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Too easy to beat the computer

 
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Too easy to beat the computer - 5/7/2007 11:48:43 PM   
rcleslie

 

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I am currently playing with build 1.3.171 and there is no question that game play is smoother. As with the previous build, however, my human controlled team always seems to be able to roll over computer controlled competition. The scores are truly lopsided, e.g., 62 - 0, 75 - 0. A current game just ended the first quarter with my team ahead 21 - 0. I enjoy winning, but it gets a bit
"ho-hum". I realize it would be very different v. a human opponent, but I only have time (and inclination)for solitaire games. I should add that with the latest build the computer controlled offense is doing a lot better and no longer trying to run up the gut on every 3rd and long deep in their own territory. The computer controlled defense, however, still seems to adhere to the "sieve" method. My guys get off long TD runs on almost every series. Most of these come on sweeps. Any suggestions on how to "toughen-up" the computer opposition?
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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 5/8/2007 1:58:51 AM   
garysorrell


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Im playing the Indoor rules, but noticed a similar thing. I was winning too easily.

More than anything, I think there are a couple ways to change this.

First is to impose some rules on yourself. I play with the 20 man roster, 8 man football. I could take a 99 speed DB, put him at RB and sweep left and right all day. I force myself to use players at 'proper' positions, which is what the computer does.

If you are playing outdoors 11 man, there are a ton of plays at FBMax. nmleague and hack have some great stuff. mix and match, build playbooks from the plays or use what they provide. give teams unique playbooks. Im currently working on 8 man plays so I can have a variety of playbooks, so I dont always know whats coming.

Outside of the above, im not sure what else to do.

There is a play in the 8 man playbook....3 2 man dog 1 I think is the play. It got me 18 sacks in a game. Options when a play is a 'gamebreaker' is to delete it from the playbook, create plays to stop it, or find out why its an 'uber' play and change it.

FBpro became the game it is because of people tweaking the core game, like the VPNFL ratings and such.

I think the best way to approach this though, is to determine how it is you always win, or the computer always loses, and fix it.

In reference to play calling by the computer, just like in FBPro, Max allows you to set up a playbook and a coach profile. In Max its the groups. They are very powerful and will definately make the computer call a better game. I usually create a few groups to handle 3rd down situations.

Anyway, hope some of my ramblings were useful.

(in reply to rcleslie)
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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 5/8/2007 2:03:48 AM   
garysorrell


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I prefer to play solitaire also. Like playing The Sims, I like to create my football world and watch it go.


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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 5/12/2007 10:04:37 PM   
rcleslie

 

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Garysorrell,

Many thanks for your advice on ways to improve things. I shall try to do some tweaking.

rcleslie

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 5/12/2007 11:59:38 PM   
Marauders

 

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Soon after 1.5 is ready, there should be a few more playbooks to balance things.  Many of the old defenses have not been revamped with the new defensive abilities.

One thing to keep in mind if you are doing 8 man plays is that most 8 man leagues allow only one blitz player and requires a stay at home linebacker in the box.


< Message edited by Marauders -- 8/1/2007 9:12:34 PM >

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 5/13/2007 1:48:28 AM   
garysorrell


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That is true. And I think its that way for a reason. With 8 men there is only so much you can do with the available players. Obviously the OL and QB are busy... any blockers means you have that many less trying to get open and catch the ball.

This is why I mentioned above about imposing rules on yourself. The PDS will allow you to mimic rules about blitzing. Im working on a test playbook that would allow only the WR to be an eligible receiver. Im doing it mainly because we can.

In the meantime, there are 10 11man playbooks at FBMax between just nmleague and hack, also another zip with 450 plays in it. That would make quite a few playbooks.

Lots of fun to be had

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 5/15/2007 2:55:09 PM   
garysorrell


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Im finding that even following my own advice isnt helping much. The indoor game seems to be a back and forth scorefest, and winning the cointoss makes a win almost a given. The team thats behind plays a waiting game for a fumble or int to go their way.

I am actually starting to miss the sliders of Madden that allowed you to give the AI an edge.

I am going to play some 11 man stuff, see how that goes. Maybe its just the nature of 8 man football.

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 5/15/2007 7:42:15 PM   
Marauders

 

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8 Man football generally is a scorefest in the real world, but stops are a big factor.

That stated, the default 8 man defenses need to be updated.

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 7/23/2007 10:52:23 PM   
rcleslie

 

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I am now using build 1.3.176 and making sure that the opposing teams have good play books, especially for defense. I am sticking with 11 man teams and junior-college level of talent. I downloaded all of Hack's and nmleague's books and have tried to make the opposition more flexible. Things are much improved. I am still playing solitaire as that is what I have time for. There are enough playbooks now to create leagues with teams of varying character. I am now working on that with an eye to the Fall season.

Graphics seem a bit strange at times, especially open field tackles without the appearance of actual contact. The appearance of line bucks is quite good. There is, in my imagination at least, a real sense of contact. I do think the graphics are now better than FBPro'98 (the somersault tackles in that game were annoying). For me he distance view is preferred, i.e., F7, so up close and personal doesn't matter much to me, e.g., skin color, nasty looks, etc.

I think this game is quite good and getting better.


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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 7/24/2007 1:19:51 AM   
garysorrell


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Good playbooks make a difference. I agree on the F7 view, especially for scouting opponents. Good view of the field.

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 8/1/2007 8:40:35 PM   
solops

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: garysorrell
I could take a 99 speed DB, put him at RB and sweep left and right all day.


And you wonder why you beat the AI all day long?

Of COURSE you need to use the players at their normal positions. That is what thery were rated for!

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 8/1/2007 9:00:43 PM   
garysorrell


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You read my post (the one from way back in May) wrong.....read it again.

I said I 'COULD' take a 99 speed DB, put him at RB and sweep left and right all day.

I didnt say thats what I 'DO'......I said I 'Could'

However, if you did choose to do that, its just as easy to create defenses to shut the guy down.

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 8/21/2007 11:37:51 PM   
rcleslie

 

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Perhaps it will be possible, in some future build, to be able to switch players the way it happens in real life. For example, LBs and FBs, or DBs and WRs. Maybe today that isn't "real life" and I'm just stuck in the days before two platoons became standard. I do know there are high schools that don't have sufficient turn out for two platoons. I doubt many game players are interested in much beyond the pros, however. It would be fun to set up a scholastic league, some college conferences, and a pro league and watch players develop through the entire system. Anyhow, I suspect my wish would involve an overhaul of the rating system and not be worth the effort.

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 9/15/2007 10:16:36 PM   
Marauders

 

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quote:

Perhaps it will be possible, in some future build, to be able to switch players the way it happens in real life. For example, LBs and FBs, or DBs and WRs. Maybe today that isn't "real life" and I'm just stuck in the days before two platoons became standard. I do know there are high schools that don't have sufficient turn out for two platoons.


The ability to play both ways?  For a future version?

Sounds like a good plan.

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Redesigning plays for 2.0 - 10/7/2007 8:33:36 PM   
BCtheQB


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more varied attacks and indepth profiles will solve it
but you can always victimize someone, thats life

< Message edited by BCtheQB -- 10/7/2007 8:37:12 PM >


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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 9/27/2008 4:08:30 AM   
roscoe

 

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I purchased the game a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to say this first in hopes that others can hopefully see that im not biased about the gameplay.

Since then i have set my own league based on the NFL model as far as amount of teams divisions etc...

I personaly like manageing and coaching. So any way, after doing all the setup i started playing. Right off the bat i noticed that on the offense side of the ball its almost impossible to fail. What i mean is with 15 minute quaters i was getting scores like 60 to 75 and higher for each team. The receivers caught the ball almost 70-80% of the time, no matter what team was playing. I had passing yards of 400-500 or more per HALF! So i thought i must have messed up somehow. So the reasearch came next. I had things correct. So i remade the league using 10minute quaters... Same results except the scores and yards were a tad less because of the lesser amount of time. Again i went back to the drawing board on resarch..the suggestion came up about game plans...so i tried that option and got no real affect to speak of.

I love the game and all the options and files. Thats what drew me to it. BUT the actual gameplay is pretty bad. I mean when i can tell you who will win the game simply because they won the coin toss at the start of the game thats pretty bad.

Im not trying to slam the game or the programmer in any way, its just my feedback on this issue. Is there something coming that will make the game play more realistic?

The last thing i want to mention is about the scheduleing. The NFL does not play a round robin style which is sorta bummed me about the game. I know the old Front Page Sports would do schedules every season that imulated the NFL perfectly and it wasn't the same year after year. Is there something coming about that?

I wanna stick to this game, i feel it has a great future, but these two things really make it a hard sell to stay with it and put in the time needed to set things up for an offensive avalanche every time and a schedule that takes away from the rivalries that comes natural to the game of football.

Thanks for the game and space to give feed back.

roscoe

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 9/27/2008 6:54:10 AM   
Marauders

 

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Roscoe, thank you for posting your observations.

In my opinion, playbooks are a huge factor in this game, and it is an area that has, regrettably, been neglected out of the box.

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 9/27/2008 8:43:44 AM   
Tullius

 

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@ roscoe

Do you coach or play the game ? Many online league have not these high scores and what you report is a little bit surprising as we have here threads like "The defense is too good." and so on. I think it is a playbook problem.

quote:

The last thing i want to mention is about the scheduleing. The NFL does not play a round robin style which is sorta bummed me about the game. I know the old Front Page Sports would do schedules every season that imulated the NFL perfectly and it wasn't the same year after year. Is there something coming about that?


FPS supported only a limited number of league sizes (8,10,12,18,24,30) so it was "easy" to have correct schedules. MF allows any league size but on the downside the schedule making is a nightmare. So you have at the moment only a schedule editor (besides the schedule created by the game) in the game so that you can puzzle your own schedule.

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 9/27/2008 2:22:15 PM   
garysorrell


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To mirror what the guys are saying above.....

Playbooks: Get these   http://www.fbmax.com/uploads/Hacks_Plays_v3_3.zip
I think there are 5 playbooks in there. Fantastic stuff.
There needs to be good situations set up in a playbook to really make the games competetive. Situations are like the old FootballPro profiles. Without situations, the game generally just chooses plays randomly, so you will see QB sneak on 3rd and 20. And in my opinion, defensive situations are most important. If you call a play with 5wides, and the AI has no situations set up, he may call a defense for goal line.

David spoke on scheduling before. With the huge number of league configurations possible, it is nearly impossible for him to make a scheduler to handle that. So the easiest way was the round robin.
There is a schedule editor, and you can also edit the schedule via access or open office. A big pain but it is possible.
Max FB is not, in itself, a vehicle to simulate the NFL or any other real league. But you can do it if you so choose.

(in reply to Tullius)
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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 9/27/2008 2:26:35 PM   
garysorrell


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Also, the constants.dat file can be edited to affect gameplay. Here is a good discussion from dreamteams Metro Football League thread

quote:

While waiting for the patch, I've been toying with the constants file. It's quite interesting what can be done with a few tweaks. Was able to open up the field play a little more and things are coming along quite nicely. Keep in mind I'm using 'hack's' plays. Plus, I added some of 'DTVT's' fun plays to the mix.

Here's what I've been able to do...

- Getting more completions. The super-star caliber QB's are able to thread the needle a little more.
- QB's with fidgeting feet are now breaking out of the pocket more and trying to run for yardage. (Not overdone, though.)
- Backs are able to break a few more tackles and seem to execute more effective cuts and they cut-back a little more often.
- Had to loosen up the defense a bit. Did this by cutting down on pass reaction times. Still getting good interceptions, though. Defenders can still get to quick backs cutting around the end. I've seen plays were I thought the guy was gone only to get tagged by a fast thinking defender.
- Also loosened up the offensive line as sacks were just too hard to come by. Getting nice sacks now. But, still keeping an eye on this.
- Oh, I also sped up the player movement speed and that has made for more realistic play on the field.

- Still getting a bit too many pass knockdowns by linemen, though.
- Still very few interception runbacks for touchdowns.

Also, I had to tweak the ratings a bit. Some of the r-backs were just to good for the field. Was able to standardize a few ratings based on position. Took some time to study the NFL76 file and it was great for ratings suggestions.

The constants file is fun to toy with. However, make sure to make a copy of your original. Also, every time you tweak the constants file make a copy before you do. That way you can go back to a previous version if you don't like the field results.


quote:

I remember a few folks on here asking about which settings we tweak in our constant. So, here are my constants file settings after tweaking, so far. I'm still working with this so I might still change a few things further. The new settings are in red. The number in parenthesis is the original box shipped setting. Please keep in mind that your results may very because these settings depend on your ratings as well. You may have to tweak them to get a match with what you want.

Here ya go...

[CONSTANTS]
//Blocking
BlockingBaseLine=1
BlockingPassBlockTime=1 (3) - Change resulted in more sacks.
BlockingPushBlockTime=1.2
BlockingPassBlockStrength=1.5
BlockingPushBlockStrength=0.80
BlockPancakeThreshold=0.15

//Tackles. The higher the number, the more missed tackles.
TackleThreshold=20 (15) - Change resulted in r-backs breaking more tackles.

//Physics
PhysicsBaseMoveSpeed=8 (6) - Change resulted in players moving faster on the field.
PhysicsBaseAgility=0.15
PhysicsMaxChangeDirTime=0.20 (1) - Change resulted in recievers picking up a few more first downs because they turn quicker and go for the marker. R-backs cut back more.
Physics_MaxPuntStrength=7.8
Physics_MaxFGStrength=15
Physics_MaxKOStrength=17

//Defensive Reaction times.
DefenseBaseM2MCoverageArea=3.5
Defense_PassReactionBaseTime=4 (2) Change loosened up the d-backs a bit to improve completion percentage.
Defense_ReadBaseTime=3

//Field Goal Accuracy, the closer the number is to zero, the more accurate the place kicks
FieldGoal_Accuracy=20 (30) - Obvious.

//QB Read base times.
QBRead_Threshold=0.50 (2.5) - Change helped QB's read the defense better. Helps completion and more consistent ball movement through the air.)
QBScramble_Threshold=0.50 (3) - Change resulted in QB's with nervous feet getting out of pocket and taking off more.

//QB Passing Contants, the higher the number, the less accurate the pass
QBPassingAccuracyStanding=0.63 (1.5) - Change in these all helped to improve completion percentage to create more movement on the field.
QBPassingAccuracyRunning=0.65 (1.8)
QBPassingAccuracyScrambling=0.60 (2)

//QB base 'angle of deviation from optimal' This is modified by the above QB passing constants
//the higher the number, the less accurate the pass
QBPassingAccuracyBase=2 (5) (Once again helped with completion accuarcy and better QB's are able to thread the needle a little more often.)

//There are three pass accuracy systems to choose from
//1 = Angle Adjustment only . This is an accuracy adjustment to the throwing angle
//2 = Distance Adjustment only. This is a accuracy adjustment to the determined throw distance.
//3 = Combined Angle and Distance.
//With all systems, the QBPassing accuracy constants play the same roles. So the rule holds true
//The lower the Accuracyconstants, the more accurate the passing.
QBPassingSystem=3

//These are the fatigue Values. Some actions in the game add fatigue, some substract it.
//The value name tells you if the fatigue is added or subtracted.
//Fatigue is a percentage of 100% added for every one second of the action.
Fatigue_AddRunning=3
Fatigue_AddCatching=4
Fatigue_AddBlockingPush=5
Fatigue_AddBlockingPass=6
Fatigue_AddTackling=10
Fatigue_AddBeingTackled=15
Fatigue_AddLongPasses=5
Fatigue_SubtractResting=-3
Fatigue_SubtractWalking=0
Fatigue_SubtractStanding=-1


< Message edited by garysorrell -- 9/27/2008 2:33:06 PM >

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 9/27/2008 5:43:37 PM   
simmer

 

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Gary this seemed to help with the missed tackles.........Very good as usual!

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 9/27/2008 7:14:10 PM   
garysorrell


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Of course, the constants stuff is dreamteams, im just posting it.

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 2/8/2009 1:36:52 AM   
rcleslie

 

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Just checked this sub-forum and thread to see what had been added since my original question. I'm glad I did - some good stuff! I have also found that play-books do make a very big difference, and I am delighted with Hack's creations. I have also had some fun with the Old School Plays I found on the FBMOD site. Many thanks to the author who ever it is. Tweaking the constants looks very interesting - I wish I had found out about this earlier. Any way, still having fun AND the opposition is clearly more challenging these days.
All I would like to see now is an easy way to create a college or H.S. schedule with a mix of conference and non-conference games plus a place for traditional rivalries at regular season's end. So far I do this by hand and then go the schedule editor for a long bout of tedium.

< Message edited by rcleslie -- 10/26/2009 12:14:04 AM >

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RE: Too easy to beat the computer - 3/21/2009 2:41:29 AM   
hack153

 

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i'm at 50% win/loss coaching against the CPU in my solo league as of today.

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