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Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 7/9/2007 7:03:24 PM   
KG Erwin


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For those interested in the progress of the epic HBO "The Pacific War" miniseries, check this out:

http://www.warriorsinc.com/cfblog/

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 7/10/2007 4:58:35 AM   
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Very cool. Not sure I like the term 'Maxi-Series', though.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 7/14/2007 9:18:26 AM   
trauth116

 

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After reading the initial post from 22 June 2007, I think Mr Dye needs a remedial lesson on some Australian military history ---

specifically the bit about:

quote:

There are still some old folks here in the city who remember those times and talking to them is a real inspiration. While the younger generation of Australians (much like our younger generation of Americans) doesn't know much about World War II, those old Aussies remember that it was a close run affair back in 1942 when the Japanese Empire was casting greedy eyes on Australia. They understand that only the intervention of the American Marines put a stop to that and they remain grateful for it.


..only the intervention of the US Marines??? Open letter to Mr Dye - Cpt is it? Well Mr Dye, since you are now in Oz, may I humbly suggest you get your arse over to a bookstore and do a little reading on something called the Kokoda Trail where a handful of Australians fought off a Japanese division in a place no American unit could have gotten to in time. - only the US Marines??? - what a condescending phallic symbolic thing to have said. The Australians fought and paid pretty damned dearly for their own salvation -and if it matters too -I think the guys in the US Army might also have a case as well, since I think a fair amount of those guys were flying in the New Guinea region -or is it that only apparently Guadalcanal mattered... (mind you I thought the USN was pretty damned proud of their sacrifices at Coral Sea...) and didn't the CA HMAS Canberra go down at Savo Island too???

In short, if you are going to make such an idiotically condescending post - try to recognize people being polite and not pointing out your incredibly rude and insensitive gaff.

JHC, Australians are Gd'ed proud of their sacrifices in WWII -especially in New Guinea, and especially the Kokoda Trail -and rightfully so, please figure out that when you make such an asinine statement as you did, that you are crapping on other people's sacrifices and contribution.





< Message edited by trauth116 -- 7/14/2007 9:27:42 AM >


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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 7/14/2007 11:20:34 PM   
KG Erwin


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Whoa, settle down, trauth116. This gamer is well aware of the contributions made by the Aussies. No need to take offense, OK?

Remember this -- "Band Of Brothers" was centered upon an American unit, the 2nd Bn/506th Parachute Infantry Regiment. "The Pacific War" is gonna focus upon the fabled 1st Marine Division. It's high time they earned their due.

Jeez, man, the 1stMarDiv's theme is "Waltzing Matilda".

Addendum: you have a great movie called "Kokoda", which features the sacrifices made by the 39th Battalion. The Aussies aren't neglected in film, my friend.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 7/15/2007 12:07:49 AM   
NefariousKoel


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Besides.. Dye was a Marine (IIRC) so he's a little biased that way.  Not surprising.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 7/15/2007 12:20:02 AM   
trauth116

 

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Erwin, the offense I took was at Mr Dye's own words and his thickheaded inability or reluctance to recognize other people's courteousness. I, being born, and raised in the USA had heard the same sort of appreciation of US assistance -seeing as the UK couldn't manage it, during WWII -despite that I am only in my early 40's... this was never ever specifically directed to one branch of the service despite the oo-raw bull that Dye posted, and to be damned sure it could never have been meant to come off as the "damsel in distress- 'ooh thank you for saving us'" tone that comes off as posted by a wanker.

You know I actually intended to post something about getting rained on in Melbourne and getting what they deserved for locating there -especially in the middle of Southern Hemisphere Winter, but I read more of that guy's posting -and it floored me.

I know that Dye was the military adviser in BoB, aside from being Col Sink, and presume he is doing the same thing in this production. I also have a couple of the guy's books that I finally managed to remember about after reading more of his site) -so I know exactly who the guy is ---

I think the "humble" Cpt Dye might consider visiting an RSL club or 2 while here, mention that load of crap he wrote to some veterans or vet's sons and then he might get a little instant enlightenment on the period - because after reading his entry - it is excruciatingly obvious that aside from lacking humility- he is also lacking in some basic history. I used to respect the guy, but now I see that was not warranted. It is a pretty sad state when people that claim to be "historical experts" can be so ignorant; I wonder how much of that is intentional.

The point too -was that aside from slighting Australia's contribution (which is dumb enough), this guy managed to also slight -the SW Pacific Command, and the US Navy - so in effect the USMC landing on Guadalcanal "saved Australia" - it makes me wonder what this guy has been on? "Chesty Puller Juice"? How stupid are his readers supposed to be?

Films- I don't know what I wrote above that may have given the impression that I thought there was some sort of film depiction disparity and that was the problem, but it seems like it happened that way. What I posted was solely concerning Mr Dye's BLOG and not this production itself.

But to be clear, as I only took issue with Dye; and from what he wrote. I disagree that there is no need to take offense. I think someone needs to take offense when someone claiming to be an expert writes something so boneheaded as what that guy did.


Edited: I assumed the guy was writing to more than just Marines or former Marines. Unfortunately, I know I am not allowed to communicate in standard accepted Australian business terminology as would be considered profanity in America -but the guy deserves to know that he comes off as a F-wit.


< Message edited by trauth116 -- 7/15/2007 12:32:53 AM >


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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 7/15/2007 12:29:21 AM   
KG Erwin


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Perhaps you should e-mail Capt Dye, then. I think you'd get a response from him. Seriously -- if you feel this strongly, then you should write him.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 7/15/2007 12:35:53 AM   
trauth116

 

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Fair enough, I will consider doing that. And I appreciate the reply.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 7/15/2007 4:27:51 AM   
The Plodder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: trauth116

Well Mr Dye, since you are now in Oz, may I humbly suggest you get your arse over to a bookstore and do a little reading on something called the Kokoda Trail where a handful of Australians fought off a Japanese division in a place no American unit could have gotten to in time.


I was going to ask why would any Aussie call it the Kokoda "Trail" when it's referred to as the Kokoda "Track"(usually corrected with a lot swearing if you get it wrong ) but then I saw this
quote:

I, being born, and raised in the USA
so I guess you're forgiven for that little transgression

I totally agree with you BTW. When I read the blog entry I thought, what no mention of Kokoda? But Capt. Dye is making a film about his beloved Corps so he's bound to be seeing everything with Marine-coloured glasses...I just hope the series gives an accurate representation of the campaigns and is not a load of hoo rah crap.

< Message edited by The Plodder -- 7/15/2007 4:28:44 AM >


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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/12/2007 6:36:46 AM   
KG Erwin


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Dye has just posted an update:  http://www.warriorsinc.com/cfblog/

This is sounding better and better.    

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/12/2007 6:45:45 AM   
The Plodder


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Heh, it's funny, I look up at the bugger almost every night and it never occurred to me that it's the Southern Cross on the 1st Div. patch in your sig.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/12/2007 10:59:17 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Dye has just posted an update: http://www.warriorsinc.com/cfblog/

This is sounding better and better.


Thanks for the updates on this, KG. I read about the 2 week 'boot camp', and all I can think of is Ron Livingston's video diary of the BoB 'boot camp'. Funny stuff.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/12/2007 6:47:31 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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Sounds like the guy is going to put half the actors in the hospital so that the loading of an 81 mm mortar looks authentic on film One of the actors had to be medevac'ed according to the blog.

We survived and thrived with only one man lost to light duty and another who required medical evacuation from the field.


Hard to fault his enthusiasm, but I can imagine the producer asking him the "ease up a bit".

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/12/2007 7:10:49 PM   
Terminus


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That's the way Dale Dye does his thing. Did it first with Platoon, and it worked...

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/12/2007 7:15:57 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

That's the way Dale Dye does his thing. Did it first with Platoon, and it worked...


Yes, I know...still funny though

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/12/2007 7:25:50 PM   
Terminus


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True, true...

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/12/2007 8:54:01 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Trauth, while you're right about the Australian contribution and most Americans are not as well-versed in non-US contributions to WWII as they should be... I think your reaction was a bit much. I'm guessing Dye was looking at it from the standpoint of what would have happened if the Aussies did what they did in Kokoda but there was no US help as far as carriers, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, army or marine brigades. No Guadalcanal, no Coral Sea, Eastern Solomons, etc. I think we can all agree that Australia would have been pretty darn hard pressed despite the valor and heroics of its own men.

It was no doubt a team effort, but as a Marine working on a series about Marines, he looks at the key turning point as the contribution of the Marines - that's the way Marines are, but I doubt someone with his background is really unaware of how many men from other countries gave their lives to stop the Japanese in the South Pacific.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/13/2007 3:21:07 PM   
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From the Aussie POV the two defining battles of the Pacific war were Kokoda track AND the battle of the Coral Sea ( which still gets press coverage every  )anniversary

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/13/2007 3:26:45 PM   
Terminus


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I'm still having trouble getting over just how creepy your avatar is, Brother Raver...

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/14/2007 12:58:15 PM   
Raverdave


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Ain't it coooooolllllllll

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/14/2007 1:18:28 PM   
Terminus


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That would be a no... Who has a pink toilet, anyway?

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/14/2007 1:22:00 PM   
Raverdave


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*sigh* when I was a kid the "pink" toilet was in vogue  circa 1964-68.   It was pink with the "lid" being black plastic.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/14/2007 1:26:16 PM   
Terminus


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(shudder)...

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/15/2007 8:54:24 AM   
trauth116

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Trauth...


Respectfully I have to disagree - I believe that my reaction was right on the mark. Australians I have met, will typically *strictly out of courtesy* refer to America and the war - What Mr Dye wrote - read that he took that to be the proverbial kiss on the proferred ring. The conversations that Mr Dye so colloquially mentioned was, in my personal experience, definitely not the matter of deference that Mr Dye's own words made it out to be.
The part I am specifically referring to is his entry:

quote:

They understand that only the intervention of the American Marines put a stop to that and they remain grateful for it.
Underline added for emphasis.

Only? Imo, that is a little more than mere prideful posturing of an ex-jarhead- but more about completely missing the point about what those people he had had conversations with. Now this is something no American is going to figure out until they come down to Australia for a while, and talk to people of that same generation themselves. I mean, really, if you are expected to be a historical expert, it shouldn't be all that that unrealistic to actually write like one.

On another note:
-Interestingly enough the Battle of Guadalcanal nor Coral Sea (or Santa Cruz, or Eastern Solomons or, etc...) get no coverage in the USA on their anniversaries (you ca't really count some crap program on the History Channel as such either imo) - Hiroshima usually does as does Pearl Harbor; it is an interesting juxtaposition that Coral Sea and Kokoda track - does get such regular coverage in Australia in the mainstream news outlets.

I think though in considering things, the only person I would seriously consider contacting might be Peter FitzSimons.






< Message edited by trauth116 -- 8/15/2007 9:02:31 AM >

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/15/2007 9:09:48 AM   
The Plodder


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quote:

I think though in considering things, the only person I would seriously consider contacting might be Peter FitzSimons.


LOL, now his reaction to Capt. Dye's remarks would be interesting to hear. We'd probably hear him from this side of the Tasman..


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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/15/2007 12:50:11 PM   
aysi

 

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I think though in considering things, the only person I would seriously consider contacting might be Peter FitzSimons.

Sorry to chime in but there are far better authors\historians to consult before i would listen to this guy,really he is just a big blow hard that loves the sound of his own voice.I thought his kokoda book was very poor just a rehash of the Australians at war series and Lex McAulays two great books,Peter Hams Kokoda from last year is far better,but FitzSimons has the machine behind him so he gets all the press.After a book on Kokoda and Trobruk i dont know what other famous Aussie battle he can cherry pick,bet he is pissed that Les Carlyon wrote that Gallipoli book a couple of years ago...........maybe he will make one up

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/15/2007 4:05:18 PM   
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Peter Brune wrote a better account of the the track in his book "Those raggard bloody heros".  Les Carlyon is up there as one of the best Military (Australian) writers.   Peter Fitzsimons writes for the "General Public" but at least he is getting Australian's to read Australian military history even if it is jingoistic.

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/15/2007 5:21:14 PM   
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Fitzsimons is a bit of a knob IMHO.

Cheers, Neilster

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/16/2007 8:56:40 AM   
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The truth is better than the myth.
 
Post war, the Japanese records were studied and they had no firm plans to invade Australia.
 
However the Allies did not know that at the time and the Japanese had just achieved one victory after another.
 
It was obvious to the Japanese that the US would use Australia as a base to start counterattacks. So the Japanese wanted to control the air and the sea to the east of Australia thereby cutting communication.
 
The plan was straightforward.  Capture Port Moresby and Guadalcanal and project air and sea power form there.
 
They landed troops on the north coast of Papua New Guinea and marched over the Kokoda Track to attack Port Moresby. An invasion fleet set out to attack Port Moresby from the sea.
 
At the same time a force would construct an airfield on Guadalcanal.
 
The Australian army defeated the Japanese on Kokoda, the US marines defeated the Japanese on Guadalcanal and a US fleet intercepted the invasion fleet in the Battle of the Coral Sea.
 
Due to the heavy fighting in both locations, the Japanese were unable to combine their forces which meant that strategically speaking, the US marines and the Australian army were supporting each other inspite of being thousands of ks apart. As they continue to do today.
-

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RE: Dale Dye's "Pacific War" Blog - 8/18/2007 1:11:33 AM   
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This is interesting: apparently one of the actors couldn't hack Dye's bootcamp routine, so the guy just packed up and left. No names will be mentioned, but he would've been one of the main characters. The cast list has been reshuffled.





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