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RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse

 
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RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/18/2007 2:20:22 AM   
HansBolter


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2 hours later Stavelot:

The Amis are pushing at the edge of the town again. My town defenders are holding tough.
The 4 line units (3 motorised infanterie kompanies and 1 panzer kompanie) holding the main line in
the town are at 72% strength so they have held well without horrendous losses.

The II.1 Motorised Infanterie Abteilung of KG Hansen is arriving to bolster the defense so I no longer have concerns
and expect to be able to kill some Ami units as they press their attack.

The 9.1 Pioner has arrived to help the pak and flak block the Ami tanks so things are looking solid again across this front.

Day 5 0700 hours Stavelot:







Attachment (1)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 91
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/18/2007 2:22:21 AM   
HansBolter


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I hope that satisfies the appetite for a bit.

I need to get home and get some dinner.

I'll add another update Thursday or Friday evening.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 92
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/18/2007 5:47:29 AM   
flintlock

 

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Enjoying following this AAR. Appreciate your effort in keeping it alive.






< Message edited by flintlock -- 7/19/2007 9:03:09 AM >

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 93
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/18/2007 3:46:56 PM   
HansBolter


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From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
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Same time Big picture:

Here is an overall shot showing KG Hansen's components on their way. The HQ and attached
elements are enroute to Werbomont passing through the Bois de Rahier. The III.1 Motorised
Infanterie Abteilung is approaching Trois Ponts with the I.1 just having entered the map, both
on their way behind the HQ to reinforce Werbomont and allow me to start satisfying the exit
requirement. The third abteilung of this regiment is about to reinforce Stavelot.

With the arrival of these reinforcements I SHOULD have started exiting units on day 5. In scenarios with
exit tasks as the main objective, the scenario automatically ends as soon as the exit task is complete no matter
how much time is left in the scenario. I completely forgot this! At this point I was thinking that if I exited enough
units to satisfy the exit task I would be very hard pressed to hold the rest of my objectives for another two days
and would also be too depleted of on map strength to make much more headway on the Destroy Enemy task.
So, I decided to hold off on exiting until very near the end of the scenario on day seven. i figured I could spend
the next two days trashing the Americans and driving to the north exit so I could use both exits on day 7 and get
a really decisive victory.

This is one of the drawbacks of depicting a larger battle with smaller scenarios that are not linked. Historically, if Peiper
had reached the edge of this map by day 5 he would have driven on as fast as possible to get to the Meuse, his real objective.
The next two days worth of spreading out, killing Ami units and generally wreaking havoc across this map are kind of gamey
but I will continue the AAR so you can get a good look at the game features and enjoy the action.

Day 5 0700 Big Picture:





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 7/18/2007 4:10:55 PM >

(in reply to flintlock)
Post #: 94
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/18/2007 9:29:23 PM   
Rebel Yell


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Damned immersive.  Your AAR's are well done.
Too bad there isn't a lot more map to continue driving to the Meuse. 

_____________________________

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 95
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/19/2007 12:11:43 AM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel Yell

Damned immersive.  Your AAR's are well done.
Too bad there isn't a lot more map to continue driving to the Meuse. 


Thank you very much for the compliment. Actually, this is my first AAR ever. I was kind of nervous about doing one and have probably gone a bit overboard describing the action in detail. I see many AARs that are more like an overview synopsis than a detailed account of the action. I have enjoyed writing this as it allows me to re-live the action all over again, but I am finding that it is a time consuming effort. This last installment took about three hours to generate and it is full of typos from trying to type it too fast to keep up with my stream of thought. I usually try to go back and correct the as many of the typos as I can find. I can see from the effort involved in producing something this detailed why many AARs are more streamlined.

There is a Peiper Crosses the Meuse scenario I have playtested as well, which is not linked to this one, but assumes he succeeded in getting across this area of the Ardennes in a manner similar to what I have done. I am currently playtesting a Cracking the Goose Egg scenario which is also turning out to be a great one. BFTB will be full of great scenarios....I just hope everyone is patient enough to wait for it.

(in reply to Rebel Yell)
Post #: 96
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/19/2007 2:10:14 AM   
simovitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
In scenarios with exit tasks as the main objective, the scenario automatically ends as soon as the exit task is complete no matter how much time is left in the scenario.


HB, it doesn't have to - only if the scenario designates the objective as 'auto end' (AE).

Very nice AAR btw. Funny no bridges were blown... where are the damned engineers?

_____________________________

simovitch


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Post #: 97
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/19/2007 2:45:33 AM   
Deathtreader


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From: Vancouver, Canada.
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Hi,

Really appreciate the effort HB......... I've enjoyed this AAR immensely!!

Rob.

_____________________________

So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
- Sir Harry Flashman (1854)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 98
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/19/2007 1:52:19 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: simovitch


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
In scenarios with exit tasks as the main objective, the scenario automatically ends as soon as the exit task is complete no matter how much time is left in the scenario.


HB, it doesn't have to - only if the scenario designates the objective as 'auto end' (AE).

Very nice AAR btw. Funny no bridges were blown... where are the damned engineers?


The main bridges were supposed to be primed at scenario start. That is one of the glitches my playtesting uncovered. There were engineer units at Stavelot and Trois Ponts but I overran them before they got a chance to prime the bridges. Later in the game some engineer units do prime a couple of bridges north of Werbomont which are non-essential and I end up blowing them as I go by them on my way to the northern exit point. In fact I think one is primed already as can be seen in some of the later screenshots.

A revised version with the bridges at Stavelot and Trois Ponts primed will make for a much more variable outcome and some playthroughs that will result in a diversion to the northern route...making things much more challenging for the German side.

I didn't know about the auto-end designation choice in scenario design. Without it in this scenario the Germans could be giving up much of what they have taken if they exit too soon. Exiting as soon as possible should be a criteria in this sceanrio in light of the main objectives of the offensive so I think the auto-end is appropriate in this case. In fact, in an effort to keep moving as quickly as possible to reach the Meuse, the time pressure factor should come into play in the scenario VP considerations. It would be cool if the VPs associated with exiting were variable dependant on the time of exit. The Germans should be rewarded for exiting as soon as possible and penalized for taking too long to do so.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 7/19/2007 2:02:59 PM >

(in reply to simovitch)
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RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/20/2007 12:45:17 AM   
Arjuna


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quote:

It would be cool if the VPs associated with exiting were variable dependant on the time of exit. The Germans should be rewarded for exiting as soon as possible and penalized for taking too long to do so.


Good idea!

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to HansBolter)
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RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 7/20/2007 9:00:27 AM   
Rebel Yell


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From: Houston, TX USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


I just hope everyone is patient enough to wait for it.



I don't think that will be a problem.


_____________________________

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 101
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 8/1/2007 10:30:15 AM   
Whytfyjrd

 

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Absolutely fantastic AAR ... no overkill whatsoever. I haven't touched my HttR since about 2005 +/-, but clearly the game engine has been improved greatly. The map of the Ardennes region is astonishingly good. Your great AAR = a "must buy" for me.  TYVM.

(in reply to Rebel Yell)
Post #: 102
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 8/11/2007 5:43:19 AM   
flintlock

 

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Agreed that it's a welcomed AAR, only, it doesn't make the wait for BftB any easier. :)

(in reply to Whytfyjrd)
Post #: 103
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/20/2007 3:31:36 PM   
HansBolter


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Today we'll pick this thing up again and see if we can finish it off with a couple more installments:

Day 5 0900 hours Eastern Sector:

The II.1 Motorised Infanterie Abteilung from KG Hansen has arrived in Stavelot signifiantly bolstering the defense.

I'm still thin between Stavelot and the N/S road leading to Trois Ponts. I am still being pressured on that road so
I have ordered a pak to return and also detached a stug (the 1.1 kompanie) from Hansen and ordered back to
assist on the road.

A company of light tanks (Stuarts) has found it's way into my perimeter and is harrassing my HQs and Bases at
Trois Ponts. Hopefully the stug kompanie will drive them off as it drives through. There is an antitank unit south
of the position the stug is abandoning but I am not too concerned about that type of unit getting into too much
mischief before I can deal with it.

Over at Chenaux an apparently full strength company of sherman tanks is hammering my flak and engineer.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/20/2007 3:34:51 PM >

(in reply to flintlock)
Post #: 104
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/20/2007 3:57:52 PM   
HansBolter


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Same time Western Sector:

KG Hansen with two battalions is crossing the northern bridge into Chevron.
This force will allow me to expand at this end of the map.
I have started a drive northward up the road to Chession and 9.2 Panzer Grenadier
Kompanie is taking heavy fire from the paratroops hidden in the woods.

Over at Werbomont I am still pretty much hedgehogged on the town awaiting Hansen's arrival.
The 6.1 Panzer Kompanie is under fire from a company of shermans on th enorth road.

You can see a couple of paratroops, C.505 & F.504 that are routing from heavy artillery fire.

A quick word about how I handle artillery. While most of the time I will choose the locations to position
major artillery pieces (divisional and corps level pieces), I will almost never take over fire control.
I leave them On Call for the units on the board to call in fire when they need it. I fond that once you take
fire control and start directing fire missions it starts becoming too much of a distraction from overall commnad
responsibilities and too difficult to keep up with to keep all the tubes firing efficiently.

With smaller artillery pieces/units like regimental and battalion level guns and mortars I usually don't even take over
movement control of them unless I need to use an infantry gun unit to block a road or cover a field of fire from a hill.
I will almost never leave an HQ without units to command. Even if I strip a battalion HQ of all it's companies because
I feel the need to position them myself, I wil always leave the mortars and infantry guns under the control of the HQs.

I find that the AI does a superb job of directing the artillery. very, very rarely do I find a a particularly important attack
going in with insufficient support and only then to I take over fire control for a short period with a few pieces.
I have definitely witnessed how the AI gives priority to fire missions. It pounces on enemy guns, artillery and flak with
a vengence. Counterbattery fire seems to be allocated the highest priority. It also pounces on HQs and bases, especially bases.

I am playing a scenario called Ouren: Stuck in the Teeth right now and have about 8 nebelewerfer battalions. An enemy howitzer
battalion became spotted and all 8 werfers hammered it for 20 minutes straight. It was awesome to watch (not to mention
that the sound effect for the werfers is way cool) and the unit surrendered soon there after.

Day 5 0900 hours:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/20/2007 4:04:46 PM >

(in reply to HansBolter)
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RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/20/2007 4:10:12 PM   
HansBolter


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Day 5 1101 hours Eastern Sector:

The Americans are making another push down the hill into the Stavelot with an assault gun platoon
in the van giving the 2.2 Motorised Infanterie Kompanie a hard time. The 3.2 Motorised Kompanie is
routing from heavy fire.

Now that I moved the pak and stug to Biester on the road to Trois Ponts I am way, way too thin in between
there and Stavelot. I probably have concentrated more in the town than necessary and will pay for it in the
way of infiltrators soon to come. The 14.2 Flak Kompanie, 4.9 Falschirmjaeger Kompanie and the 15.2 Pionier
Kompanie are attempting to cover three kilometers of frontage.

Day 5 1101 hours:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/20/2007 4:13:40 PM >

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 106
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/20/2007 4:20:21 PM   
HansBolter


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Same time Central Sector:

Given the pressure I was getting from the enemy tanks at Chenaux and the fact that infiltrating
units had started getting inside my perimeter I pulled back from Chenaux yet again to the edge
of the woods. The most "on again off again" fight on the map!

The company of Stuarts that was harassing my HQs and base at Trois Ponts got a hot reception
from the stug as it went by as I had hoped and has alos been pummeled by artillery and is now
reeling away from the town.

The enemy antitank unit in the south has just sat in position as a blocking unit as I suspected it would.

Day 5 1101 hours:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/20/2007 5:36:01 PM >

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 107
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/20/2007 4:40:22 PM   
HansBolter


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Same time Western Sector:

KG Hansen HQ and regimental units have taken over the occupation of Chevron as the dispersed companies
of the schutze abteilung (III.2) have driven up the northwest road and are covering the western road out of Chevron.

Several American units that had been trapped in the woods next to Chevron are now seeking a way out and have become spotted.
I managed to trap Ruben Tucker and his 504th PIR HQ in those woods along with Gavin and the divisional HQ (surrenderd a while back).

The two battalions Hansen brought to the bridgehead (III.1 and I.1) are midawy bewteen Chevron and Werbomont so I have started
attacking out of Werbomont again. The 6.1 panzer Kompanie drove up to the small town north of Werbomont pushing the shermans it
encountered to the east (the "possible" unit outline on the edge of the woods).

The II.2 Motorised Infanterie Kompanie with the 2.1 Panzer Kompanie attached (the highlighted unit) is attacking southward from Werbomont
into the mass of paratroops who retreated west out of the Bois de Grimbiemont.

I noticed something intersting in the last few screenshots. These are fairly old saved games I am reloading for these shots and somehow I am
getting new unit icons for the heavy tanks now. They no longer have the rounded bubble turret of the medium tanks but have larger squared turrets
that make them resemble a Jagdtiger. I'm not sure how that happened as the only new files I have added lately were some map and map cache files
that were corrupted. I don't think I have gotten any new artwork files. Anyway, for those who use the pictographic icons (I am bored with NATO
symbology after 34 years of wargaming) it makes it easier to identify the heavy tanks quickly.

Day 5 1101 hours:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/20/2007 4:57:02 PM >

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 108
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/20/2007 5:01:27 PM   
HansBolter


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Day 5 1404 hours Eastern Sector:

Finding the going in the outskirts of Stavelot too tough the Amis fell back again and are now pummeling the town
with heavy artillery fire (evidenced by all the units in the town with yellow backgrounds on the strength number).

Concerned over the thin line between Stavelot and Biester I pulled three units out of Biester, sending them to Renardmont.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/20/2007 5:38:50 PM >

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Post #: 109
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/20/2007 5:05:59 PM   
HansBolter


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Same time Central Sector:

Mostly quiet here. The antitank unit in the south has become unspotted as well as the Stuart
tanks that can be seen as reported possible unit loctions.

Since I fell back from Chenaux the Amis are now moving down from the town to feel out my defenses
on the perimeter of the woods.

Day 5 1404 hours:






Attachment (1)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 110
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/20/2007 5:18:28 PM   
HansBolter


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Same time Western Sector:

KG Hansen HQ and one of it's two battalions have arrived on the outskirts of Werbomont where their assembly area is
being shelled.

I've highlighted 4 units to illustrate how I am now expanding my perimeter as I work on the Destroy Enemy task.

The two units of the schutze abteilung that were driving up the road to Chesion have split up with one continuing on
and now turning back southwest to deal with the enemy units along the west bank of the river while the other deals
with the units in the woods west of the road.

KG Knittle (the recon battalion) is breaking out to the north to overrun an artillery battalion. The artillery battalion it is
bypassing will be dealt with by the 6.1 Panzer Kompanie.

Hansen's other battalion. the I.1 Motorised Infanterie Abteilung is now joining in the drive to the south where there is
the greatest concentration of enemy units. I have pretty much been ignoring the units in the swamp just south of the
exit point but will have to deal with them eventually.

The 504th PIR HQ and other trapped units have been driven back into the woods.

Day 5 1404 hours:






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/20/2007 5:23:19 PM >

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Post #: 111
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/20/2007 9:44:15 PM   
Nick Schieben

 

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Thanks Hans! This is definitely on my list :)

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Post #: 112
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/22/2007 9:46:53 PM   
Rebel Yell


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More great stuff.
Most interesting to read about the arty working so well autonomously.  I love that.  As a commander at that level, you would hate to have to be directing fire missions constantly.

_____________________________

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.

(in reply to Nick Schieben)
Post #: 113
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/23/2007 3:16:08 PM   
HansBolter


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3 hours later Eastern Sector:

At dusk the bulk of the American forces around Stavelot are arrayed along the heights overlooking the
town and are probing my defenses in the gap between the town and the woods and along the woods west
of the town.

The company of Stuarts that got a rough time at Trois Ponts have wandered to a point just southg of the flak
in the town northwest of Trois Ponts. They aren't much of a threat so I am not getting excited about doing
much of anything about them.

Things are quiet here otherwise.

Day 5 1700 hours:





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 10/23/2007 3:19:08 PM >

(in reply to Rebel Yell)
Post #: 114
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/23/2007 3:33:49 PM   
HansBolter


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Same time Western Sector:

In the Chevron area the schutze abteilug III.2, commanded by Jupp Diefenthal has it's HQ occupying the town
while it's three companies have been dertached for independent duty. The 11.2 Panxer Grenadier Kompanie has
been getting a rest for some time now guarding the eastern road out of Chevron. The 9.2 kompanie is following up on it's
effort to deal with the paratroopers in the woods west of the northern road out of Chevron and has found an
apparent battalion HQ there. The 10.2 kompanie driving southward down the road along the west side of the river
flushing out more paratroopers along the way.

In the north along the edge of the map, KG Knittle is well on it's way to the artillery it has been assigned to overrun.
I've also ordered one of Hansen's battalions, the III.1 Motorised Infanterie Abteilung to join Knittle in the drive to the north
overrunning a couple of enemy units on the edge of the map along the way. The 6.1 Panzer Kompanie is making short work
of the C.505 company while the artillery it was tasked with overrunning has retreated to the north and has become part of the
assignment for the III.1 battalion.

In the middle KG Hansen HQ has taken up residence in Werbomont while miscellaneous detached units clear the enemy in the
swamp away from the esit point.

Further south two reduced battalions of motorised infantry continue attacking the paratroopers.

You can see a seven combat factor nebelwerfer in the middle of the bridgehead. Most exit tasks require a combined arms force which
includes artillery. It is important to pay attention to this and not get caught with your artillery too far behind the lines to make it to the exit
point before time runs out.

Day 5 1700 hours:





Attachment (1)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 115
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/23/2007 8:02:05 PM   
HansBolter


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2 hours later Eastern Sector:

With things quiet on this sector except for the obligatory probing of the Stavelot defense I have highlighted the entire
force in this sector to give an idea of strength. You can also get an idea of where my artillery pirces have been firing.

Losses overall haven't been too bad.

The only unit with any movement orders is the flak west of Trois Ponts. It had been occupying the town on the road/path
between Trois Ponts and Chenaux. It moved south looking for the company of Stuarts that were in that vicinity in the last
screenshot. No enemy units were uncovered. Who knows where those Stuarts got to. I have ordered the flak back north to
supplement the pak platoon guarding the entrance to the woods.

Day 5 1900 hours:





Attachment (1)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 116
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/23/2007 8:09:27 PM   
HansBolter


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same time Western Sector:

I've also highlighted this entire force to give an idea of strength, although I forgot to highlight the personnel strength bar to
get a flyout indicating the percentage. The western force has done most of the attacking and is a little more understrength
than the eastern force, but nothing unreasonable.

Most of the artillery is firing on the concentration of enemy units along the river that were identified by mech infantry company
that went through there. Note that both bridges that were primed in that vicinity have been blown.

Note the size of the footprint of the base unit in the woods. Bases are huge. They take up a large chunk of real estate.

My north and south attack groups are continuing to prosecute their orders and grind the American paratroopers down.

Day 5 1900 hours:







Attachment (1)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 117
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/24/2007 1:57:51 PM   
HansBolter


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5 hours later Eastern Sector:

This side of the map has been very, very quiet for some time now.
The Amis are probing with armor at Stavelot again, but that is about it.

Day 6 0000 hours:






Attachment (1)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 118
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 10/24/2007 2:07:06 PM   
HansBolter


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Same time Western Sector:

Om my, look what showed up in woods by KG Peiper's base. I have been pretty much
ignoring the southern flank of my breakthrough as the bulk of Allied reinforcements can
be expected to arrive from the north. This doesn't mean that the ocassional unit won't show
up in the south. Apparently some fo the troops I pushed to the south have filtered back toward
the east and are now coming up into my flank. With only an antitank platoon to sceeen it, my
base will likely have to displace.

At the map edge, two partial infantry battalions and the reduced tiger battalion continue hammering
the few paratroopers still in the vicinity.

There is still one pesky infantry company in the swamp near the exit that I haven't yet killed off.

In the north KG Knittle has rounded the bend in the road as the 6.1 Panzer Kompanie has stormed past it.
Hansen's battalion, the III.1 is dealing with a mech infantry company on it's way to join up with Knittle.

Things are quiet northwest of Chevron right now.

Day 6 0000 hours:






Attachment (1)

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 119
RE: BFTB AAR: Race for the Meuse - 11/2/2007 10:34:12 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 3458
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel Yell

More great stuff.
Most interesting to read about the arty working so well autonomously.  I love that.  As a commander at that level, you would hate to have to be directing fire missions constantly.



Yes, it works wonderfully well and you could easily get that feeling of "hectic clickfest" from this continuous play game engine if you had to try to direct every fire mission, or if you unwitting try to take control of them all because you think you need to. I would hate to have a newcomer end up with that "clickfest" impression because he isn't confident enough in the AI to allow it to have that level of control.

This is a one division size scenario. There are quite a few larger ones in BFTB. I am now playtesting a Race for Bastogne scenario with a full corps of 34,000+ troops under command(2nd Panzer, Panzer Lehr and the 26th Infantry Division). Imagine trying to control every fire mission for a force that size!

The only times I have seen attacks going in with insufficient atrillery support is when there are so many other high priority targets spotted (enemy artillery, HQs and bases) that the guns are all concentrating on them. This is actually a pretty nice handicap to have to deal with as the guns who aren't supporting your critical attack are still making gains for you by suppressing so many high priority targets. In those few instances I take control of a few guns to ensure the attack get the necessary support and then return them to AI control shortly thereafter.

I'll get another installment going on this AAR this weekend.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 11/2/2007 10:36:58 PM >

(in reply to Rebel Yell)
Post #: 120
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