Matrix Games Forums

A look through the keyhole #10!The Age of Shadows on Distant Worlds starts now!Paypal System UpdateDistant Worlds: Shadows Final Teaser!Distant Worlds: Legends gets Updated!Recruiting Testers for Commander: the Great War on Mac!Armageddon invasion starts in 2014Command Rommels Panzers in Battle Academy!Servers UpdateThe Deal goes Fourth!		 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mulligan!)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mulligan!) Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mulligan!) - 3/19/2007 2:25:54 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline 		Is this a bug???

In my PBeM game with Spence the airwar over Burma had been heating up...He is the Allies and has been pummeling Magwe. So I decide to throw some fighters at Chittagong where most of his 2E bombers and fighters have have been flying out of...the morning Sweep was acceptable -


06/05/42
Day Air attack on Chittagong , at 31,25
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 17
Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 11
P-40E Warhawk x 7
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed
=============================================

However in the afternoon little did I realize that fighters flying Naval Attack / Sweep will line up in box formation and fly over the airfield at 2000 feet

06/05/42
Day Air attack on Chittagong , at 31,25
Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 32
Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 11
P-40E Warhawk x 6
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 13 destroyed, 6 damaged
Aircraft Attacking:
17 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
2 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
=============================================
06/05/42
Day Air attack on Chittagong , at 31,25
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 62
Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 11
P-40E Warhawk x 6
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 35 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 damaged
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet
8 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet
6 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet
2 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet
5 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet

< Message edited by treespider -- 3/19/2007 2:26:03 AM >

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Post #: 1
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:09:45 AM   
NCSUforest


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Blacksburg, Va
Status: offline 		My guess would be that you ran into alot of AA in that last attack with the zeros

_____________________________




(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 2
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:16:50 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NCSUforest

My guess would be that you ran into alot of AA in that last attack with the zeros



Just re-ran the combat replay - Yes and no...

The afternoon raids were set to Naval Attack/Sweep as opposed to Naval Attack/Airfield Attack.

I went from 62 to 35 Zeros during A2A (-27) air combat and believe I lost another eight to flak.

the Oscars were at 15,000 feet and lost 6 or 7 in A2A and a further 6 or 7 to flak.

The morning raid just engaged in A2A and never bombed the airfield ...it was set to Sweep



_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to NCSUforest)
Post #: 3
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:20:18 AM   
NCSUforest


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Blacksburg, Va
Status: offline 		He must have good radar and pilots with high experience

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 4
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:26:22 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NCSUforest

He must have good radar and pilots with high experience



Then explain why 17 A6M3 shoot down 3 for a loss of 2 at 1:1 odds

and 62 A6M2's with higher experience and at 3.5:1 odds, experience a loss rate of 35:1?

< Message edited by treespider -- 3/19/2007 3:27:00 AM >

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to NCSUforest)
Post #: 5
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:30:11 AM   
NCSUforest


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Blacksburg, Va
Status: offline 		my only other suggestion woild be to send in the fighters on a high altitude sweep for a turn or two to knock down his cap before trying to attack the airfield

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 6
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:31:51 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NCSUforest

my only other suggestion woild be to send in the fighters on a high altitude sweep for a turn or two to knock down his cap before trying to attack the airfield



I didn't try to attack the airfield ...read the post... I was set on sweep....

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to NCSUforest)
Post #: 7
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:42:56 AM   
NCSUforest


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Blacksburg, Va
Status: offline 		your zero's were bombing at 2000 feet.   Makes them easy picking for high cap.  Set to sweep at atleast 15000 feet.

_____________________________




(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 8
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:49:23 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline 		As I stated the game is likely bugged..




The A6M2's were set to Naval Attack / Sweep - Altitude 10,000' - CAP 0
The Oscars were set to Naval Attack / Sweep - Altitude 15,000' - CAP 10

The A6M3's were set to Sweep, Altitude 10,000 - CAP 0

Notice the A6M3's didn't attack the airfield and conducted a normal Sweep, the A6M2's and Oscars apparently conducted an Airfield Attack even though they were set to Sweep. 



_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to NCSUforest)
Post #: 9
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:51:46 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 3641
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: vermont
Status: offline 		His planes came in as BOMBERS at 2000 ft - thus they didn't shoot back much. That is definitely NOT what the sweep mission was "advertised" as. Not sure that SWEEP ought to be a Secondary Mission but it does appear that it is BUGGED if you assign it as such.
Treespider gets the Mulligan.

(in reply to NCSUforest)
Post #: 10
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 3:58:55 AM   
NCSUforest


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Blacksburg, Va
Status: offline 		Spence you are probably right.  His fighters were trying to bomb ships rather than sweep the cap.  I do not use that secondary function much - If I want my fighters to sweep I set them to sweep.

_____________________________




(in reply to spence)
Post #: 11
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 4:12:08 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 3641
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: vermont
Status: offline
quote:

His fighters were trying to bomb ships rather than sweep the cap. I do not use that secondary function much - If I want my fighters to sweep I set them to sweep.



Which means that setting a secondary mission of Sweep to fighters is BUGGED.

Dang I wish I coulda knocked down 35 Zeros for next to no loss in early 42.

(in reply to NCSUforest)
Post #: 12
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 4:19:55 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 3641
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: vermont
Status: offline 		HEY YOU - TREESPIDER - HAVING BEEN GRANTED A WHOLE NEW TURN YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO RUSH THROUGH IT AND MAKE ALL SORTS OF MISTAKES THAT MAKE YOUR LOSS OF ZEROS OVER CHITTAGONG LOOK LIKE SOME BONEHEAD AI SCHEME.

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 13
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 4:31:25 AM   
NCSUforest


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Blacksburg, Va
Status: offline 		I do not believe it is a bug - the zero's were carrying out their primary mission - attacking a TF in that hex.  They will ONLY carry out the secondary mission if there is no TF present


_____________________________




(in reply to spence)
Post #: 14
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 4:39:06 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8183
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		If so, it would have been an attack on a TF, not an attack on Chittagong. Though I do not understand setting Oscars to Naval Attack at 15k. I can't picture getting much in the way of decent results from that setting.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to NCSUforest)
Post #: 15
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 4:46:17 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 3641
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: vermont
Status: offline 		I did have a small TF at Cox's Bazaar when I wrote my turn. To tell the truth I have no idea what I did with them though I vaguely recall some sort of change of location to a place where some kind of air cover was available. May be they mucked up the whole system though it still feels a bit wrong that that is so.

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 16
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 5:13:51 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Strange things happen when you have secondary attacks set: bombers drop torpedoes (extremely effectively) from 20000 feet, or (apparently) drop bombs from 200 feet, and it may be you have found a new wrinkle...

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 17
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 6:08:54 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

HEY YOU - TREESPIDER - HAVING BEEN GRANTED A WHOLE NEW TURN YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO RUSH THROUGH IT AND MAKE ALL SORTS OF MISTAKES THAT MAKE YOUR LOSS OF ZEROS OVER CHITTAGONG LOOK LIKE SOME BONEHEAD AI SCHEME.


2nd to last episode of Rome was on...

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 18
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 6:09:32 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NCSUforest

I do not believe it is a bug - the zero's were carrying out their primary mission - attacking a TF in that hex.  They will ONLY carry out the secondary mission if there is no TF present




Then why were they bombing the airfield???

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to NCSUforest)
Post #: 19
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 6:12:08 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

If so, it would have been an attack on a TF, not an attack on Chittagong. Though I do not understand setting Oscars to Naval Attack at 15k. I can't picture getting much in the way of decent results from that setting.



The intent was not to launch a Naval Attack and if they did c'est la vie...I fully anticipated the Oscar's not to launch a naval attack and to launch the sweep in the PM after his unit had accumulated fatigue in the AM fighting the A6M3's.



_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 20
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 6:14:04 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline 		For what its worth here is the Mulligan'd turn after changing the Oscar's from Naval Attack/Sweep to Sweep. Still bloody but not nearly as one-sided....

06/05/42
Day Air attack on Chittagong , at 31,25
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 17
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 32
Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 13
P-40E Warhawk x 15
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 5 destroyed
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 11 destroyed, 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 7 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed, 4 damaged

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 21
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 6:15:04 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

Strange things happen when you have secondary attacks set: bombers drop torpedoes (extremely effectively) from 20000 feet, or (apparently) drop bombs from 200 feet, and it may be you have found a new wrinkle...



The powers that be are looking into it...

Needless to say I will never use that setting again...

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 22
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 6:15:37 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

I did have a small TF at Cox's Bazaar when I wrote my turn. To tell the truth I have no idea what I did with them though I vaguely recall some sort of change of location to a place where some kind of air cover was available. May be they mucked up the whole system though it still feels a bit wrong that that is so.


Never saw it...

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 23
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 6:27:57 AM   
JeffK


Posts: 4676
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: In a little tin hut in a big tin shed
Status: offline 		Your bombed up Zekes & Hayabusa's got bounced and clobbered by Archie.

Good to see how entering the wrong setting makes the game bugged  Usually these are caused by player input error, not being careful enough in their settings.

Would it be a bug if the Allies suffered heavy losses in this timeframe, Nope, that what happend to them but its not allowed to happen to my unarmoured and fragile Zekes & Oscars

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 24
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/19/2007 6:46:30 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Your bombed up Zekes & Hayabusa's got bounced and clobbered by Archie.

Good to see how entering the wrong setting makes the game bugged  Usually these are caused by player input error, not being careful enough in their settings.

Would it be a bug if the Allies suffered heavy losses in this timeframe, Nope, that what happend to them but its not allowed to happen to my unarmoured and fragile Zekes & Oscars



I did not have my units set to airfield attack....I am not a die hard JFB...in fact my other PBeM i'm the Allies. If you guys want to set your units to Naval Attack/ Sweep feel free. ... I'm not using that setting anymore.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to JeffK)
Post #: 25
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/20/2007 3:39:10 AM   
Gregg

 

Posts: 98
Joined: 7/26/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, this is a bug.
About a year and a half ago, in a pbem game; I sent about 100 Zeros with high rated pilots in a sweep over a Chinese airfield in early 1942.
I lost about 80 of those Zeros along with their 70's and 80's rated pilots (also, there were at least a dozen Aces in this group of lost pilots); to a force of about 30 Hurricanes, for the net result of 1 Hurricane damaged!
That one turn effectively destroyed my offensive air arm in China and Burma.
They were set to sweep at 12,000 feet, with no secondary mission.
This was posted on this forum at that time, and no one had an explanation as to what happened or why.
Gregg

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 26
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/20/2007 3:34:47 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 3641
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: vermont
Status: offline 		Other than not flying I'e never had a problem with SWEEP as a PRIMARY MISSION.
What apparently happened here where Treespider set the fighters to SWEEP as a SECONDARY MISSION was that the program actually sent them on an AIRFIELD ATTACK mission loaded with bombs (in Sweep they might strafe but they don't carry bombs).

(in reply to Gregg)
Post #: 27
RE: Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mul... - 3/20/2007 5:38:13 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9735
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Knoxville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Other than not flying I'e never had a problem with SWEEP as a PRIMARY MISSION.
What apparently happened here where Treespider set the fighters to SWEEP as a SECONDARY MISSION was that the program actually sent them on an AIRFIELD ATTACK mission loaded with bombs (in Sweep they might strafe but they don't carry bombs).


One of the esteemed developers...checked it out and confirmed that is what is occuring... Sweep as a secondary Mission is bugged.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 28
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Bonehead Move of the Week!!! - (Spence I need a Mulligan!) Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.760