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RE: AI for MWiF - China

 
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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 1/29/2013 2:00:07 PM   
Extraneous

 

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I said I did not contest any of the above.

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Post #: 181
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 1/29/2013 10:42:25 PM   
paulderynck


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You can lend to as many active major powers on your side as your little heart desires.

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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 1/29/2013 10:55:26 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Count the CP's and tankers in the convoy line.

If there are enough to ships to give more than 1 oil/resource to China then allocate enough ships to cover the situation with your Search & seizure.

If you do a Search and Seizure, you stop every lent thing going through that sea zone to powers you are at war with, no matter its quantity. (see FAQ Q13.3-26).

Often there can be more than one route for what is shipped. The lender has to announce specifically the quantities going (but not their source hexes) in the lending phase, and then prior to production, specifically what is going from where and on what route. After that, the opposing side can choose to do search and seizure where eligible.

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Post #: 183
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 1/29/2013 11:49:36 PM   
Extraneous

 

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You get NO links, sources, or references for any of this.



composer99: My source of information is the WiFFE-RAW-7.0 or when seriously interested in a rule AUSTRALIAN DESIGN GROUP WiF FE Rule Clarification Summary.

For me to go to a group outside these forums would be counter productive. It may or may not be how the game is being written.

As this is a forum (a public meeting place for open discussion) this is where we can discuss how to play the game.

Almost everyone who has been exposed to this game knows there is a steep learning curve involved.

What is a person new to WiF's only source of information? The WiFFE-RAW-7.0.

I posted that I was not contesting ANY of the comments or clarifications but I stated why I made my original post the way I did.



You have taken my post and attacked it even when I said I did not contest the interpretation of it.

And it turns out that the attack was even more meaningless by the rule clarification at AUSTRALIAN DESIGN GROUP WiF FE Rule Clarification Summary

Were you that bored?


Or are you saying that you must have a background in the game or be a member of a WiF information group (chosen by you) in order to post a comment in these forums?



Why have I always had to post my links, sources, and references when the rest of you do not even bother?

To respond civilly to your post I have waited a full day before drafting this.



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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 1/30/2013 2:57:27 AM   
brian brian

 

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I truly think you should just start playing the game, seriously. A lot of your questions can answer themselves once counters are on the map....go with intuition on how you think things should probably work, and you will usually be right. If you try to read the WiF rules the way Bill Clinton answered questions at a deposition - the immortal quote "it depends on what your definition of is, is" - you will never escape the rabbit hole. And few gamers want to play against people who read rules like that. We play the game all the time, and we know what the definition of "is", is, because we play it and thus don't need to cite a source for what rule # subsection # defines "is". Constantly pinging the rules with the idea of "but what if the word 'is' means 'possibly'?" won't get you anywhere. Just play it. It is actually a lot easier to learn the rules that way. If you have played other hex-based wargames, the learning curve is not that steep. You move units, calculate odds, and attack. There's airplanes and ships too. Dive in.

Even so, after >20 years with the game, I still learn things about the rules, but those are usually very esoteric situations. I definitely can play the Barbarossa scenario backwards and forwards without rules questions, and I think anyone can if they try.

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Post #: 185
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 1/30/2013 3:01:30 AM   
composer99


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Response moved to a new thread as it is off topic for this one.

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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 1/30/2013 1:47:12 PM   
Extraneous

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I truly think you should just start playing the game, seriously. A lot of your questions can answer themselves once counters are on the map....

1) Go with intuition on how you think things should probably work, and you will usually be right.

2) If you try to read the WiF rules the way Bill Clinton answered questions at a deposition - the immortal quote "it depends on what your definition of is, is" - you will never escape the rabbit hole.

3) And few gamers want to play against people who read rules like that. We play the game all the time, and we know what the definition of "is", is, because we play it and thus don't need to cite a source for what rule # subsection # defines "is".

4) Constantly pinging the rules with the idea of "but what if the word 'is' means 'possibly'?" won't get you anywhere. Just play it. It is actually a lot easier to learn the rules that way.

5) If you have played other hex-based war games, the learning curve is not that steep. You move units, calculate odds, and attack. There's airplanes and ships too. Dive in.

6) Even so, after >20 years with the game, I still learn things about the rules, but those are usually very esoteric situations. I definitely can play the Barbarossa scenario backwards and forwards without rules questions, and I think anyone can if they try.




1) Oh so now I can skip the rules and just go with the flow?

2) You should use the honorific President Bill Clinton (even if you don't like him he is an ex-president). If you haven't noticed on several occasions the way the rules have been interpreted have been differently.

Need I mention where a couple of you found that you had been playing the game wrong for 20 years? Of course I do, you conveniently have forgotten that one.

3) Wrong, gamers don't like it when they find out they are misinterpreting the rules and are corrected. I know I don't.

4) Did you miss the part where I gave the definition of a forum?

5) If I have "played other hex-based war games"? Why would anyone want information on an "I go - You go" strategic World War 2 game that hasn't played a hex based war game?

6) I don't want to get you out of your "Barbarossa" comfort zone but that's a very basic scenario.


So lets summarize your post:

Don't bore you with the rules we'll just make them up as we play the game.
Don't correct any errors you make it will irritate you.
I have to post links and references because my views differ from yours.
Your group of people plays the game the way you have come to believe is right. So everyone else is wrong.
Barbarossa" is the only scenario anyone needs to play.
WOW, the game has hexes and cool counters.


I know you haven't noticed but through my posts I have been step by step leading you through the game.

The USA, CW options, Vichy France, giving resources and lease to China.



For those of you who thing I haven't been using my post to show how to play the game.

China ~ for Lend lease and giving resources

CW ~ for convoy lines and surprise port attacks

France ~ for Vichy France, Free France, and Naval moves

USA ~ for scrapping units and production




< Message edited by Extraneous -- 1/30/2013 4:38:07 PM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 1/30/2013 5:06:12 PM   
composer99


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IMO it's time for this discussion to end on this thread. If it's not about the China AI it doesn't belong here.

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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/22/2013 9:30:45 PM   
michaelbaldur


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I have been working on a strategic for china.

simply retreat back, then when Japan have taken enough factories (as I remember they only need to take 2 more), then surrender (after the first turn)

1. you make japan a neutral. (always fun to mess up other peoples plans).

2. you give Usa alot of chits. (something like 5-7 chits doing the first turn)

3. you give usa one more chit each turn.

4: japan have to DOW somebody to become active again. (more chits)

draw backs.

1. china is hard to liberate

2. japan gets alot of free units to use.

< Message edited by michaelbaldur -- 7/22/2013 9:36:46 PM >


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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/22/2013 11:22:12 PM   
peskpesk


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Letting China fall will make it much harder to bring down Japan due to massive JP buildup- even if US gets in the war earlier. The increased US production may make a difference though, however, to gain a large extra production, China needs to fall early to benefit from the extra chits to gear up and DoW. But the overall overall 'timeline' in the Pacific will not be affected that much, entry early but more effort needed to achieve goal.

Also the fall of China will free the Japanese forces early, quickly putting pressure on the CW, might even be before CW is ready (especially if the US is gaining lots of chits anyway) and probably force Japan to declare war on the USSR to become an active major power - that could tip the balance in axis favor for a successful Barbarossa.

That said messing up plans, becoming neutral etc. can throw anybody of so, the strategy and counter strategy has to be in the AIO arsenal.


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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 12:43:43 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Letting China fall will make it much harder to bring down Japan due to massive JP buildup- even if US gets in the war earlier. The increased US production may make a difference though, however, to gain a large extra production, China needs to fall early to benefit from the extra chits to gear up and DoW. But the overall overall 'timeline' in the Pacific will not be affected that much, entry early but more effort needed to achieve goal.

Also the fall of China will free the Japanese forces early, quickly putting pressure on the CW, might even be before CW is ready (especially if the US is gaining lots of chits anyway) and probably force Japan to declare war on the USSR to become an active major power - that could tip the balance in axis favor for a successful Barbarossa.

That said messing up plans, becoming neutral etc. can throw anybody of so, the strategy and counter strategy has to be in the AIO arsenal.


Maybe.

1 - Giving Japan all of China, including all the resources (6) and red factories (2) is a lot to give away for nothing.

2 - That Japan then has all of its land units available for invasions is quite daunting too. Usually Japan has some of its best units committed in China and unavailable for invasion in the Pacific.

3 - The build strategy for Japan would change dramatically, with far fewer garrison and militia units needed to soak up losses and fill out the frontline in China. I'd be building more sea lift and air units for combat with the US. If China falls early enough, I'd also build more carriers and subs.

4 - Besides the DOW on USSR - which would be devastating when accompanied by an early DOW by Germany on the USSR - there is also the possibility of a DOW on the Commonwealth. Singapore and India could be ripe for the picking, what with the Commonwealth concerned with Italy in the Med and a possible Sea Lion by Germany. The Commonwealth has a lot of important land hexes to hold and extensive convoy pipelines vulnerable to attack.

I could see how someone playing the US/China might think this is a 'neat' idea since playing China is mostly defensive early in the war, and getting the US in early would give the player something to do (or at least look forward to). But the Commonwealth and USSR players would want the US player's head on a pike.



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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 1:52:12 AM   
Taxman66


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That is a hugely high risk strategy. All those free land units start looking at India & Australia or hell possibly even Persia/Africa.

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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 8:58:02 AM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

I have been working on a strategic for china.

simply retreat back, then when Japan have taken enough factories (as I remember they only need to take 2 more), then surrender (after the first turn)

1. you make japan a neutral. (always fun to mess up other peoples plans).

2. you give Usa alot of chits. (something like 5-7 chits doing the first turn)

3. you give usa one more chit each turn.

4: japan have to DOW somebody to become active again. (more chits)

draw backs.

1. china is hard to liberate

2. japan gets alot of free units to use.

US do not get as many entry chits as you expect.

US entry is halved when China surrenders and there are no extra chit per turn after China has surrendered.

Therefore I think that China should only surrender if a few chits have an immediate effect on US entry into the war and the position in China is hopeless.

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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 10:22:45 AM   
peskpesk


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Here is a rough example of how the Strategic plan for China could be(the surrender is not so likely).

Strategic plan for China

Strategic Plan #1 Prevent Japanese advancement on both nationalist and communist front
The Goal is to keep the Japanese from advancing deeper into China for as long as possible.

Strategic Sub Plans
A. Defend Japan
B. Limited offensives

Strategic Plan #2 Prevent Conquest of communist
The Goal is to keep the Japan from taking the last communist cites/factories for as long as possible.

Strategic Sub Plans
A. Defend Langchow
B. Limited offensives

Strategic Plan #3 Prevent Conquest of nationalist
The Goal is to keep the Japan from taking the last nationalist cites/factories for as long as possible.

Strategic Sub Plans
A. Defend Chungking/Chengtu
B. Limited offensives

Strategic Plan #4 On the Offensive
The Goal is go on the offensive against Japan

Strategic Sub Plans
A. Japanese controlled china offensive
B. French-Indo China offensive
C. Manchuria/Korea offensive
D. Japan offensive

Strategic Plan #5 Surrender China
The Goal is to simply surrender when that phase of the game arrives.


Strategic plan #1 stays in effect until:
(1) China North Central(Sian) falls, in which case plan #2 goes into effect.
(2) China South West(Chihkiang,Changsha,Kweilin,Hengyang) or China South Central(Kunming,Nanning,Kweiyang) falls, in which case plan #3 goes into effect.
(3) The threat to the below areas from Japan is extinguished, in which case plan #4 goes into effect.
--a. China North Central(Sian,Yenan)
--b. China South West(Kunming,Nanning,Kweiyang)
--c. China South Central(Chihkiang,Changsha,Kweilin,Hengyang)
(4) The USA in not at war with Japan and the US is not close to declaring war and the USSR has a peace with Japan/No Barbarossa is likely and at least 2 out of the below:
--a. The number Chinese nationalist units is less than 6
--b. The number Chinese communist units is less than 3
--c. Chinas production has been reduced to less than 2 for more than 1 turn in a row.
in which case plan #5 goes into effect.

Strategic plan #2 stays in effect until
(1) No Communist units remain in China North East(Langchow) and China North
Central(Sian), at which time #1 goes into effect.
(2) Communist china is conquered, at which time #1 goes into effect.
(3) China South West(Chihkiang,Changsha,Kweilin,Hengyang) or China South Central(Kunming,Nanning,Kweiyang) falls, in which case plan #3 goes into effect.
(4) China North Central(Sian) is retaken, in which case plan #1 goes into effect.

Strategic plan #3 stays in effect until
(1) No nationalist units remain in China Sezchwan(Chungking,Chengtu), China South West(Chihkiang,Changsha,Kweilin,Hengyang), China South Central(Chihkiang,Changsha,Kweilin,Hengyang) in which case plan #1 goes into effect
(2) China Sezchwan(Chungking,Chengtu) falls, at which time #1 goes into effect.
(3) Nationalist china is conquered, at which time #1 goes into effect.
(4) China is conquered
(5) China South West(Chihkiang,Changsha,Kweilin,Hengyang), China South Central(Chihkiang,Changsha,Kweilin,Hengyang are retaken.

Strategic plan #4stays in effect until
(1) There is a threat to China North Central(Sian) or China South West(Chihkiang,Changsha,Kweilin,Hengyang) or China South Central(Chihkiang,Changsha,Kweilin,Hengyang) from Japan, in which case plan #1 goes into effect,

Strategic plan #5stays in effect until
(1) China is liberated, at which time #1 goes into effect



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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 2:26:26 PM   
Centuur


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It's not a good idea to surrender China in the first turn. The US only gets 3 or 4 extra chits and doesn't get an extra draw each turn. That is simply not large enough a gain for the allies. Of course, Japan needs to garrison China, so it needs to build TERR and GAR too, however he doesn't lose any more units in China and will be able to attack the USSR without having to worry about China. That can be pretty devastating for the allies.
I wouldn't put this option in the AI.
An early Chinese surrender always automatically forces the Japanese to DoW the USSR...


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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 4:22:59 PM   
michaelbaldur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

It's not a good idea to surrender China in the first turn. The US only gets 3 or 4 extra chits and doesn't get an extra draw each turn. That is simply not large enough a gain for the allies. Of course, Japan needs to garrison China, so it needs to build TERR and GAR too, however he doesn't lose any more units in China and will be able to attack the USSR without having to worry about China. That can be pretty devastating for the allies.
I wouldn't put this option in the AI.
An early Chinese surrender always automatically forces the Japanese to DoW the USSR...



offcause they get the extra chit each turn

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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 7:24:33 PM   
Cad908

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

It's not a good idea to surrender China in the first turn. The US only gets 3 or 4 extra chits and doesn't get an extra draw each turn. That is simply not large enough a gain for the allies. Of course, Japan needs to garrison China, so it needs to build TERR and GAR too, however he doesn't lose any more units in China and will be able to attack the USSR without having to worry about China. That can be pretty devastating for the allies.
I wouldn't put this option in the AI.
An early Chinese surrender always automatically forces the Japanese to DoW the USSR...



offcause they get the extra chit each turn

Michael,

13.3.3 US Entry Actions

4. China conquered (Ja) -Note 3 Die 35

Note 3 = The USA also picks 1 extra chit a turn for each action (except conquests by surrender). It must go into the marked entry pool.


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Post #: 197
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 9:47:39 PM   
michaelbaldur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cad908


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

It's not a good idea to surrender China in the first turn. The US only gets 3 or 4 extra chits and doesn't get an extra draw each turn. That is simply not large enough a gain for the allies. Of course, Japan needs to garrison China, so it needs to build TERR and GAR too, however he doesn't lose any more units in China and will be able to attack the USSR without having to worry about China. That can be pretty devastating for the allies.
I wouldn't put this option in the AI.
An early Chinese surrender always automatically forces the Japanese to DoW the USSR...



offcause they get the extra chit each turn

Michael,

13.3.3 US Entry Actions

4. China conquered (Ja) -Note 3 Die 35

Note 3 = The USA also picks 1 extra chit a turn for each action (except conquests by surrender). It must go into the marked entry pool.




you are correct

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Post #: 198
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 9:55:22 PM   
michaelbaldur


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but the middle strategic. give up some less impotent cities. to give US chits.

combined with a rear defence in the mountains.

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I work hard, not smart.

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Post #: 199
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/23/2013 10:16:25 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


but the middle strategic. give up some less impotent cities.

warspite1

Wow..that's one way of killing off the Chinese...




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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/24/2013 7:34:14 PM   
Centuur


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


but the middle strategic. give up some less impotent cities. to give US chits.

combined with a rear defence in the mountains.

I think this might be a good thing to consider, since it gives the Chinese double defense in factors. However, I don't think I would like to give the Japanese the railway from Canton to the north without a fight...

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RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/27/2013 8:59:36 AM   
Extraneous

 

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No coments but it was an interesting read.

Information on China

quote:

2.5 Control
Entities
There are 2 geographical entities in the game ~ home countries and territories. Home countries have capital cities, territories do not.

A home country consists of every hex that a MAR could reach from the capital of that home country without crossing a red political boundary or entering a hex containing the name of another major power (e.g. all of mainland China including Japanese occupied China is part of the Chinese home nation, but Hainan and Formosa are not).


quote:

9. Declaring war
9.2 How to declare war
China may not declare war.

9.4 US entry
Attempting to declare war
Announce your attempt to declare war on a major power. Then, on the “It’s War” table, cross-index your entry level against that major power with your tension level against it to find the war number. Now, roll a die:
• If it is less than or equal to the war number, your declaration has succeeded. Turn all your entry and tension markers over so your opponent can verify your result. If you succeed, roll for the declaration of war entry option (see 13.3.2).
• If it exceeds the war number, your attempt to declare war fails.

You don’t have to turn any markers over but you have to return both 1 entry marker and 1 tension marker to the common marker pool. Choose them randomly from the pools of the major power you attempted to declare war on. If you have no marker in the entry or tension pool, you may never attempt to declare war on this major power for the rest of the game.

There are modifications to the die roll. All modifiers are cumulative:
When attempting to declare war on Germany and/or Italy;
-2 if the UK has been conquered.

When attempting to declare war on Japan.
-2 if China has been conquered.
-1 if China hasn’t been conquered but a Japanese unit is in China.
+2 if the US fleet is not in Pearl Harbor (see 13.3.2, entry option 26).

When attempting to declare war on any Axis major power;
+3 if you have not yet chosen US entry option 34 - Pass War Appropriations Bill (see 13.3.2).
-1 if the USA is at war with any major power.


quote:

9.5 Neutrality pacts
Other major powers
Major powers from opposing sides can agree to enter into a neutrality pact during any peace step provided they are not at war with each other.

Both the Nationalist and Communist Chinese must agree before China can enter into a neutrality pact. Major powers automatically enter into a neutrality pact when they choose to come to peace (see 13.7.3).


quote:

9.6 Calling out the reserves
In every scenario some major powers will already have called out their reserves at the start. The scenario information will tell you which ones have. Japan and China have called out their reserves in every World in Flames scenario - their units’ reserve status is for Days of Decision campaigns.


quote:

13.1 Partisans (option 46)
Controlling partisans
Partisans in ‘green’ countries are controlled by the major power that controlled their country before it was conquered (or still control it if it isn’t yet conquered). Partisans in China are always communist Chinese units. French partisans are controlled by the Free French unless it is completely conquered, after which they are controlled by the Soviets.


quote:

Option 49: (Hitler’s war) Replace notes (b), (d) and (e) of the Production Multiples Table with:
(b) +0.25 to China each turn;
(d) +0.25 to the USSR while Germany and the USSR are at war with each other.

Using this option, major powers no longer receive a bonus for an in supply enemy unit in their home country, and the USSR no longer receives any bonuses based on the cities they control.


quote:

13.6.4 Lend lease
Foreign aircraft
China may not place US sourced aircraft in its force pools until US entry option 1 (build Chinese aircraft) has been picked.


quote:

13.7.3 Mutual peace
Two major powers at war can agree to come to peace on any terms mutually acceptable (except for transferring units). Both the nationalist and communist Chinese must agree before China can come to peace. A neutrality pact is then in place between the parties.

Players can also agree to reach a peace between a major power and a minor country. In that case, they return to their pre-war borders (exception: see Soviet border rectification 19.6).

13.7.5 Liberation
When China is liberated, the liberator may choose to revert each Chinese hex to the Communist or the Nationalist Chinese (some to one and some to the other).


quote:

20. Chinese communists
The Soviet player always controls the Chinese communist units and their activities count against Soviet activity limits. Partisans in China are always Chinese communist units.

However, nationalist and communist Chinese units go into the same force pools. They are built by the nationalist player but he or she has no choice whether to produce nationalist or communist units.

Apart from the above (and the placement of reinforcements ~ see 4.2), Communist and Nationalist Chinese count as one major power for all purposes (e.g. they can’t be conquered separately, declaring war on them is only one US entry effect, etc.).


quote:

21. Stilwell
Stilwell is a nationalist Chinese HQ. However, he is also treated as a US HQ for some purposes. His HQ symbol is filled in with ‘US green’ to mark this.

Stilwell counts as a US HQ for foreign troop commitment purposes (see 18.2), so his presence in China allows the US player to send up to 2 US units to China.

He also counts as a secondary supply source for US units (and units that can co-operate with US units). These units are in supply through Stilwell if he can trace a railway supply path back to a nationalist Chinese supply source.


quote:

AfA option 48: Chinese controlled oil resources may reorganize face-down US units in China if they can trace a supply path (of unlimited length) back to Stilwell.


quote:

22.4.15 Chinese Warlords (PoliF option 71)
The Chinese warlord units represent forces loyal to one particular Warlord in China rather than the central Government. Each warlord unit has a city stated on the front of the counter. This is the warlord’s home city.

All Warlord units set up in every game on their home city and are controlled by the major power controlling the city. Warlord units whose home city is controlled by the communist player are considered
Communist units. If their city is Nationalist controlled, they are Nationalist units.

Warlord units are treated like any other unit for all purposes except that no unit may move nor advance after combat more than 2 hexes from its home city. They can attack from that 2nd hex to a hex where they could not move to, but could not advance after combat.

If forced to retreat from combat, the attacker must attempt to retreat them in such a way that they remain within 2 hexes of their city. However, if this is not possible, the unit is destroyed instead.

Destroyed warlord units return to the owner’s force like any other unit and may be rebuilt as usual. When they arrive as reinforcements, warlord units arrive in their home city.

When a warlord’s home city is conquered (or captured by the other Chinese faction), the warlord unit is immediately removed from the game, even before other combats are resolved (and ones that would have included their units).

Warlord units not currently in the game may be added to the force pools of the major power that controls their home city during any production step and may be built from this turn onwards.


quote:

13.3.2 US entry options
1. Chinese build aircraft (Ja) (There is a 30% chance a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool)
You must choose this entry option before China can build any aircraft unit.

9. Resources to China (Ja)
Allied major powers can’t give resources to China until you choose this entry option. In future turns, each major power can give up to 5 resources a turn (no limit once that major power is at war with Japan). The US can use its convoy points to transport resources to China from the USA.

Choosing this entry option opens the Burma Road. It then counts as a railway for moving resources and build points (only) into China (not out). The scenario information (see 24 Re-open Burma Road) will tell you whether the Burma Road starts the game open or closed.

17. Lend lease to China (Ja) (There is a 50% chance that a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool)
Each Allied major power can give up to 5 build points a turn to China (see 13.6.4 Lend lease). The US can use its convoy points to transport build points to China from the USA. This entry option can only be chosen if you have already chosen USA entry option 9 Resources to China.

24. Re-open Burma Road (Ja) (There is a 40% chance that a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool)
If the Burma Road was closed by political pressure (not military control), it is re-opened when you choose this entry option.



quote:

13.3.3 US entry actions
4. China conquered (Ja) (3 USA entry chits and there is a 50% chance that another being added to the USA (Ja) entry pool) (see Note #3)

Note #3: The USA also picks 1 extra chit a turn for each action (except conquests by surrender). It must go into the marked entry pool.

10. Japan occupies Chinese city: (There is a 40% chance a USA entry chit will be added to the USA (Ja) entry pool)
Each time a Japanese controlled land unit occupies (or reoccupies) a Chinese controlled city in China, there is the possibility of an outrage like the rape of Nanking occurring, an atrocity that the USA public finds out about. You do not roll for cities controlled by the Japanese as a result of a Chinese surrender.

6. Japan forces closure of Burma Road (There is a 50% chance a USA entry chit will be added to the USA (Ja) entry pool)
The Burma Road is one way that the Allies can transport resources (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry option 9. Resources to China) and build points (entry option 17. Lend lease to China) to China. The Axis can close it by physical occupation but Japan can also close it by diplomatic pressure on the Commonwealth.

If Japan does this, an Allied major power can’t transport resources or build points to China via the Burma Road or French Indo-China until it is at war with Japan or the USA chooses US entry option 24. Re-open Burma Road. China can still use the road to transport its own resources. You only have to roll a die for diplomatic closure of the Burma Road, not for physical closure.





_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 202
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/28/2013 10:09:51 AM   
Orm


Posts: 6108
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

It's not a good idea to surrender China in the first turn. The US only gets 3 or 4 extra chits and doesn't get an extra draw each turn. That is simply not large enough a gain for the allies. Of course, Japan needs to garrison China, so it needs to build TERR and GAR too, however he doesn't lose any more units in China and will be able to attack the USSR without having to worry about China. That can be pretty devastating for the allies.
I wouldn't put this option in the AI.
An early Chinese surrender always automatically forces the Japanese to DoW the USSR...


Do not forget the errata from the 2008 annual that say: Halve the US Entry effect of the conquest of a country that surrenders.

_____________________________

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress. - Captain Eric Moody

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 203
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/29/2013 5:19:14 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1636
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
Do not forget the errata from the 2008 annual that say: Halve the US Entry effect of the conquest of a country that surrenders.


I have checked and cannot find this in:
The RAW
The "Australian Design Group WiF FE Rule Clarification Summary © 2009, Australian Design Group"
America in Flames
Patton in Flames
Raw2-Raw6
Raw4-Raw6

Could you post it?



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 204
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/29/2013 6:08:07 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 1674
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
I'm not sure if the content of that Annual ever has been posted for free. It is a product, like the incredible wargame World in Flames, that is for sale. It is already an enjoyable wargame worth every penny, as is the 2008 Annual.

Posting quotes of such content is OK I believe, for review purposes for example. Note the words "incredible" and "enjoyable" there.


2008 WIF ANNUAL - OFFICIAL ERRATA

Surrender (WiF 13.7.6)
Halve the US Entry effect of the conquest of a country that surrendered.
Furthermore, any factories that are completely isolated (have no
friendly-controlled adjacent hexes) count as enemy controlled when determining
if you own less than half your factories for surrender.



In the long run I think the errata were shared on the WiF mailing list / discussion group a time or two actually, but the rest of the Annual contents are not free to the public.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 205
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 7/30/2013 3:12:42 AM   
CrusssDaddy

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 8/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I'm not sure if the content of that Annual ever has been posted for free. It is a product, like the incredible wargame World in Flames, that is for sale. It is already an enjoyable wargame worth every penny, as is the 2008 Annual.

Posting quotes of such content is OK I believe, for review purposes for example. Note the words "incredible" and "enjoyable" there.


2008 WIF ANNUAL - OFFICIAL ERRATA

Surrender (WiF 13.7.6)
Halve the US Entry effect of the conquest of a country that surrendered.
Furthermore, any factories that are completely isolated (have no
friendly-controlled adjacent hexes) count as enemy controlled when determining
if you own less than half your factories for surrender.



In the long run I think the errata were shared on the WiF mailing list / discussion group a time or two actually, but the rest of the Annual contents are not free to the public.


I will report your violation of copyright to the appropriate authorities, hope you enjoy your stay at Guantanamo.

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 206
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 9/7/2013 11:08:48 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1636
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
I was working on strategy for China but not having the 2008 WiF Annual (including Factories in Flames) nor whishing to waste my time copying the rule judgments from the WiF Yahoo group. I have therefore concluded that discussion of MWiF strategy without a clear concept of the rules is futile.


The WiF Yahoo group is set up by year posted not by subject and there is no subject search. This makes it necessary to read the entire set of entries each time you want to find a rule judgment. Yes you can cut and paste from the site you just need to do more work than should be necessary since it is coded in an attempt to prevent this.


Chinese Grand Strategy 24.4.7 The Global war: Sep/Oct 1939 ~ Jul/Aug 1945
Japan has conquered China (east of the 1939 start line) and is aligned with Manchuria and Korea.
Chinese Communists control Lan Chow and Sian.



See below 22.4.15 Chinese Warlords (PoliF option 71)
Cheng-Tu (Warlord) (2-3) Nationalists Chinese
Chungking (Warlord) (5-2) Nationalists Chinese
Kunming (Warlord) (4-2) Nationalists Chinese
Lan-Chow (Warlord) (3-3) Communists Chinese
Peking (Warlord) (3-2) Japanese
Shanghai (Warlord) (5-3) Japanese




Northern China
North Temperate Weather Zone (first pair of impulses)
Sep/Oct: Fair 60%, Rain 30%, Storm 10%, Snow 10%
Nov/Dec: Fair 30%, Rain 20%, Storm 10%, Snow 40%, Blizzard 10%
Jan/Feb: Rain 20%, Storm 20%, Snow 50%, Blizzard 10%
Mar/Apr: Fair 30%, Rain 20%, Storm 20%, Snow 20%, Blizzard 10%
May/Jun: Fair 80%, Rain 10%, Storm 10%
Jul/Aug: Fair 100%

Southern China
Northern Monsoon Weather Zone (first pair of impulses)
Sep/Oct: Fair 40%, Rain 30%, Storm 30%
Nov/Dec: Fair 80%, Rain 20%
Jan/Feb: Fair 100%
Mar/Apr: Fair 70%, Rain 30%
May/Jun: Fair 40%, Rain 30%, Storm 30%
Jul/Aug: Fair 10%, Rain 30%, Storm 60%



Nationalists Chinese Grand Strategy
Nationalists Chinese Force Pools
1x CAV division (0) (1BP 3 Turns): 2nd Cavalry division (1-5)
2x GUN (1) (4BP 3 Turns): 40mm AA (2-3), 57mm AT (2-3)
2x FTR2 (1) (2BP 3 Turns): 2x I-16 (3,0,0,0,4,2), P-36A (3,0,1,0,7,2)
2x LND3 (0) (2BP 3 Turns): SB-2 (2,0,1,1,5), SB-2 (1,0,2,1,5)
1x LND4 (0) (2BP 3 Turns): TB-3 (1,1,2,5,11)



Set up
Chiang (5-(1)-2)
5x INF (5): 1st Army (5-3), 6th Army (4-3), 8th Army (3-3), 14th Army (4-2), and 17th Army (3-2)
2x CAV (2): 1st Cavalry CAV (3-4), 2nd Cavalry CAV (2-4)
5x MIL (5): Canton MIL (4-2), Chungking MIL (4-3), Kunming MIL (2-2), Peking MIL (3-3), Shanghai MIL (3-2)
2x GARR (2): 13th Army (Res) (3-1), 20th Army (Res) (4-1)
1x INF division (1-3)
1x GUN
1x FTR2
1x Oil
Chungking (Warlord) (5-2)
Kunming (Warlord) (4-2)
Cheng-Tu (Warlord) (2-3)



Communist Chinese Grand Strategy
The Communists Chinese can only set up west of the 1939 start line within 9 hexes of Si-An or Lan-Chow but not in Nationalist cities.
The Communists Chinese are exempt from "Option 40: (Chinese attack weakness)" (see below 11.16.5 Resolving attacks).


Communist Chinese Force Pools
3x INF (1) (3BP 2 Turns): 1st Army (5-3), 2nd Army (4-3), 8th Route Army (7-3)
1x MIL (1) (2BP 1 Turn): Lan Chow (4-2), Sian (3-3)
1x CAV (0) (2BP 3 Turns): Cavalry Army CAV (3-4)
1x CAV division (0) (1BP 3 Turns): Cavalry division (1-5)
1x GUN (0) (4BP 3 Turns): 76mm ART (2-3)



Set up
Mao HQ-I (6-(3)-3)
1x INF
1x MIL
5th Army GARR (4-1)
Lan-Chow (Warlord) (3-3)




Production
If Japan hasn't taken any Chinese resources, factories, or strategically bombed any factories it starts the game producing 4BP.

The Chinese player needs to build the Communists Chinese Cavalry Army CAV (3-4) 2BP 3 Turns.




quote:

2.5 Control
Entities
There are 2 geographical entities in the game ~ home countries and territories. Home countries have capital cities, territories do not. A home country consists of every hex that a MAR could reach from the capital of that home country without crossing a red political boundary or entering a hex containing the name of another major power (e.g. all of mainland China including Japanese occupied China is part of the Chinese home nation, but Hainan and Formosa are not).

Changing control
Control of a hex changes when:
* An enemy land unit (except for partisans ~ see 13.1 Partisans (option 46), and supply units ~ see Supply units (MiF option 6)) enters it (the major power entering with the most factors if more than one); or
* An island, territory, minor country or major power is conquered (see 13.7.1 Conquest); or
* France is declared Vichy (see 17. Vichy France); or
* It is a communist Chinese-controlled city entered by a nationalist Chinese land unit or vice versa; or
* During the liberation step you return control to the original owner (see 13.7.5 Liberation, reversion).


4.2 Reinforcements
Chinese communist units can only arrive as reinforcements in a city controlled by the communist Chinese. Similarly, Nationalist Chinese units can only arrive in a city controlled by the Nationalist Chinese. Chinese MIL may be removed from the force pool when the other faction controls their city.


9. Declaring war
China may not declare war.

9.4 US entry
When attempting to declare war on Germany and/or Italy;
-2 if the UK has been conquered.

When attempting to declare war on Japan;
-2 if China has been conquered.
-1 if China hasn’t been conquered but a Japanese unit is in China.
+2 if the US fleet is not in Pearl Harbor (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry option 26).

When attempting to declare war on any Axis major power;
+3 if you have not yet chosen US entry option 34 - Pass War Appropriations Bill (see 13.3.2 US entry options).

9.5 Neutrality pacts
Other major powers
Major powers from opposing sides can agree to enter into a neutrality pact during any peace step provided they are not at war with each other. Both the Nationalist and Communist Chinese must agree before China can enter into a neutrality pact. Major powers automatically enter into a neutrality pact when they choose to come to peace (see 13.7.3 Mutual peace).

9.6 Calling out the reserves
In every scenario some major powers will already have called out their reserves at the start. The scenario information will tell you which ones have. Japan and China have called out their reserves in every World in Flames scenario - their units’ reserve status is for Days of Decision campaigns.


11.16.5 Resolving attacks
Option 40: (Chinese attack weakness) Halve the combat factors of nationalist Chinese land units that are attacking.


13.1 Partisans (option 46)
Controlling partisans
Partisans in ‘green’ countries are controlled by the major power that controlled their country before it was conquered (or still control it if it isn’t yet conquered). Partisans in China are always communist Chinese units. French partisans are controlled by the Free French unless it is completely conquered, after which they are controlled by the Soviets.

13.5.1 Oil (AfA option 48)
You can only use your own oil to flip your units face-up. Even oil controlled by co-operating major powers can’t help. However, communist and nationalist Chinese can use each other’s oil.

13.6.3 Production multiples
Option 49: (Hitler’s war) Replace notes (b), (d) and (e) of the Production Multiples Table with:
(b) +0.25 to China each turn;
(d) +0.25 to the USSR while Germany and the USSR are at war with each other.

Using this option, major powers no longer receive a bonus for an in supply enemy unit in their home country, and the USSR no longer receives any bonuses based on the cities they control.

13.6.4 Lend lease
Lend lease was a device FDR invented to circumvent US neutrality laws concerning non-involvement in the war. US military goods were “leased” to the other Allies on a deferred payment or return basis (preferably without too many holes in them).

To lend lease, you must announce how many build points you are giving during the lending stage (see 5. Lending Stage). You can lend lease any number of build points to or from each major power each turn (exceptions: China and USA ~ see 13.3.2 US entry options and the USSR ~ see 5. Lending Stage). You can lend lease build points and receive them in the same turn (but not to the same major power).

Foreign aircraft
China may not place US sourced aircraft in its force pools until US entry option 1 (build Chinese aircraft) has been picked.

13.6.5 Building units
Limitations
You may only build some Chinese and US units after you have chosen US entry options that let you build those units (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry options 1 Chinese build aircraft and 28 Start strategic bomber production).

13.7.3 Mutual peace
Two major powers at war can agree to come to peace on any terms mutually acceptable (except for transferring units). Both the nationalist and communist Chinese must agree before China can come to peace. A neutrality pact is then in place between the parties.

13.7.5 Liberation
When China is liberated, the liberator may choose to revert each Chinese hex to the Communist or the Nationalist Chinese (some to one and some to the other).

Reversion
You can return a hex or minor country you control to the major power that controlled it in 1939 during any liberation step. You may revert Chinese hexes to either the Communists or Nationalists. You can also return control of a minor country hex to that minor country. You can only return hexes or minor countries to a major power or minor country that is on your side and is not currently completely conquered.

18.1 Who can co-operate
13. Chinese nationalist and communist units don’t co-operate.
14. Partisans co-operate with units from their own country only. Chinese partisans only co-operate with Chinese communist units.

18.2 Not co-operating
Units that don’t co-operate cannot:
1. stack in the same hex, at any time that stacking limits apply; or
2. transport each other’s units; or
3. draw supply from a source controlled by the other; or
4. reorganise each other; or
5. be committed to any combat or mission that the other unit is, or will be, involved in this step. This doesn’t apply to naval air or naval air interception missions.

Foreign troop commitments
A major power or minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of a friendly major power it doesn’t co-operate with is destroyed unless:
• it started the step there; or
• it started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop commitment limit.

A minor country unit that ends any step in the home country of an aligned minor country on the same side is destroyed unless:
• it started the step there; or
• it started the step elsewhere and the unit satisfies the foreign troop commitment limit.

You satisfy the foreign troop commitment limit if there is at least one HQ from the unit’s home country there (any Commonwealth HQ will do for Commonwealth units) and the total number of that country’s non-HQ units there is less than or equal to the total printed reorganisation values of the HQs.

But you can do this
Units that don’t co-operate are not otherwise limited. In particular, they can:
1. occupy the same section of a sea-box;
2. take part in the same naval combat;
3. take part in the same convoy chain (unless neutral);
4. lend resources to each other;
5. trace supply through territory controlled by each other; and
6. enter hexes controlled by each other outside their major power home countries. You may of course only enter territory controlled by another major power on your side if that major power agrees.


20. Chinese communists
The Soviet player always controls the Chinese communist units and their activities count against Soviet activity limits. Partisans in China are always Chinese communist units.

However, Nationalist and Communist Chinese units go into the same force pools. They are built by the Nationalist player but he or she has no choice whether to produce nationalist or communist units.

Apart from the above (and the placement of reinforcements ~ see 4.2 Reinforcements), Communist and Nationalist Chinese count as one major power for all purposes (e.g. they can’t be conquered separately, declaring war on them is only one US entry effect, etc.).


21. Stilwell
Stilwell is a nationalist Chinese HQ. However, he is also treated as a US HQ for some purposes. His HQ symbol is filled in with ‘US green’ to mark this.

Stilwell counts as a US HQ for foreign troop commitment purposes (see 18.2 Not co-operating), so his presence in China allows the US player to send up to 2 US units to China.

He also counts as a secondary supply source for US units (and units that can co-operate with US units). These units are in supply through Stilwell if he can trace a railway supply path back to a Nationalist Chinese supply source.

AfA option 48: Chinese controlled oil resources may reorganize face-down US units in China if they can trace a supply path (of unlimited length) back to Stilwell.


22.4.15 Chinese Warlords (PoliF option 71)
The Chinese warlord units represent forces loyal to one particular Warlord in China rather than the central Government. Each warlord unit has a city stated on the front of the counter. This is the warlord’s home city.

All Warlord units set up in every game on their home city and are controlled by the major power controlling the city. Warlord units whose home city is controlled by the communist player are considered Communist units. If their city is Nationalist controlled, they are Nationalist units.

Warlord units are treated like any other unit for all purposes except that no unit may move nor advance after combat more than 2 hexes from its home city. They can attack from that 2nd hex to a hex where they could not move to, but could not advance after combat.

If forced to retreat from combat, the attacker must attempt to retreat them in such a way that they remain within 2 hexes of their city. However, if this is not possible, the unit is destroyed instead.

Destroyed warlord units return to the owner’s force like any other unit and may be rebuilt as usual. When they arrive as reinforcements, warlord units arrive in their home city.

When a warlord’s home city is conquered (or captured by the other Chinese faction), the warlord unit is immediately removed from the game, even before other combats are resolved (and ones that would have included their units).

Warlord units not currently in the game may be added to the force pools of the major power that controls their home city during any production step and may be built from this turn onwards.


24.1.6 Setting up
Where to set up
When setting up the Chinese, you set up the Nationalists first. The Communists are then set up. They may not be set up in a Nationalist occupied hex.

All units must conform to stacking limits after set up (see 2.3 Stacking).

Chinese communist units can only arrive as reinforcements in a city controlled by the communist Chinese. Similarly, Nationalist Chinese units can only arrive in a city controlled by the Nationalist Chinese.

Chinese MIL may be removed from the force pool when the other faction controls their city.




quote:

13.3.2 US entry options
1. Chinese build aircraft (Ja) (There is a 30% chance a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool)
You must choose this entry option before China can build any aircraft unit.

9. Resources to China (Ja) (There is a 40% chance a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool)
Allied major powers can’t give resources to China until you choose this entry option. In future turns, each major power can give up to 5 resources a turn (no limit once that major power is at war with Japan). The US can use its convoy points to transport resources to China from the USA.

Choosing this entry option opens the Burma Road. It then counts as a railway for moving resources and build points (only) into China (not out). The scenario information (see 24 Re-open Burma Road) will tell you whether the Burma Road starts the game open or closed.

17. Lend lease to China (Ja) (There is a 50% chance that a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool)
Each Allied major power can give up to 5 build points a turn to China (see 13.6.4 Lend lease). The US can use its convoy points to transport build points to China from the USA. This entry option can only be chosen if you have already chosen USA entry option 9 Resources to China.

24. Re-open Burma Road (Ja) (There is a 40% chance that a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool)
If the Burma Road was closed by political pressure (not military control), it is re-opened when you choose this entry option.

28. Start strategic bomber production (either) the USA plays this against either (Ge/It) entry pool and tension pool or (Ja) entry pool and tension pool
(There is a 50% chance that a USA entry pool chit will be moved to the USA tension pool)
The US can’t produce 4-turn LNDs until this entry option is chosen.




quote:

13.3.3 US entry actions
4. China conquered (Not by surrender) (3 USA entry chits and 50% chance that another being added to the USA (Ja) entry pool)

6. Japan forces closure of Burma Road (There is a 50% chance a USA entry chit will be added to the USA (Ja) entry pool)
The Burma Road is one way that the Allies can transport resources (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry option 9. Resources to China) and build points (entry option 17. Lend lease to China) to China. The Axis can close it by physical occupation but Japan can also close it by diplomatic pressure on the Commonwealth.

If Japan does this, an Allied major power can’t transport resources or build points to China via the Burma Road or French Indo-China until it is at war with Japan or the USA chooses US entry option 24. Re-open Burma Road. China can still use the road to transport its own resources. You only have to roll a die for diplomatic closure of the Burma Road, not for physical closure.

10. Japan occupies Chinese city: (40% chance a USA entry chit will be added to the USA (Ja) entry pool)
Each time a Japanese controlled land unit occupies (or reoccupies) a Chinese controlled city in China, there is the possibility of an outrage like the rape of Nanking occurring, an atrocity that the USA public finds out about. You do not roll for cities controlled by the Japanese as a result of a Chinese surrender.



quote:

Activity limits:
All major powers (including the units of their aligned minor countries) during their impulse
Unlimited Declarations of war
Unlimited Naval air interception missions
Unlimited Shore bombardment
Unlimited Ground support missions
Unlimited Headquarters reorganization
Unlimited TRS re-supply

These missions occur during every air mission except re-base, naval air and naval air interception
-- Unlimited Combat air patrol missions
-- Unlimited Escorting aircraft missions
-- Unlimited Intercepting aircraft missions

All major powers (including the units of their aligned minor countries) during an enemy impulse
Unlimited Combat air patrol missions
Unlimited Escorting aircraft missions
Unlimited Intercepting aircraft missions
Unlimited Naval movement only when a unit’s base is overrun (see 11.11.6 Overruns).
Unlimited Naval interception missions
Unlimited Naval combat only in sea areas your opponent moved a unit into, and only if they did not try to initiate combat there.
Unlimited Naval air interception missions
Unlimited Shore bombardment if you are playing with defensive shore bombardment - see 11.16.2 Shore bombardment.
Unlimited Ground support missions
Unlimited Re-base aircraft missions only when a unit’s base is overrun (see 11.11.6 Overruns).


quote:

Nationalists Chinese activity limits:
Naval action
No Rail movement
Unlimited Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Naval Embarkation
-- Naval transport
-- Naval combats
No Land movements
-- Land moves
-- Paradrop
-- Unlimited Debarkation (units transported directly into port debark with no land movement cost)
No Land attacks
-- Land attack
-- Invasions
-- Paradrop
1x Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop this is only possible if your ATRs are carrying units of a co-operating major power that chose a land or combined action.
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Air action
1x Rail movement (You can only rail aircraft units) it costs 1-4 rail moves to move 1 unit depending on the distance moved, see 11.10 Rail movement.
No Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Unlimited Embarkation only if a co-operating major power (that chose a naval or combined action) embarks your unit.
-- Naval transport
-- Unlimited Naval combats
No Land movements
-- Land moves
-- Invasions
-- Paradrop
-- Debarkation
No Land attacks
-- Land attack
-- Invasions
-- Paradrop
Unlimited Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop this is only possible if your ATRs are carrying units of a co-operating major power that chose a land or combined action.
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Land action
1x Rail movement (You can only rail land units or factories) it costs 1-4 rail moves to move 1 unit depending on the distance moved, see 11.10 Rail movement.
No Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Unlimited Embarkation only if a co-operating major power (that chose a naval or combined action) embarks your unit.
-- Naval transport
-- Naval combat (this does not deny your naval units that stayed at sea from a previous impulse the ability to make enemy naval units fight their through)
Unlimited Land movement
-- Land moves (a land move is the movement of 1 land unit - see 11.11 Land movement)
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Paradrop (each Paradrop counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Debarkation
Unlimited Land attacks (a land attack is an attack against 1 enemy stack by any number of units - see 11.16 Land combat).
-- Land attack
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land Attack)
-- Paradrop (each Paradrop counts as 1x Land Attack)
1x Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop (each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Air mission)
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Combined action
1x Rail movement (You can rail land units, factories, or aircraft units) it costs 1-4 rail moves to move 1 unit depending on the distance moved, see 11.10 Rail movement.
1x Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Unlimited Embarkation
-- Unlimited Naval transport
-- Unlimited Naval combat
2x Land movement
-- Land moves (a land move is the movement of 1 land unit - see 11.11 Land movement)
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Paradrop (each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Debarkation
1x Land attack (a land attack is an attack against 1 enemy stack by any number of units - see 11.16 Land combat)
-- Land attack
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land Attack)
-- Paradrop (each Paradrop counts as 1x Land Attack)
1x Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop (each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Air mission)
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Air mission and 1x Land movement.
Each Paradrop counts as 1x Land attack.



quote:

Communist Chinese activity limits:
The USSR player always controls the Chinese communist units and their activities count against the USSR activity limits. Partisans in China are always Chinese communist units.

The USSR starts the scenario as a neutral major power.

quote:

9.1 Neutral major powers
A major power is a ‘neutral major power’ if it is not at war with any other major power. If it is at war with at least 1 major power, it’s called an ‘active major power’.

Units controlled by a neutral major power can only enter hexes controlled by that major power, by a minor country aligned with it, or by a minor country it is at war with. They can also go to sea. A neutral major power can’t co-operate with any other major power (see 18. Co-operation)

Neutral major powers must always pick either a pass or a combined action (exception Germany in 1939 ~ see 10.1 Action types). Each naval unit a neutral major power moves (rather than each task force) counts as 1 naval move - every 5 convoy points counts as a naval unit (SiF option 9: every 2 convoy points (or any spare point) is a naval unit).

quote:

USSR activity limits:
Naval action
No Rail movement
Unlimited Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Naval Embarkation
-- Naval transport
-- Naval combats
No Land movements
-- Land moves
-- Paradrop
-- Unlimited Debarkation (units transported directly into port debark with no land movement cost)
No Land attacks
-- Land attack
-- Invasions
-- Paradrop
1x Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop this is only possible if your ATRs are carrying units of a co-operating major power that chose a land or combined action.
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Air action
3x Rail movement (You can only rail aircraft units) it costs 1-4 rail moves to move 1 unit depending on the distance moved, see 11.10 Rail movement.
No Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Unlimited Embarkation only if a co-operating major power (that chose a naval or combined action) embarks your unit.
-- Naval transport
-- Unlimited Naval combats
No Land movements
-- Land moves
-- Invasions
-- Paradrop
-- Debarkation
No Land attacks
-- Land attack
-- Invasions
-- Paradrop
Unlimited Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop this is only possible if your ATRs are carrying units of a co-operating major power that chose a land or combined action.
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Land action
3x Rail movement (You can only rail land units or factories) it costs 1-4 rail moves to move 1 unit depending on the distance moved, see 11.10 Rail movement.
No Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Unlimited Embarkation only if a co-operating major power (that chose a naval or combined action) embarks your unit.
-- Naval transport
-- Naval combat (this does not deny your naval units that stayed at sea from a previous impulse the ability to make enemy naval units fight their through)
Unlimited Land movement
-- Land moves (a land move is the movement of 1 land unit - see 11.11 Land movement)
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Paradrop (each Paradrop counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Debarkation
Unlimited Land attacks (a land attack is an attack against 1 enemy stack by any number of units - see 11.16 Land combat).
-- Land attack
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land Attack)
-- Paradrop (each Paradrop counts as 1x Land Attack)
3x Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop (each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Air mission)
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

quote:

Combined action
1x Rail movement (You can rail land units, factories, or aircraft units) it costs 1-4 rail moves to move 1 unit depending on the distance moved, see 11.10 Rail movement.
1x Naval movements (a naval movement is the movement of 1 task force - see 11.4 Naval movement)
-- Naval moves
-- Unlimited Embarkation
-- Unlimited Naval transport
-- Unlimited Naval combat
5x Land movement
-- Land moves (a land move is the movement of 1 land unit - see 11.11 Land movement)
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Paradrop (each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Land movement)
-- Debarkation
2x Land attack (a land attack is an attack against 1 enemy stack by any number of units - see 11.16 Land combat)
-- Land attack
-- Invasions (each Invasion counts as 1x Land Attack)
-- Paradrop (each Paradrop counts as 1x Land Attack)
4x Air missions (an air mission is the flight of 1 aircraft unit)
-- Port attacks
-- Naval air missions
-- Strategic bombardment missions
-- Ground strike missions
-- Paradrop (each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Air mission)
-- Air transport missions
-- Re-base aircraft missions
-- Air re-supply missions

Each unit that Paradrops counts as 1x Air mission and 1x Land movement.
Each Paradrop counts as 1x Land attack.










Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 9/7/2013 11:09:21 AM >


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to CrusssDaddy)
Post #: 207
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 9/7/2013 5:52:55 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 18325
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
A nice collection.

A few missing items:

In MWIF, the Warlords have to remain within 6 hexes of their home city. That applies to when they set up as well.

For MWIF I got a clarification from Harry on the activity limits of the Communist Chinese. They are (roughly) the intersection of the activity limits of China and the USSR. So if China takes a Pass action, then the Communist Chinese have also taken a Pass action (in terms of what they can do).

When using Offensive chits, Mao can never gain the benefit: neither from the USSR or from China spending the o-chit.

EDIT: Note that the Communist Chinese have no air or naval units, so the restrictions on activity limits only applies to their land moves and attacks.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 9/7/2013 5:54:29 PM >


_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 208
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 9/7/2013 6:35:14 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 4236
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A few missing items:

When using Offensive chits, Mao can never gain the benefit: neither from the USSR or from China spending the o-chit.


It is understandable given the history of that question why there is a lot of confusion on the subject. The latest ruling is in the FAQ:

quote:

Q20.0-6:
Can Mao play a land Offensive Chit if Russia is doing a Combined?
A: No, the Chinese Nationalists decide when and how Chinese offensive chits are spent. However the chinese communist activity limits are still those of the Russians not the Nationalist Chinese.
Date 25/06/2008
Addentum : Mao can use an offensive chit, if the Nationalists let him, but he can only use it if allowed by the Chinese action type chosen. That is for Mao to use an offensive chit in a land action China must be doing a land action. The actual number of communists activated for movement and combat with that offensive chit is still limited by the activities limits of the russians.
Date 20/06/2009

Also if the Chinese play an offensive chit to flip back all their HQs, then Mao could flip back up. It is notable that any offensive chit involving Mao must be a Chinese offensive chit, not a Russian one.

RAC in MWiF may be different and it would be very rare for this to make much difference in a game, since it is rare that China could save enough BPs to build an offensive chit, plus want to use it on Mao.

In the rare times that I've had any surplus BPs when playing China, I've built the Synthetic Oil.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 209
RE: AI for MWiF - China - 9/7/2013 8:28:59 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 18325
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A few missing items:

When using Offensive chits, Mao can never gain the benefit: neither from the USSR or from China spending the o-chit.


It is understandable given the history of that question why there is a lot of confusion on the subject. The latest ruling is in the FAQ:

quote:

Q20.0-6:
Can Mao play a land Offensive Chit if Russia is doing a Combined?
A: No, the Chinese Nationalists decide when and how Chinese offensive chits are spent. However the chinese communist activity limits are still those of the Russians not the Nationalist Chinese.
Date 25/06/2008
Addentum : Mao can use an offensive chit, if the Nationalists let him, but he can only use it if allowed by the Chinese action type chosen. That is for Mao to use an offensive chit in a land action China must be doing a land action. The actual number of communists activated for movement and combat with that offensive chit is still limited by the activities limits of the russians.
Date 20/06/2009

Also if the Chinese play an offensive chit to flip back all their HQs, then Mao could flip back up. It is notable that any offensive chit involving Mao must be a Chinese offensive chit, not a Russian one.

RAC in MWiF may be different and it would be very rare for this to make much difference in a game, since it is rare that China could save enough BPs to build an offensive chit, plus want to use it on Mao.

In the rare times that I've had any surplus BPs when playing China, I've built the Synthetic Oil.

I'll check the MWIF code. My earlier comments were from memory.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 210
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