages have to be exploited or eventually the weight of the Entente will crush you.



Well when I was playing as Entente I was attacked by 5 CP subs. My opponent told me he used unrestricted sub warfare. He was able to sink 2 transports per strategic phase and he was able to sunk 6 transports before his subs retired. This was not enough, because in early 1915 Britain is able to stockpile over 30 raw materials and over 20 food if it is played well.

Maybe this sub warfare would have caused some restrictions in Britains industry by late 16 but at that time I was attacking his forces in the west in every hex and crushing them with the help of those British corps that arrive in the 1915 and the artillery that I had build in England. I think that giving at start 6 HQ filled with action points to France seriously helps Entente to strike back in 1915 because at that time Germanys action points in HQs are usually used up and therefore they must pay 3 points to produce 1 and Entente can use its HQs in France in cooperation so I was never in need to build more action points to my HQs whereas CP had to spend their meagre points to build 1 point or more.

My opponent took those resources but the effect of losing those isn’t big enough to cause much trouble for the entente, because France gets from trade enough resources even if it loses Verdun and those 2 other resource hexes.


Ps. thanks for answering my post.

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 12:40:00 AM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Hello Ahab,

It would seem to me, that your main problem would come from Germany not succeeding in hurting France sufficiently in the opening stages of the war.

Here are some thoughts on that campaign from my experience so far.

As Frank states taking the 3 resource hexes near Verdun (actually 4 resource hexes) helps CP a lot, while hurting Entente production.

If Germany chooses a France first it is imperative to hurt French manpower from the beginning, and where possible to destroy some of the 18 at start infantry corps, which constitutes 18 out of a total of 20 category A corps for France. France does mobilize 10 corps on turn two, but still does not get the necessary rail movement to move them into position.

Germany can concentrate approximately 900 strength points against 400 for France. Force the French to maneuver and attack them in the open with your superior forces.

With the addition of AH artillery set up in the alps at mobilization and using strategic movement to get to the front in the first impulse, CP will have an astonishing 9 artillery pieces to bleed France with.

Furthermore, go for poison gas to help blasting the lines. Remember to keep 1 research point on turn 1, because you won't get further research points until turn 3.

Note that France only get 36 arms on each of the first two turns and starts with 80 manpower, receiving 40 manpower a turn. So they are vulnerable to attrition.

Hurt French manpower from the beginning and even when switching to defensive keep hurting French manpower.

In my experience, France will have passed exhaustion level 1 in the summer of 15, and what survives of category A infantry corps until then will now be category B corps and the remainder category C corps.

A final note for consideration. It is not necessarily in CP's interest to attack France through Belgium. Not only do you have to fight the 3 Belgian corps but also instantly the 3 British corps. Some artillery must also be allocated, together with ample reserves, and you may not even take Liege on the first impulse.

BEF can enter France on turn two whether Belgium is neutral or not, but France still lacks the necessary rail movement, so they will have to walk to the front

Now, i don't suggest to never attack through Belgium just to be flexible and unpredictable

One last thing though, sooner or later Belgium will join the Entente.

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Post #: 8
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 1:08:33 AM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		Interesting.  I think it is imperative that Germany storm through St Miheal and Vedun.  I totally agree with deploying the siege arty in the  alps - the other AH arty is barrage 2 i believe so i don't use it to barrage.  I prefer to not attack belgium right off the start and instead just push the top 3 hexes-luxemburg-verdun-st mihael with the 6 starting arty and trying to rotate the inf and assault the open hexes.  I am not sure why the CP is burning through all its activaions early-it doesn't take an activation to use art and i rarely use more than 4 or 5 in august '14.  i spend the entire initial 17 production on barrages, trench(1) , and refits.  you cannot let your korps get eliminated-that is critical.  hopefully you can batter some of those Fr korp out on August '14

we certainly need to start a CP strategy thread.....  

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 2:44:14 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3981
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From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

i spend the entire initial 17 production on barrages, trench(1) , and refits.  you cannot let your korps get eliminated-that is critical. 
we certainly need to start a CP strategy thread.....  



Only 17 industrial points? You can do better than that.

Watch what you say; TE fanboy's about.

I think that after a game or two, most everyone will treat those HQ point's like gold.

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Post #: 10
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 3:18:58 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3067
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		AFAIK if no-one declares war on it then Belgium remains neutral for the whole game.

IMO the CP needs a few naval points - I usually spend 2 resources on them right up, and buy 2 subs - the fleet is used solely to beat up the Russians in the Baltic.  Shipping goes 2 to the Baltic & 2 to the Atlantic as long as there's 4 ships....but once the TE starts sinking them in the Atlantic it's all in the Baltic only.

no points on trenches to start - they'er unnecessary as you'll be attackign and advancing!

You need lots of artillery - you can keep worn down units out of the line for a while if you have to, but if you run out of shells then you're in trouble, so I always spend at least 6 points on it.

1 for research, 1 for diplomacy every turn regardless.

the rest on replacements - you don't ned HQ points for ages if you're careful with the vast number you start with!

diplomacy - Work on Bulgaria to start - the sooner they are in the better as you can transfer resources to and from turkey.  then slow down italy, and, after they've come in anyway, slow down America.

Research - forget gas - it's a one shot weapon IMO, that takes a long time to get and is of limited usefulness by the time you'll get it.  I go for air first - get to level 2 so you can shoot down the other guy's a/c!!  Secondly artillery - you get to build bigger artillery units.....sweeeetttttt   Lastly Trenches - improved trenches are pretty useful too, but only if you're defending.  AS the CP you should be attacking or relying on fortified cities early on, so they aren't a necesity.


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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 3:57:30 AM   
EUBanana


Posts: 3811
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		Must disagree on gas - gas rocks!   And it does not take a long time to research.  As Germany if you pop one of your initial research slots on gas you'll be using it before the Christmas of 1914.  And it may be one shot, but for those four shots its a real war winner. 

When the Frogs are defending Verdun or Epinal or whatever to the hilt in 1914 and thinking their safe enough - then you break out the chlorine and go Over the Top, and smack, whatever was defending there has been almost totally destroyed.

It may be four shots but it seems to have a major impact, its effectively four battles which you can give yourself a massive advantage.  Four battles is quite a lot if you save your gas attacks for when you really need them.  Invaluable in the opening game for reducing French strongpoints and key hexes.


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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 4:07:39 AM   
EUBanana


Posts: 3811
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		...and you can conquer Paris by mid 1915 as Germany with a France first strategy.  There isnt anything Britain can do about this short of giving France all their industrial points (I really do think that if anything is broken in this game its the ability to pass around resources to your allies without any drawbacks whatsoever) for French armaments, as the BEF is still tiny at this point. 

Using submarines on the British is not merely a matter of sinking transports and hitting his materials production either, it means that the British will be forced to spend points on naval assets to maintain patrols, and if you are being a serious pain in the ass, maybe even some R&D points on ASW warfare.  So the impact of submarines is out of proportion to merely the transports destroyed.  Ditto with the High Seas Fleet, its mere presence means that Britain has to set up sizable patrols for fear the German Navy one day decides to come out and play, and that costs even more naval assets, which means less British units on the front, all for minimal costs to German industry (well, no cost at all, as your starting naval assets as Germany are plenty to buy some extra submarines and keep them running until the end of 1915).

I do think that the Central Powers are definitely the underdog in this game but I don't think its totally without hope.  Mind you, I've only been playing the AI, and I know an  intelligent France would be considerably harder to beat.  The AI seems to throw away forces by a Foch-like tendency to J'Attaque all the time and get minced.  As an Entente player of France I dont think I'd activate a French HQ until the end of 1915.


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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 4:12:42 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3067
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I usually conquer France without needing gas ...in my latest game I'm in the hex to teh south of Paris at the end of the 2nd turn.....and then I have an advantage in aircraft and artillery for the rest of the war - siege artillery destroys Verdun in the first turn anyway :)

Edit: Remember that you only get each gas effect for 1 turn - so you'll get 4 attacks in a summer turn, but only 1-2 when the weather is bad.

< Message edited by SMK-at-work -- 8/6/2007 5:18:08 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 9:27:52 AM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Really - against an human opponent ? It is definitely not even a sure thing for me against a human opponent even with gas.

As EUBanana points out, you may get gas on turn two and turn three at the latest. The Entente on the other hand needs minimum 2 research points to research gas. They only start with 1 research point, and must wait until turn two to buy another. Taking two turns to build, it can be deployed in Jan/Feb 1915 and (maybe) nullifying your gas advantage after that turn. Besides, i usually run low (empty ) on barrages on turn two, so some gas cannisters will come in handy.

The british certainly must send PP to France to give them the ability to build arms, entrenchments and barrages.

Germany can, in most games properly, take out France in 1915 but the question is to what cost, and what Russia will do in the meantime.

I don't have so much experience with that stage of the game so far, but imagining digging out a manpower rich Russia stacking 4 unit high in difficult terrain at entrenchment 2 or 3 with a bleeding German Army is not going to be easy Anyone having experience with handling this ?

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 10:47:33 AM   
Adm. Ahab

 

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Joined: 8/5/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

The British and French don't even come close to replacing their losses against a determined German offensive in 1914 - wanna game??!! :)

Sure i'm up for a game my email is admahab@hotmail.com

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 3:06:32 PM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		Hi -good responses all around.  SMK- is your strategy effective vs. computer or human. i would think that the overall strategy would be slightly different regarding the 2. 

No initial expenditures on hQ's-thats definite-CP players doing that are hurting themselves.  Perhaps purchase of 2 subs in sep-oct '14 is a good idea.  i also purchase 6 barrage-gives you 12 arty attacks in Jan-feb '15 you need to keep your arty up. 

Judging by the manual gas attacks should be most effective onthe russians not the french as their quality is lowest.  i don't buy the gas myself but it is a mere 5 poits to poison gas and 6 pts for the lv 2 airplanes.  seeing as how you get 1-3 points per strategic phase you should porbably have thses by the january turn 1915. 

Regarding Diplomacy-against a human opponent is it worht purchasing dip pts?  does the entente player usually spend PP on diplomacy.  just wondering if it will turn out a s atug of war. 

naval- do you need to buy alot of naval early? i beleive you start with like 60 naval asset pts. those should last the first year to  no? 

Refits- a must buy you are going to be taking heavy casualties-perhaps more so if the russians push their full weight on prussia early.  It doesn't matter if they take Koningsburg or Danzig etc.  i defend there but am more worried about a 72 soviet attack on 24 B defense of those places.  it will hurt.  3 said attacks and you can expect to be down around 27 men.  

i still buy 1 trench on the sep-oct turn.  it gives you 5 total trenches to use and allows you to dig in on 1 part of your line allowing limited offensives elsewhere . to me it is simple-you cannot allow your guys to get shelled in open territory -defending open territory takes alot of korp thus they need to be dug in. 

thoughts are welcome. 




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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 3:55:07 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 3811
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		I think its worth getting Bulgaria to join the CPs as early as possible so you can start transferring raw materials from the Ottoman Empire to Germany.  Thats where the first CP diplomacy point goes, for me.  Whether its worth buying any more, I am less sure.

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 4:36:49 PM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		I think it is only Bulgaria and/or delaying Italy which it is really worth influencing diplomatically. buying 1 DP on the first couple of turns, to at the very least counter Entente influencing Italy to join and cross the alps before you can build a defensive line is a must, if you go all out France.

With luck you may even delay Italy a bit. If you go through Belgium you may be forced to put DP into Italy or suffer the consequences.

Remember, buying and using DP goes from your production and does not hurt your immediate offensive potential, while transferring troops from the front to the alps will be a handicap.

And a clarification about gas. You don't have to use all 4 shots in the same turn, just before the opponent reaches the same research level.

The point about gas is, it will be available on either turn two or three, where you should have France hurt seriously, and just need that extra push to put them over the edge. If used properly it is immensely effective at this point in the game.

I agree with not buying offensive points early with the CP. If you think you need more to crunch, then use some of the AH on the germans. Works just fine.

Buying 2 SUBS in the beginning seems as a good choice to me.

You need some trenches on the eastern front and even on the western front on the offensive to limit attrition from enemy barrages, where you are stacked fully in the open for offensive purposes.

One note on the eastern front though. I deploy the 7 class B German corps in the east stacked together in some of the fortresses. Usually i choose Breslau and Posen (or Thorn if feeling bravely).
I have learned the hard way to be careful to deploy in Königsberg, which is just to easy to cut from supply. Well Thorn can be as well, which is why it is imperative, to stack an HQ with your guys, so they can break out if (or when) cut off.

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Post #: 19
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 4:39:03 PM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		hi,

doing some early august barrage assault.  i tend to stack 4 arty in metz and 2 in the hex south of metz-straussburg i beleive it is.  the siege gun goes to shell verdun on impulse 1.  the other 15 art go towards shelling St mihiel with a spotter.  I invade luxemburg on turn 1-for some reason cannot get the cav over the river but nontheless gets you 3 inf into luxemburg-reinforcements close behind.  rail in the AH siege gun to straussburg -this allows it to be trained on st mihiel or nancy for impulse 2-3-4. 

I do not openly assault on impulse 1.  need to bleed these frnech alittle first.  total activation cost for turn 1 =1
AH holds a line 5 hexes long in rough /urban territory and will defend only.  i screen serbia off with 5 korps-maybe this is too much-since they don't have a spotter i could probably use a cav here etc. 

Impulse 2.  Siege gun from Metz should shell verdun again -decisions.. decisions.. assault now or impulse 3?
shell st mihiel with everything from straussburg-again with spotter.  One figures that the French would shuffle troops in and out of St mihiel on impulse 2 pulling in fresh korps from verdun and nancy.  that would argue for gong hvy on verdun and an assault there-the siege gun should remove fort number 2 if that is the case.  if it fails you can bleed though.  Against the computer i assaulted both and was successful at a high price to both sides.  on impulse 3 he usually retreats and you can work over nancy with AH siege guns and move the remaining arty from metz to verdun if it falls.  i rotate out my dmg korp and move in the fresh ones. this should be done on impulse 3 so you can assault once more on impulse 4. 

opinions are welcome.
cheers,
john


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Post #: 20
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 5:54:24 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 3811
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		I dont think you should be afraid to assault in 1914.  Before static warfare ensues casualties are often either about equal or in fact in favour of the attacker.  Especially if you have artillery support to soften the enemy up first.  France has a harder time replacing those casualties than Germany does, so if the odds are about even, attack!

Oddly enough the Western Front seems generally more mobile than the Eastern, as Russia runs out of HQ points real quick, whereas there are enough HQ points for Germany to attack at will until 1915 ends, and then after that if France is still around they can be attacking all through 1916 back themselves, assuming they didnt use any HQ points prior.

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Post #: 21
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 6:22:20 PM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		yeah its curious about the Hq situation.  it might have been easier to have a few Hq's and make it important to spend IP to keep rebuilding them rather than 6-8 at beginning at FS.  At start germany can afford -if i count correctly 7x3 and 1x2 Hq activations-this should last a long time. 

anyone figure out the modifiers for A-B -C -D lv units?  i realise it might be different from country to country. 



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Post #: 22
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/6/2007 6:38:50 PM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		I agree. Germany has more than 2 to 1 advantage in infantry. Avoid attacking permanent fortresses head on where possible, but don't be afraid to make attrition in the open.

Just remember to move new units in on the same hexes, your units attacked from. Either your attacks worked out and you can promptly penetrate the front, or you have follow up units in place for next impulse. In that way you only have to deploy 2 corps initially along the front facing the wrath of french artillery.

Be careful with low readiness units - leave them in the rear to rest. You have numerical superiority to do this, the France doesn't

But much depends on how many spotters you get. I usually use them on hexes which i might attack if the circumstances were right i.e. hexes without permanent fortification. Artillery will mainly be used against these hexes then benefiting from increased efficiency by the observers. You may have to attack twice but in that case usually eliminate the defenders totally.

One advice. When you have penetrated the front line, try to advance directly through the front spreading out, while attacking the adjacent hexes the same time. Why ? Because potential movement (retreat/counterattack) orders on those hexes are being canceled and you can begin to surround them and move towards Paris.

An example. Say you take the hex directly south of Verdun, and reduce the Verdun fortification level at the same time. Next impulse you have the option to swing NW towards Paris from the penetrated hex in the front line while pinning the units in Verdun with an attack from Luxemburg (eliminating the remaining fortification level with siege artillery). You have achieved a breakthrough.

Off course a clever french player will have reserves behind the front to counter this, together with his complete artillery hitting your troops stacked fully in the open without entrenchment, but that's the price you have to pay.

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Post #: 23
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/7/2007 12:37:47 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3067
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		I mucked up my memory of gas sorry - I had thought you got it for a single strategic phase rathe then for 4 attacks.

Certainly it's an option - and perhaps a better one in the game than in the beta's, since Germany seems to get a lot more resources in v1 than it used to (I haven't got any Beta's to install, but IIRC getting about 11 points in the first strat phase viz 19 in the substantive game)

bombarding the carp out of the French forts works vs any opponent - I'm currently playing a PBEM game where I accidentally forgot to invade Belgium - I had the siege artillery lined up there and had to manually move it to the French front - and I had still blasted a hole by the end of the 1st strat turn!
We're now in the 2nd turn in 1915, and I have Paris surrounded on 4 hex-sides from the south, have captured Orleans and Loire - France should fall soon......

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Post #: 24
RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/7/2007 12:59:35 AM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		SMK,

what is your usual initial disposition against the Russians. 
Furthermore, as entente-what does player susually do as the Russians?  I stack hvy on the AH front and bleed them as much as possible but perhaps it is better to stack everything save a screening force and push on germany...

an extremely gutsy manuever would be to screen both the central and northern russian axis and mass forces on the turkey border.




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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/7/2007 1:08:42 AM   
EUBanana


Posts: 3811
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: j campbell

SMK,

what is your usual initial disposition against the Russians.
Furthermore, as entente-what does player susually do as the Russians? I stack hvy on the AH front and bleed them as much as possible but perhaps it is better to stack everything save a screening force and push on germany...

an extremely gutsy manuever would be to screen both the central and northern russian axis and mass forces on the turkey border.


I've tried out various tactics with Russia now - Germany, Austria or the Caucasus - I think the best bet is to hit Germany to be honest.

There are more high value targets here than there are anywhere else. Konigsberg-Danzig-Posen-Berlin, the Germans cannot ignore a major Russian advance along this axis.

While you can lean on Austria and it is true that Austria will crack fairly easily there simply isnt much there of great value, and Austria is not really a threat to the Entente like Germany is. Certainly at the beginning of the game France needs help, right now, and attacking Austria is not going to help France.

Attacking the Ottomans over the Caucasus is actually fairly easy in my experience. Combined with a British assault from Egypt up towards Jerusalem you can make the Ottoman Empire fold quite quickly. I think once the initial "save France!" phase is over, this might well be useful, as the Ottoman Empire is critical to the Central Powers economy.

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/7/2007 1:27:39 AM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		excellent point  how many german korp do u use to protect the EF?  against the computer 3 is enough but against a human player perhaps 5 is needed-maybe more.  the soviets er sorry russians have 4 army groups to start with outside of the caucusus so it is reasonable to assume you will be facing pleve-brusilov-and at least 1 another lv 1 of those guys and some art etc. 

I agree then in theory that it is more important to push through Prussia to divert attention from Germany on France.  Not to mention if the garrison is weak you can inflict relatively hvy (in ratio) casualties on the german units  (1 casualty has a 12% chance at morale reduction so it is significant-not to mention it is 1 IP f orrevery 7 hits)


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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/7/2007 1:56:10 AM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Well, we really need more discussions on opening strategies :0)

Russia must also face the possibility of a Russia first CP strategy and deploy accordingly. As the most vital morale based cities are in the north (Riga, Minsk), the more sensible choice for Russia would be to deploy ample forces facing EP from the east side.

In order to cut of potential German units in EP another force should be north of Warsaw, which also makes it faster to advance in NW direction, if EP is left without garrison.

Deploying around Lodz is gambling on a CP France first strategy where you risk encirclement from EP and AH.

Leaving a cavalry screen along most of the border and also facing AH, is a cost effective way without risk i.e. cavalry apparently just withdraws from combat ?

Hurting AH or OE is fun but does not help if France falls. If France holds their ground, it is obvious a brilliant strategy

The only thing Germany really is having a problem with early, is taking their food and capital away. You can easily take away 3 food resources.

With regard to German deployment in the east, i don't defend east of Posen. Your units will just be bagged and destroyed while out of supply. But a couple of cavalry units to screen the Russian front is worthwhile in my opinion.

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/7/2007 2:00:22 AM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Campbell,

A clarification regarding casualties - it's a 12 % chance of exhaustion increase and not morale reduction.

But still important to avoid off course.

And you need your replacements in the west.

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RE: thoughts on playing against human opponent. - 8/7/2007 2:05:13 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3067
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		If I'm going against France I put 6 German B Corps in East Prussia - 3 in each of Thorn and Kongisberg - they are generally sufficient to stop the Russians cold if the Russians do not concentrate their entire army agains them!

IMO the Russians can easily take the 3 Galician cities of Premzyl, Krakow and Lemberg (?) - that's 30+ points and a serious blow to Austrian Morale - you have have them down to "merely" strong by the end of the 1st turn!  The AI isn't usually focused enough to do so, but a human player can.

Against the AI or an incautious human it's not too hard for the Russians to take East Prussia as well since it is often not well garrisoned (ie not as well as I garrison it!)

In the PBEM game where I'm the TE I've done all that with the Russians (except for Krakow - an artillery unit beat back an attack on its own dammit.....)- plus also took Brelsau with a single inf corps piggy backing with a Cav Corps and a 1 point activation to take the city.  I wont' be able to keep it all (I did the same in a beta test PBEM so I know this....) as the German phase 2 reinforcements will easily push the Russians back. 

But it gives the Russians breathing room and means the Germans aren't going to be sending any extra troops to France any time soon.

A full court press into Germany from Poland would be the nightmare the Germans were really worried about for sure......but it does leave the Russian army horribly exposed if the Austrians attack north into Poland and cut the Russians off .....it might be an interesting exercise....

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