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Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST!

 
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Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/15/2007 7:30:31 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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I noticed that it appeared as though strikes were getting thrown up too quickly, so I decided to do a little analysis using the "Run 5" button.

I armed my a/c after midnight, waited for a target to be reported, and then went to Run 5 mode. At 6:40 I arranged a cohesive strike of all available, non-CAP a/c, hit launch and then went to the flight deck screen. I watched them go on deck, launch and progress through forming-up. By 7:05, all a/c were indicated as being "On Mission."

What's really kind of startling about the above is that the four carriers only spotted 104 a/c between them. As indicated by the jpg below, 169 a/c were employed, This means, one and two-thirds deckloads of a/c were spotted (which is a tangle because Val weren't armed until they were on-deck), warmed-up, launched, formed up and on their way in but twenty minutes.

I realize that this is a game, but it's also true that it's supposed to put the player in the role of a commander making important decisions about how a battle will be fought. With that in mind, I fervently believe that a critical design consideration should be that CaW offer a (semi)accurate portrayal of the time scales that would impact such decisions.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)






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< Message edited by Prince of Eckmühl -- 6/15/2007 7:32:15 PM >


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RE: Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/15/2007 9:45:37 PM   
MarkShot


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Yes, from my experience with HTTR/COTA, realistic delays and time frames for operations impacts strategy in a very big way. It also adds greatly the simulating the feeling of command.

However, it needs to apply both equally to the human's units and the OPFOR's units.

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RE: Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/16/2007 12:43:24 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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A second and third look has provided me with some more thoughts on this matter.

In those 20-25 minutes, the Soryu and Hiryu (spot=24), moved ALL their a/c, 60 from each carrier, from fuel and arm, to spotted, to launching and then forming up, before flying away on mission.

In terms of game mechanics, for those two ships, the practical result is very similar to what we might see were we playing Avalon Hill's Midway.

When conducting the same strike with the cohesive option turned off, strike groups composed of the sum of the TG's most recent launch were formed, and then went on mission without waiting for those a/c that had yet to launch, but just as many a/c were eventually sent on mission, some of them just reached the target later.

Respectfully, I have to ask: why are the game mechanics constructed in such a way as to allow so many a/c to be rotated through the fuel and arm/spot/launch/forming up/on mission cycle so quickly? Has any thought ever been given to slowing this down? If not, was it left as is out of concern that lengthening the cycle might break something?

PoE (aka ivanmoe)






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RE: Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/16/2007 12:54:35 AM   
82nd Airborne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl


In terms of game mechanics, for those two ships, the practical result is very similar to what we might see were we playing Avalon Hill's Midway.






i loved that game! this is the closest thing to it i've found.

of course you are right that the cycle seems way too fast though.

carry on




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RE: Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/16/2007 1:05:12 AM   
Rebel Yell


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Bumping this, as, on the whole good-bad thing, this would be....bad.

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RE: Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/16/2007 3:21:31 AM   
alexs


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Hi Guys,
We'll check this out.


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RE: Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/16/2007 3:25:01 AM   
AVisme

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl

I armed my a/c after midnight, waited for a target to be reported, and then went to Run 5 mode. At 6:40 I arranged a cohesive strike of all available, non-CAP a/c, hit launch and then went to the flight deck screen. I watched them go on deck, launch and progress through forming-up. By 7:05, all a/c were indicated as being "On Mission."




quote:

In those 20-25 minutes, the Soryu and Hiryu (spot=24), moved ALL their a/c, 60 from each carrier, from fuel and arm, to spotted, to launching and then forming up, before flying away on mission.




what is the arming time, that should be added to the present 20-25 minute observation, yes?

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RE: Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/16/2007 3:38:33 AM   
Adam Parker


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Check this out:

Step 1: Recover a strike on an carrier TG.

Step 2: Wait for its position market to change from a triangle to a circle.

Step 3: Change game speed to 0.

Step 4: Go to the carrier deck screen.

Step 5: Press rearm.

Step 6: Change game speed to 1 for a second and watch your squadrons jump to operational status.

Step 7: Change game speed to 0.

Step 8: Voila - You're ready to fly strikes again at your leisure!

That's pretty quick abstracted recovery-rearm cycle huh? A bit of a simple clickfest 

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RE: Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/16/2007 3:54:11 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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From observation, the arming time looks more reasonable. It's the nature of these games that the details of such operations are less than transparent. Still, using the "run 5" methodology I describe above, it appeared to take 25-30 minutes to arm ALL of an IJN carriers a/c, approximately sixty in number.

The real rub in the rest of the process is likely the "spot" portion of the equation.

For the IJN...

Aircraft had to be pushed onto an elevator, raised to deck level, pushed to their pre-designated place on the deck, started and warmed-up. Only then would the pilots emerge from below-decks to take command of their a/c from the plane-handlers and commence the take off routine. Complicating the process, would be the necessity of arming the Vals, as it was not done in the hangar (as was true with the Zeros and Kates), the practical impact of which would be to lengthen the spot-cycle of an IJN carrier launching dive-bombers. This would typically take 30 minutes, or more, for a deck-load strike (a complete VB or VT squadron of 18-21 a/c, plus 6-9 VF). Throw in a incident-free launch sequence, and you'd be looking at 40-45 minutes total, again for a deck-load launch that was part of a larger cohesive strike, the cornerstone of IJN attack doctrine.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)





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RE: Strike Launch Cycle TOO FAST! - 6/16/2007 3:59:07 AM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Check this out:

Step 1: Recover a strike on an carrier TG.

Step 2: Wait for its position market to change from a triangle to a circle.

Step 3: Change game speed to 0.

Step 4: Go to the carrier deck screen.

Step 5: Press rearm.

Step 6: Change game speed to 1 for a second and watch your squadrons jump to operational status.

Step 7: Change game speed to 0.

Step 8: Voila - You're ready to fly strikes again at your leisure!

That's pretty quick abstracted recovery-rearm cycle huh? A bit of a simple clickfest


Adam,

I didn't see your post before I slapped my own up. While I haven't paused to verify the details of you've written, it may be that what's really going on is that only part of the planes that you're "arming and fueling" have actually completed the process. Again, there are "transparency" issues with these games. Of course, I could be FOS too! If so, forgive me my transgression.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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