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A Kharkov Sneak Peek...

 
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A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 5/31/2007 3:20:34 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		More official info will come soon, but here's a quick look at a few of the things that are on the way...






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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 5/31/2007 3:21:11 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		Second sneak peek screenshot...




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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 5/31/2007 3:21:53 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		And the third and last screenshot in this brief sneak peek. Feel free to ask questions!




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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 5/31/2007 4:53:19 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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Status: offline 		I realize that the screens above cite examples of how Kharkov is distinctive from Operation Winters Storm, but could you list the differences for us?

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 5/31/2007 9:26:43 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		Will do, PoE, I'm working on just such a list right now, along with a few more screenshots. There's a lot to talk about as far as improvements go.

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/1/2007 12:35:18 AM   
ravinhood


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Status: offline 		Will this one have a random battle generator or quick battles like Combat Mission??

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 1:31:57 AM   
general_solomon

 

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Status: offline 		I like the improvements already.  please keep the screen comming. 

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:35:04 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Will this one have a random battle generator or quick battles like Combat Mission??


Not like Combat Mission, no - there's no front-end to generate quick random battles. Panzer Command differs from Combat Mission in a lot of ways though, in some ways it's more flexible, in other ways not. This is one area where we have not yet had the time to implement something as user-friendly as their full quick battle generator.

With that said, we do provide some quick battles where the force mix is comprehensive and much larger than the available points, with the intention that the battle be used to create a variety of skirmishes between different forces on that map.

There is also a greatly enhanced scenario editor included with this version, thanks to the tireless work of John "Laryngoscope" Sestan. Scenario design time is a fraction of what it was in Winterstorm as a result and with the many new maps, I think creating a new "random skirmish" scenario with the forces and map you want is actually pretty darn fast, like say 15 minutes or so.

More info coming...


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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:35:23 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: general_solomon
I like the improvements already.  please keep the screen comming. 


Another batch incoming right now!

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:36:41 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 31472
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Status: offline 		Ok, here are a few more sneak peek screenshots with commentary included in the images. Not intended to be comprehensive, just some previews to whet your appetites...






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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:37:12 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		A quick shot of a light mortar team...




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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:39:07 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		As with the original Winterstorm, the two campaigns are true campaigns that follow from one scenario to the next with the same core forces from the start of the Kharkov battles until the end, for each battle group. Experience, medals, special abilities, replacements, auxiliary/reserve forces, etc. What they experienced, the battlefields they fought on, it's all there.






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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:40:22 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		We re-vamped the relative spotting in Winterstorm. It's still relative, but now even more detailed and accurate and we added a new feature that makes it easy to see what each of your units can see.




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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:43:07 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		A quick shot of initial deployment and orders...




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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:43:40 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		An example of the LOS system in action...




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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:44:23 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		Looking at some of the first 40 seconds of action, with the view all moves and targets option turned on.




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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:47:14 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		Infantry was spotted and identified a bit too easily in the original Winterstorm release. We improved this for Kharkov when we overhauled the LOS system. Despite the close range, the Germans still don't have full info on the Soviet defenses in the next line of woods.

For those wondering, Kharkov will be a stand-alone release, so you don't need Winterstorm to play it. HOWEVER, if you already own Winterstorm, you'll get a substantial discount off the price of Kharkov with its scenarios and campaigns and will also get free an updated set of Winterstorm scenarios and campaigns to play with the updated Kharkov engine.




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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 3:48:15 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		To conclude this set, a view of the imposing German spearhead from the Soviet positions...




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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 5:51:50 AM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
I realize that the screens above cite examples of how Kharkov is distinctive from Operation Winters Storm, but could you list the differences for us?
PoE (aka ivanmoe)
One big thing is the relative spotting. Click on a unit and you see only what that unit sees. No hive-mind sighting. WS had that type of sighting but relative targeting. Now sighting and targeting go hand-in-hand.
Another is the scenario editor. You can make a quick scenario in about 5 min.



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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 5:59:44 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Status: offline 		Actually, WS had relative spotting also, but it was not done as well as in Kharkov. It also didn't have the feature where it would only show you the enemy units a selected unit could see, so for many it seemed as if it was only relative targeting. Under the hood, the sighting was always relative, but in Kharkov it's also more accurately resolved and easy to see from the user's perspective.

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 6:08:25 AM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Actually, WS had relative spotting also, but it was not done as well as in Kharkov. It also didn't have the feature where it would only show you the enemy units a selected unit could see, so for many it seemed as if it was only relative targeting. Under the hood, the sighting was always relative, but in Kharkov it's also more accurately resolved and easy to see from the user's perspective.
OK, you are right. With the icons appearing it makes it so much easier.

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 6:58:29 AM   
general_solomon

 

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Status: offline 		Eric,

just a suggestion. please post some of this in other gamers forums.  dont forget gamespot.com, armchair general, wargamer.com.  to name a few. 

I really like the improvements.  What about infantry and building destruction.

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 4:22:00 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: general_solomon

Eric,

just a suggestion. please post some of this in other gamers forums.


Yep, the news really is kind of buried down here. I only discovered it because I was looking around. And if folks aren't log'd in they won't see the illuminated forum icon indicating that there's a new thread posted.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)


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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 4:33:41 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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Status: offline 		At one time there was talk about increasing the size of the maps. Has this taken place with the Kharkov expansion? It matters because the kilometer-square variety in OWS had the tendency to funnel the fighiting of the battles into the corners, whereupon, play tended to get pretty gamey.

PoE


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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 5:39:10 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
At one time there was talk about increasing the size of the maps. Has this taken place with the Kharkov expansion? It matters because the kilometer-square variety in OWS had the tendency to funnel the fighiting of the battles into the corners, whereupon, play tended to get pretty gamey.
PoE
There's more interesting terrain in this expansion it's not as flat as OWS. And most of the weapons of this period don't range a kilomenter.
Two kilometers would be nice unless you have to walk your infantry that distance. It would take infantry about 40 phases to move that far. And there's a lot of infantry in Kharkov as the Russian campaign follows the exploits of a Rifle Division.

< Message edited by Mobius -- 6/2/2007 5:48:09 PM >

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 6:50:48 PM   
Prince of Eckmühl


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Status: offline 		Hi Mobius,

I'm gonna take that response to mean that the maps remain 1km x 1km.

My concern in this regard isn't born out of any desire to create some kind of monster-game with 52 vehicles per side, engaging each other across the expanse of a huge map. Rather, I'd just like to see units deployed along the map edges, with the VP locations situated towards the center or other map edges instead of in the corners. That way play would tend to gravitate away from the corners, again, where things tend to get silly at times.

One way or the other, I'll live. But, increasing the size of the maps strikes me as one of the truly desirable improvements that could be made to the game in the future.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/2/2007 7:33:15 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
I'm gonna take that response to mean that the maps remain 1km x 1km.
OK, yes. Its an expansion afterall. Not a redo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
My concern in this regard isn't born out of any desire to create some kind of monster-game with 52 vehicles per side, engaging each other across the expanse of a huge map. Rather, I'd just like to see units deployed along the map edges, with the VP locations situated towards the center or other map edges instead of in the corners. That way play would tend to gravitate away from the corners, again, where things tend to get silly at times.
52 units per side isn't impossible. You can do that in OWS.
It did seem like a lot of missions in OWS started with your guys in one corner and the flags and the enemy in the other three. The Kharkov missions are more a mixture of all kinds of configurations. You can see where the flags are placed in the mini-maps in the above screen pics.

How come no one is asking about all the top concerns from OWS? Like smoke, second phase reverse and infantry sighting?


< Message edited by Mobius -- 6/2/2007 7:46:02 PM >

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/3/2007 7:34:48 AM   
benpark


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Status: offline 		Looks interesting, though I admit the first iteration didn't seem to "take" with me.

A few questions in the hope that this expansion will add the ingredients that will make me pick this one up for another try:

Which Kharkov battles are covered (1st, 2nd, or 3rd)?

Are waypoints added?

How is infantry combat improved over the first game?

Have there been AI improvements made?

Will the original games maps be folded into the new expansion scenario builder?

Thanks.


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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/3/2007 7:36:11 AM   
benpark


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Status: offline 		Also, could we see a closer look at the dug in infantry? Any trenches?

Thanks!

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RE: A Kharkov Sneak Peek... - 6/3/2007 8:28:10 AM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: benpark
Also, could we see a closer look at the dug in infantry? Any trenches?
Very first screen has trenches on the right. Though the troops themselves are obscured by the blue selection boxes. Usually two squads can get in a trench.

It's the Kharkov of May 1942. I guess that would be #2.


< Message edited by Mobius -- 6/3/2007 8:30:07 AM >

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