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RE: Impression

 
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RE: Impression - 2/21/2007 10:34:15 PM   
warishere


Posts: 53
Joined: 2/18/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shaun Wallace

quote:

Thats fine Shaun, top down works really really well for this type of game but at times, it would be nice to spin the camera while maintaining that top down view. When i`m playing CC, there are times when it can be difficult to get an idea of whats going on and being able to 'spin' the map would help a lot and perhaps being able to tilt the map a little would be a nice addition aswell.


Actually once its moved to 3D, even though its top down, much much more becomes possible within the engine ;)

Sulla


Sounds good... one last question, will we see reconnaissance planes in CC6?

(in reply to Shaun Wallace)
Post #: 91
RE: Impression - 2/22/2007 4:36:21 AM   
Shaun Wallace


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Hmm,

This maybe CC7. Bear in mind that this would be on the strat layer NOT tac layer. On the tactical layer of the game recon planes would really have no place, but on the strat layer, yes they would and intel then passed on down to tac layer. On a tac level yes the info has a place but on a pratical level is it important to see them? With modern mil sims its important to have the FAC/JTAC/FAO because they play such a key role in modern warfare, but thats for air strikes and recon in a modern enviroment.

What would you LIKE to see? what is your vision of the role that could be played in CC on any level by recon planes?

Sulla

_____________________________

Nec amicus officium nec hostis iniuriam mihi intulit, quo in toto non reddidi. - Sulla
----------------------
http://www.closecombat.org/csoforums/portal.php

(in reply to warishere)
Post #: 92
RE: Impression - 2/22/2007 5:47:26 AM   
warishere


Posts: 53
Joined: 2/18/2007
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quote:

With modern mil sims its important to have the FAC/JTAC/FAO


Huh??? I`ll have to admit, I don`t know what these abbreviations stand for.

quote:

because they play such a key role in modern warfare


So CC6 will be more advanced than previous CC games that focused on WWII? I read on some preview of CC6 that it will be based on the Korean war. Is this still in the works or have you guys changed it?

quote:

what is your vision of the role that could be played in CC on any level by recon planes?


I was actually thinking of recon on the tac level. In a previous post you said the maps in CC6 will be 4 times bigger than the current maps in CC. I think it would add to the game to give players maybe 2 recon planes, one to find infantry and tanks on the map and one to find the long range arty guns. One recon plane would be enough... mainly I just want to see a pre-fight phase where you place the long range arty guns which are invisible to your enemy but can be spotted by recon planes. However, players can only send the recon plane in a certain direction and the plane must follow that direction. So the recon mission is not guranteed to work. You could also make the recon mission part of the pre-fight phase. Like after everyone places their units then you have a recon phase.

This would add another layer to the game. Like if your recon plane does spot the long range arty guns you might want to take them out when your air-strike becomes available or you might choose to use your air-strike for something else.

It just adds more strategy to the setup phase and the battle phase.

(in reply to Shaun Wallace)
Post #: 93
RE: Impression - 2/22/2007 1:05:24 PM   
Terl


Posts: 584
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From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warishere

quote:

With modern mil sims its important to have the FAC/JTAC/FAO


Huh??? I`ll have to admit, I don`t know what these abbreviations stand for.


FAC = Forward Air Controller
JTAC = Joint Tactical Air Controller
FAO = I believe is your Field Artillery Observer

Anyway, just bought the game last night. Wow! I am so pleased I did. I can see I have some reading to do so I shall get cracking on that. Well worth my $40 despite other opininions cited earlier in this thread.

One thing I did notice on the install: Once the game installs it then asks about java virtual machine and .net stuff. I did those and the pc restarted as it said. The problem is it then misses the command center install. I noticed because I kept clicking on the modswap and nothing happened. Anyway, I found the docs and they explained what I should see. I ran a reinstall and voila, the second time around I skipped the JVM and .net (already done) and then up pops the window for the command center. Minor stuff but could get confusing for some I suppose. It seems like the command center install portion gets lost among the JVM and .net installs and then the restart.

Anyway, I have graduated boot camp (this was easier than the real one I did over 30 years ago. ) and will be getting into it tonight.


< Message edited by Terl -- 2/22/2007 1:22:33 PM >

(in reply to warishere)
Post #: 94
RE: Impression - 2/22/2007 4:40:02 PM   
sapper_astro

 

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To the poster who said "Just look at the zipped file, etc", I have looked at it and I can hardly make heads nor tales of it.

Having played the **** out of the original game, can anyone who is a CC veteran tell me what they have noticed in the new variant that is improved for the single player campaigns.

Eg: AI? How is it better? Is the armoured 'dance of death' still present? do the AI troops conduct an attack better? do they hide their AT guns better? etc?

Also, how are the mods going? can I use my old CC3 mods with the new one? is there an easy plugin interface with the new version (The old one was easy to me, but if theres an easier version now, do tell).

Basically, tell me in normal language how this new version is better, for someone who will only play single player, than the original version (Barring getting it to work on XP. I already have my CC3 setup with mods and it works fine).

(in reply to Terl)
Post #: 95
RE: Impression - 2/22/2007 5:41:49 PM   
HardRock

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beeblebrox

quote:

it's worth it to me to be able to do all this with a couple mouse clicks
As the production mostly consisted of weather beaten CC Grogs, we are intimately aware of the hassles involved dipping into the world of Mods, which is why we spent particular effort in trying to make this as humane as possible.  It's still not perfect, but a newbie should not now need to go through the pain barrier in order to enjoy the benefits of so many people's hard work (and by this I mean the CC COmmunity in general over the years).

Thank you for the comment.  We are only human, so it does help to know when we have done the right things, as well as when we have made mistakes.

Your welcome:) Not only easier for a newbie but a veteran gamer such as myself you simply wants to play and not hassle getting it running. As I said..my free time is precious and if I can spend $40 to cut it down I will. I wanted to fire up the old CC3 but was not willing to spend the time to get it to run on XP or pluging in the mods.
Now I can play it:) Nevermind all the other improvements:)

(in reply to Beeblebrox)
Post #: 96
RE: Impression - 2/22/2007 5:52:48 PM   
HardRock

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper_astro

To the poster who said "Just look at the zipped file, etc", I have looked at it and I can hardly make heads nor tales of it.

Having played the **** out of the original game, can anyone who is a CC veteran tell me what they have noticed in the new variant that is improved for the single player campaigns.

Eg: AI? How is it better? Is the armoured 'dance of death' still present? do the AI troops conduct an attack better? do they hide their AT guns better? etc?

Also, how are the mods going? can I use my old CC3 mods with the new one? is there an easy plugin interface with the new version (The old one was easy to me, but if theres an easier version now, do tell).

Basically, tell me in normal language how this new version is better, for someone who will only play single player, than the original version (Barring getting it to work on XP. I already have my CC3 setup with mods and it works fine).


I'm not a hardcore person for details so I'll answer in layman terms.
Preface: NO AI is as good as human..not even close. Thats true with all games and just the way it is.
That said. The AI is better. Enough difference to make it playable with some challenge. The veh path finding is much better and I have no problems with it.

Mods. Right from the game menu you can click to go to where the mods are available for COI. Put them in the plugin folder and done. Again from the main menu (everything is from the main menu now) click on mod swap. Presto..install and uninstall any mod you want.
They are fast in coming out. If you want a challenge..try the GD mod.

As to the zip file changes. Just reading down through all them without getting detailed you get a "sense" what has been improved.

Battle Room within game added for H2H multiplay.
Mulitplay campaign of all Russia, single or H2H. Runs 24/7 whether you're on or not.

More realistic moral and squad behavior. Better cover in bldgs now. An AT gun that suprises me in a bldg I'd say is hidden well:)

The CC3 mods don't work per se. The have to be modified for COI which they are as we speak. Several already available and again..this is all from the main screen game menu. All the links you need..right to the newest mods for COI.

(in reply to sapper_astro)
Post #: 97
RE: Impression - 2/22/2007 7:21:43 PM   
Hertston


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shaun Wallace

What would you LIKE to see? what is your vision of the role that could be played in CC on any level by recon planes?


If I may stick my oar in on that one, none. Ditto the/a strategic layer. My reasoning for same is that unless you stick with a relatively simple resource managing thingie to link scenarios within a campaign (as in CC2, where it was done superbly) you are likely to end up with a second rate strategic game bolted on (with all the associated development costs) to a first rate tactical one. Which is a total waste of time when there are several first rate strategic WW2 games. If the tactical combat couldn't stand up by itself, a CC game wouldn't be good enough to release. Trying to do too much is a mistake, IMHO, I can think of precisely one series of games that succesfully married strategic and tactical layers; Total War. There are plenty of others that have failed, many of which have been 'saved' by the fact that one layer or the other (usually the strategic one) was good enough to stand up by itself. Trying to put in too much always results in compromising what a game should be really about.

All that aside, what would I like to see? A new engine (a 3D engine used in a top-down fashion approach as discussed elsewhere sounds promising) that allows much larger maps, combined with modern multiplayer facilities (easy to use in-game browser). The format I'm suggesting would be large maps allowing maybe 8 players a side, perhaps with one taking a distinct 'commander' role, as in a few other games, directing objectives and allocating off map resources (including, maybe, on that larger tactical level, recon planes. ) That would help if people stroll off halfway through as well, as the same general commands could be given to the AI (until somebody else shows up) as well, and maybe the commander could even take direct command if those AI troops were in a critical sector. Chuck in a ranking system of some sort (mainly to ensure the right commander is selected) as well.

Or why not really push up the map size and have CC, the REAL MMOG? WW2 Online (or whatever they call it these) only with CC rather than FPS gameplay.






< Message edited by Hertston -- 2/22/2007 7:37:47 PM >

(in reply to Shaun Wallace)
Post #: 98
RE: Impression - 2/23/2007 12:01:39 AM   
Andrew Williams


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Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Australia
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quote:

It seems like the command center install portion gets lost among the JVM and .net installs and then the restart.


I've noticed this myself.

Can be fixed quick by Running:

C:\Program Files\Close Combat\Close Combat III\Support\CloseCombatCC.exe

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 99
RE: Impression - 3/1/2007 6:06:32 PM   
LitFuel


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From: Syracuse, NY
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Has anyone had any troops go berserk while playing in COI?...it wasn't taken out was it?...I remember in playing CC3 it only happened a few times to me the whole time I played it but it was a riot when it did. Loved that yell...lol

< Message edited by LitFuel -- 3/1/2007 9:30:32 PM >

(in reply to Andrew Williams)
Post #: 100
RE: Impression - 3/1/2007 9:13:36 PM   
Beeblebrox

 

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I think berserk is more likely with conscript type troops.  I haven't had any go berserk yet.  With the mods made to the AI, there's going to be some changes to what you would expect for default CC3 behaviour.  Has anyone had any troops go berserk yet?

(in reply to LitFuel)
Post #: 101
RE: Impression - 3/1/2007 9:23:14 PM   
LitFuel


Posts: 271
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From: Syracuse, NY
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I hope it's still ln there somewhere...I'm still bitter about the dog ejection......the little touches are the things I remember most about CC. Please don't get rid of all of the fun things or after a while it's not CC anymore. If I remember right it was the russians that went berserk the times it happened.

(in reply to Beeblebrox)
Post #: 102
RE: Impression - 3/1/2007 9:34:23 PM   
Beeblebrox

 

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Well I was all for keeping Steiner and Ivan!  But I lost...  Can't win them all...

(in reply to LitFuel)
Post #: 103
RE: Impression - 3/1/2007 10:20:32 PM   
LitFuel


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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beeblebrox

Well I was all for keeping Steiner and Ivan!  But I lost...  Can't win them all...



It was Drill wasn't it?...he seriously needs a happy pill , he killed the dog then went after Ivan and Steiner. They won't be happy until they drive every last bit of fun out of this series. That would'nt be connected to the berserk thing though right? The other was just a cheat, though a fun one.

(in reply to Beeblebrox)
Post #: 104
RE: Impression - 3/2/2007 7:22:20 AM   
Randall Grubb

 

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I have had a few Russian soldiers go berserk, but those were in very close combat in the thick woods of the Ersatz operations or in buildings being overrun. Not like the old CC3 when one soldier would pickup and run 100 meters across open terrain.

Steiner and Ivan didn't make the cut because they were just too unreal - body armor as thick as a modern main battle tank. Like LitFuel says, a little cheat. They were not used in any of the stock battles in the original CC3. Those two could be added to back in by anyone to be used in "just for fun" battles, but the mandate was to get CoI as historically correct as possible, hence their retirement.

As to the dog barking: We ate the dog. BBQ'ed with a Habanero sauce with a pine nut rice pilaf side, sautéed zucchini and onions with dill, a dandelion salad and a nice Merlot from Chile. His bite was as good as his bark.

_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre. - Pierre Bosquet, 1854

(in reply to LitFuel)
Post #: 105
RE: Impression - 3/2/2007 10:17:47 AM   
warishere


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Does anyone know if CC6 will include the ability to replay your battle? It would be great to re-live some of the battles you have in this game. Would be even better to replay the mutiplayer battles and see what each player did and what is was that won the the balltle for them. Save file for replays would be a great feature.

(in reply to Randall Grubb)
Post #: 106
RE: Impression - 3/2/2007 10:34:49 AM   
Shaun Wallace


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From: UK
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Ok,

A small bit of info on CC6. Yes one thing that will be implemented will be a complete replay feature.

This should as well as being fun, stop any aurguments in any H2H play as you can replay the entire battle ;)

Sulla

_____________________________

Nec amicus officium nec hostis iniuriam mihi intulit, quo in toto non reddidi. - Sulla
----------------------
http://www.closecombat.org/csoforums/portal.php

(in reply to warishere)
Post #: 107
RE: Impression - 3/2/2007 1:59:00 PM   
ravinhood


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WHat about random generated maps Shaun?

(in reply to Shaun Wallace)
Post #: 108
RE: Impression - 3/2/2007 2:06:17 PM   
ravinhood


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by Herston:I can think of precisely one series of games that successfully married strategic and tactical layers; Total War.

Yeah and the AI suks miserably in their last two renditions thus making the entire games useless. A successful wedding day does not equal a sucessful marriage.

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 3/2/2007 2:23:01 PM >

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 109
RE: Impression - 3/2/2007 4:59:25 PM   
LitFuel


Posts: 271
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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Senior Drill

I have had a few Russian soldiers go berserk, but those were in very close combat in the thick woods of the Ersatz operations or in buildings being overrun. Not like the old CC3 when one soldier would pickup and run 100 meters across open terrain.

Steiner and Ivan didn't make the cut because they were just too unreal - body armor as thick as a modern main battle tank. Like LitFuel says, a little cheat. They were not used in any of the stock battles in the original CC3. Those two could be added to back in by anyone to be used in "just for fun" battles, but the mandate was to get CoI as historically correct as possible, hence their retirement.

As to the dog barking: We ate the dog. BBQ'ed with a Habanero sauce with a pine nut rice pilaf side, sautéed zucchini and onions with dill, a dandelion salad and a nice Merlot from Chile. His bite was as good as his bark.



Glad to hear that berserk men still make an appearence once in a great while, sounds like it's the same as it would only happen to me when the fighting was very, very close combat and intense....I wouldn't want to see it all the time but it is a nice little surpise and adds to the game. As for the other stuff, well I'm sure over time someone will play around with some fun mods.

(in reply to Randall Grubb)
Post #: 110
RE: Impression - 3/10/2007 4:45:00 AM   
Doggie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shaun Wallace

Hmm,

This maybe CC7. Bear in mind that this would be on the strat layer NOT tac layer. On the tactical layer of the game recon planes would really have no place, but on the strat layer, yes they would and intel then passed on down to tac layer.


Congratulations on your understanding of the function of aerial reconnaissance. A recon plane would have absolutely NO function in a Close Combat type game.

First off, the plane must return to base, photo intepreters do their thing, and the data is passed on the the appropriate commanders. This process takes days at a minimum, not the thirty minutes of the typical CC engagement.

Second, photos are just about useless for what the typical CC gamer has in mind, like spotting hidden AT guns. As for a two man AT team, forget it. Photo interpreters look for indications of military activity, such as tank trails, construction sites, and even latrines. Multiply the number of latrines by an estimate of how many people can use them, and you have an educated guess about troop strength.

Photo planes were used for bomb damage assesment, pre-strike mission planning, detecting supply routes, and as an aid to map makers tasked with drawing topographical maps. A real life commander would never expect a photo mission to find ambush sites or concealed AT guns and individual vehicles, much less units as small as a squad.


_____________________________

Visit the New, Improved Mad Dog's Drive Thru

(in reply to Shaun Wallace)
Post #: 111
RE: Impression - 3/10/2007 5:46:48 AM   
old man of the sea


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I really miss Private Ivan and Sgt Steiner......

You have no idea what a fight I went through to get them in. I had to do it behind Keith's back. he didn't know about them until it was too late.



E

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Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun, but I never have been able to make out the numbers.

(in reply to Doggie)
Post #: 112
RE: Impression - 3/10/2007 7:27:32 AM   
Randall Grubb

 

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Oh, E! Quit crying in your beer. Anyone that wants to add them back in can do so; it's not like the data columns have changed.

I'm quite sure that some bright boy will have a Steiner and Ivan mod up real soon, and maybe coupled with that annoying barking dog we ate.

I've played against an Ivan and a Steiner and it is just not anywhere near a fair fight. You lose at least 3/4 of your force and it takes several 76mm or 88mm rounds to the chest to bring the suckers down, all while the rest of his horde is pressing down on you.


< Message edited by Senior Drill -- 3/10/2007 7:43:34 AM >


_____________________________

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre. - Pierre Bosquet, 1854

(in reply to old man of the sea)
Post #: 113
RE: Impression - 3/10/2007 7:09:47 PM   
LitFuel


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/21/2006
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Senior Drill
I'm quite sure that some bright boy will have a Steiner and Ivan mod up real soon, and maybe coupled with that annoying barking dog we ate.



Yes Please!!!...where do I find this bright boy?

(in reply to Randall Grubb)
Post #: 114
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