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BEF to France 1914

 
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BEF to France 1914 - 8/3/2007 3:55:39 PM   
Bismarck


Posts: 558
Joined: 9/23/2000
Status: offline 		Let me see if I have this right: To move the BEF to France, I need 4 transports with amphib orders and control of either the North Sea or North Atlantic. Forces then, using amphib movement, should go from Southampton to Calais or Dunkirk.

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Jim Cobb
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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/3/2007 8:04:37 PM   
Sytass


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Status: offline 		I think to ship from Southhampton you need the transports in North Sea, from Plymouth you need the Atlantic (or vice versa, I am not good at that  ).

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/3/2007 11:11:07 PM   
AdmNelson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sytass

I think to ship from Southhampton you need the transports in North Sea, from Plymouth you need the Atlantic (or vice versa, I am not good at that  ).


you have each of those right

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Very Proud Marine Dad

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/4/2007 1:30:34 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3080
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		You can also go to Antwerp rathe than France if you have amphib ships in the Nth Sea

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/4/2007 4:16:33 AM   
Bismarck


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Status: offline 		Still at a loss.  I have all the Brit troops in Southampton, 4 transports in the North Sea, sortied evrything  in Scaoa to the North Sea on patrol, activated Haaig,but can only move Haig to Calais,  Amphib movement disappears when I try to move the rest as aa stack, indie or strategic. What am I leaving out?

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/4/2007 5:10:25 AM   
Szilard

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Still at a loss.  I have all the Brit troops in Southampton, 4 transports in the North Sea, sortied evrything  in Scaoa to the North Sea on patrol, activated Haaig,but can only move Haig to Calais,  Amphib movement disappears when I try to move the rest as aa stack, indie or strategic. What am I leaving out?


If you've strat moved units to Southampton, you have to wait for the next impulse before you can transport them by sea.

Also, if Belgium isn't at war, UK seems to have only limited ability to transport by sea.

BTW, don't need to activate units to transport them.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/4/2007 7:10:00 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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Status: offline 		If Belgiu isn't at war then you can't move to belgium and have to land in France.

As Szi said - you can't use amphib in a phase where you've already moved.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/4/2007 9:00:54 AM   
AdmNelson


Posts: 473
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From: New Mexico
Status: offline 		The question I have to this-- do the transports need to be all in the same squadron or separate squardrons?

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/4/2007 9:08:15 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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Status: offline 		What squadrons?  A transport is a transport is a transport - it doesn't matter where it comes from, only where it is and what it's task is :)

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Post #: 9
RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/4/2007 5:05:33 PM   
Bismarck


Posts: 558
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Status: offline 		My problem was that the CP hadn't DOW'd Belgium yet.  Just my luck; get an AI that knows the faults of the Schieflem plan - probably won't use gas or unrestricted U-boat war either.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/5/2007 2:53:04 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3080
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		You can still send the BEF to France tho - there are French ports in both the Nth Sea and Nth Atlantic, so they can move regardless as long as you've got the transports ready.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/5/2007 3:18:53 AM   
Szilard

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

You can still send the BEF to France tho - there are French ports in both the Nth Sea and Nth Atlantic, so they can move regardless as long as you've got the transports ready.


This might have changed since you tested - seems like UK has limited shipment for the first turn (?) if Belgium isn't in the war.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/5/2007 3:52:09 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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Status: offline 		Are you sure it isn't the way you've stacked your transports, because this would be a completely untested feature not included in any of hte Beta's.

Edit - just tried it hot seat and it looks like you're right - only 1 move per strat phase if Belgium isn't in the war...not a bad idea for giving some sort of reaction for that opportunity (in hte beta's there was no change whehter Belgium was in or not)......it makes it much easier to KO France, and probably needed some sort of testing - I suspect the war would have been much more limited if this had happened...

< Message edited by SMK-at-work -- 8/5/2007 4:00:59 AM >

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/5/2007 4:51:09 AM   
FrankHunter

 

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Status: offline 		Yes, it was added late in the testing.  The idea being that as I've said before, in my opinion, Britain wasn't going to stay out of the war but I could see a delay in deploying the BEF to the Continent unless the Low Counties were invaded.  When the Ottoman's enter the war its necessary for that restriction to be lifted too.


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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/5/2007 5:00:56 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Which makes some sense, but also makes life pretty easy for the CP IMO - am playing a PBEM game where I forgot to declare war on Belgium - I was all set up to do it, honest....and still pretty much breezed through the French forts along the boder despite having to move the troops there without any strat movement ability to speak of - took the 1 level hex south of Verdun first, then pounded Verdun and took it without too much bother.....

I wonder if it's possible to say that if Germany doesn't declare war on Belgium then it must be following an eastern strategy - so if it has too may troops in the West then it automatically declares war on Belgium whether the player likes it or not?  (eg more than "x" corps - enough to have a decent defensive line) - it's a bit convoluted......and a bit artificial, but the Germans did only have 2 plans for fightign the war - Schliefflen thought Belgium....or fight the Russians first....and we know which one they chose....



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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/5/2007 12:38:05 PM   
hjaco

 

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Status: offline 		Well, there are no restrictions on british troops entering France after turn 1, so it really is up to your opponent, how to deploy and defend properly with French on the initial turns

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/5/2007 7:21:49 PM   
marc420

 

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Status: offline 		Of course, the catch is that you have to know what's happening.  Since the game doesn't tell you, its a bit of a mystery.  And not a good one if you don't know to save some naval points for the second turn when you can really move.  Yet another little mystery feature that the game doesn't bother to tell you about.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/6/2007 8:42:46 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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Status: offline 		I still think it's a bit unbalanced - even though the restriction only lasts one turn - the Germans can have broken through and be well on hte way to Paris by the end of T1, and it's at least another 2 combat phases after that before the bulk of the BEF can get into action - 1 to transport, another to strat move....so that's 6 combat phases total...that's a lot when you're French ally is getting smashed to pieces!!

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/6/2007 9:34:33 AM   
hjaco

 

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Status: offline 		That is one way to look at it.

In my opinion it is already difficult enough to play CP. For game balance reasons alone i would like to keep things as they are.

As game experience is piling up, the Entente will sooner a later find the most effective countermeasure to this. I for my part have already begun to defend more humble with the French from the beginning to buy time.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/6/2007 2:46:49 PM   
EUBanana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

That is one way to look at it.

In my opinion it is already difficult enough to play CP. For game balance reasons alone i would like to keep things as they are.



I agree.

And while this is going on Russia is taking Konigsberg, Thorn, and if they are doing well, Danzig.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/6/2007 4:08:09 PM   
hjaco

 

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Status: offline 		Or crushing Austria

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/7/2007 12:49:14 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3080
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From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Being able to esily crush France by mid 1915 makes the game seriously pro-CP - especially given that Italy will enter on the CP side if you do it soon enough.

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Post #: 22
RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/7/2007 1:42:14 AM   
j campbell


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/20/2001
From: Grosse Pointe, MI
Status: offline 		SMK -pehaps true enough. 

History and wargaming will never match up.  In reality the Germans posessed tons more firepower than the allies had and used it along with superior leadership (more NCO's and officers with better quality) to effectively  attack the allies and push their way just outside paris (relatively speaking).  This in an era where the defender was reigning absolute supreme-one only has to look to the Russo-japanese war to see what entrenched defenders were capable of.  when the allies attacked in the same fashion (lacking those aforementioned qualities they were slaughtered.

once it was realised that the great battle of annhilation was not going to be they were content to fall back on a better defensive line (sitting atop most of france's natural resources) and defend. 

no gamer is going to adhere to plan 17-simple as that. 

the defender should roll dice first-casualties removed from attacking stacks then attacker rolls with the resultant strength -that would make alittel more sense.  initial artillery dispositions should be heavily in favor of germany  with barrages occuring prior to infantry combat


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Post #: 23
RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/7/2007 2:10:42 AM   
hjaco

 

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Status: offline 		And the rules exactly simulates that. Attacker casualties are calculated and removed before shooting back.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/7/2007 2:13:05 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3080
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		Ah yes......the  much beloved "what if's" of wargamers everywhere - I'd have it as an option - so you can play without any restrictions if you want (heavily favouring the CP IMO), or a semi-historical "Russia first" scenario with some sort of restriction on how many units the CP can deploy in the west thus limiting the BEF (I'd make it for longer than 1 turn in this case) but also not allowing the Germans to do something they never contemplated, or a "France first" scenario, which automatically puts Belgium at war.

The fact that Germany can breeze through the French fort line suggests to me that something is a bit unbalanced - perhaps the forts need to be a bit stronger or siege artillery a bit weaker?

Possibly forts would be best a bit differentiated from entrenchements as being stronger and harder to reduce - siege artillery can destroy entrenchments, but only reduces forts 1 level, and normal artillery does not affect forts, or something like that?




< Message edited by SMK-at-work -- 8/7/2007 2:14:30 AM >

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/7/2007 2:18:45 AM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with you about the durability of permanent fortresses in GOA and your suggestion, although it would give a problem with Liege then.

I mean, what the Germans didn't throw at Verdun in 1915 without much success ?

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/7/2007 2:46:54 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3080
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		you could make Liege a 1 point fortress - so it could still be reduced in 1 bombardment as it can now.

the Germans did capture and effectively destroy a lot of the Verdun forts - but then some of them were not properly manned in the first place.  IMO the actual effect might be adequately simulated by combat & bombardment hitting them down from 2 to 1, or even 0, without taking the hex.

A fortress would be a new feature for the rules tho, so probably requires some major work and not something that might happen soon, if at all.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/8/2007 5:16:59 AM   
Def Zep


Posts: 223
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From: Out of the Silent Planet
Status: offline 		Hi SMK,

quote:

The fact that Germany can breeze through the French fort line suggests to me that something is a bit unbalanced - perhaps the forts need to be a bit stronger or siege artillery a bit weaker?


That some people are reporting (Initial Questions 29-32) that fortress hexes must be vacant of all defenders before thay can be occupied, means it takes two successive impulses to capture one.

If so, this seems to balance their effect a bit better, imho.

Perhaps Frank or one of the devs could confirm this (or, make the "two-step" rule a feature).

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/8/2007 7:06:13 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

Posts: 3080
Joined: 8/28/2000
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Status: offline 		I've never had that problem.

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RE: BEF to France 1914 - 8/8/2007 10:01:40 AM   
hjaco

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Well i have consistently that problem with Liege, which is why i really hate going thorough Belgium. Miss that attack because of remaining fortification level and you will face it stacked to the full with Brits next impulse unless you get lucky and advance their first.

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