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RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny

 
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RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny - 6/26/2007 11:03:32 PM   
MrQuiet

 

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Joined: 4/2/2005
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Ok guys I have heard from Mike McMann and he is dropping out of the tournament due to real life.
 
I have been giving this issue a lot of thought for 2 days now.

His partner Marshall Art has been a very good participant in this tournament and I dont want to see him knocked out of the tournament due to Mike dropping out. They were involved in the following games:

#------Ger--------------------JP----------------RU/CH------------WA-
01) MrQuiet----------Avatar47------------Marshall Art--------mikemcmann
02) Marshall Art------mikemcmann--------dobeln-----------BoerWar

Game 1 will be a Allied forfiet since it is still in 1943. Thus no East vs West to contend with.

Game 2 is in Spring 1946 which would be a draw if the game ended right now (not considering high water marks) and the Axis still look strong enough to hold a couple turns (just my opinion based on limited screen shots)
I have decided to call it a draw with no East vs West. Allies might have made it to the East vs West if they could get the Axis to surrender in a few turns but they would have lost WWII thus losing team points instead of gaining them like they will for being awarded a draw.

So:
Game1 Allied Forfiet no East vs West
Game2 Draw(due to Axis forfiet) no East vs West

Marshall Art will be permitted to play in Round2 if he can recruit a new team member.
Their team Score will be zero (-20 for the Loss and +20 for the draw)
Any AAR points Marshall Art has earned will also be added to his partners AAR score (since there is a definate bit of competition between members of the same team I want them to start at the same level)

*Important*
In the future any player that drops out without finding a replacement and giving that replacement your password will cause DV to your opponents of any unfinished games no matter what the game date is. And Allied opponents gaining this win will have the option to play the stock East vs West scenario.

(in reply to MrQuiet)
Post #: 61
RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny - 6/27/2007 12:15:31 AM   
MrQuiet

 

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Joined: 4/2/2005
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Scores have been updated and you can seem them in the Round2 Thread Here

(in reply to MrQuiet)
Post #: 62
RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny - 6/27/2007 8:07:46 PM   
Marshall Art

 

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First all the best to Mike, what ever he is up against. (what can be more important than AWD...?) Sorry to see you leave

O.K. I have some comments on the resolution since it kind of sets a precedent. I have to mention that both MrQuiet and I are affected by the outcome so we both may not entirely be 100% neutral but I tried to keep the argumentation for the most part valid for any game, regardless who is involved.

We all know this is a long tourney (3 months and still in round one). Therefore there should be more incentives for existing players who loose a partner to stay in or for new players who replace others to come on board IF the team is supposed to be allowed to stay in the tourney. To start at 0 ist not a great incentive. After all this is meant to be a tournament . IMHO it would be greatly unfair to punish the remaining player for the disappearance of his Ally. Agreed, it the team completely drops out there is no other choice than count it as game lost but it is sad to cut off half-and almost finished games IF there were a replacement allowed. I would reconsider writing AARs if I cannot see may game being finished and the work somehow being worth the effort.

As MrQuiet pointed out that for future situations a replacement player may be brought in, even in mid-game. I would like to claim the same right for myself, BTW.
The rationale for calling one game an AV and another a draw is not consistent nor does it give any incentive for the remaining players to finish the game with a new partner. In the current case, it was not exclusively in the hands of Mike and myself why we are "only " in 1943 in game 1 and there are other games which are not over yet as well. The other game (2) is a clear Axis victory IMO. I did not learn from Mike dropping out until yesterday and he did not know he should look for a replacement either.
The (undesired) alternative: all games where a player drops out are forfeit regardless of game year and game situation, the Allied side continues into the stock East vs West scenario. The team will be excluded from the tourney which in light of the duration will leave the winning trophy not to the best team but to the team that has two players who held out the longest.

My suggestion as a rule is: Allow a team which looses a member to find a replacement in a reasonable time. Say - 3 weeks? That player will take over not only the nation but also the points gained or lost from the currently active games. It might seem unfair to inherit points other players laid the foundation for but IMO that is the only way to keep the tournament consitent, i.e. reflecting actual victories on the battlefields. Games which can be finished with replacements should be closed out instead of a forfeit. After all we want to play and explore the East vs. West scenario other than the stock version don't we?

As an additional rule I suggest that players MUST inform all the other players either through Email or through a post on the AAR that they played their turn AND sent it to the next in line. We had several weeks pass by because it was unclear who had the turn or if it was actually SENT after being played. I am sure it happened to others, too. If a player does not show a sign of life within 2 weeks without PRIOR excuse he should be kicked out as well, or at least there should be a significant penalty for him (e.g. one shift down the victory calculation - a DV becomes a Subst.V for that player ONLY). The sudden sickness might happen once but the other times there should be no problem to send out a quick "sorry guys, I am out on vacation or otherwise unable to play for X days." MrQuiet and rjh1971 demonstrated well how this actually WORKS.

MrQ, you run the show. However I would appreciate other player's opinion on the situation since looking at the one-on-one tourney drop-outs sadly DO happen more than once.



< Message edited by Marshall Art -- 6/28/2007 1:24:38 AM >

(in reply to MrQuiet)
Post #: 63
RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny - 6/28/2007 1:28:36 AM   
Marshall Art

 

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Update - I do have a new partner (Sandeman) so there is nothing left in the way to finish those games with him... I shall contact Mike to have him send the PWs for the games. Since most likely my turns were the last ones played I will send those to Sandeman - if that is what can be agreed upon. MrQuiet?


(in reply to Marshall Art)
Post #: 64
RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny - 6/28/2007 1:45:29 PM   
MrQuiet

 

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Hi Marshall Art:

If you can get Mike to send the password to your new partner (better if you dont know what it is) I have no problem at all just substitueing the new player for Mike and continueing on. I did not think you would get a sub so easily and we have had much trouble reaching Mike via email (he said he has not even turned on his computer for weeks)

And I agree that in the future their could be a time allotment to find replacements.
I just hope we dont need to...

-MrQuiet

(in reply to Marshall Art)
Post #: 65
RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny - 7/13/2007 3:44:18 PM   
MrQuiet

 

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Joined: 4/2/2005
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Dobeln 
Last Login 4/29/2007 4:48:44 PM

I think it is a safe bet that Dobeln has gone the way of MIA.
If anyone is interested in becomeing the replacement for Dobeln post here or email me at MrQuiet67@yahoo.com

(in reply to MrQuiet)
Post #: 66
RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny - 7/23/2007 10:08:34 PM   
MrQuiet

 

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Joined: 4/2/2005
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Do you guys think it would be better for the tournament that any Allied team that gets a win continues on to WWIII with the stock WWIII scenario? It looks to me like there is never going to be a way for RU to compete in any continuation games.

MrQuiet

(in reply to MrQuiet)
Post #: 67
RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny - 7/24/2007 9:42:59 AM   
rjh1971


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Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
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You mean with the WW3 scenario that comes with the game? If this is the case I think the tournament will take too long to be finished, there will be one side, the Allies, that will need more time to pass to the next round and thus will keep other players waiting. As it is now the WA has all chances to win unless the Russians knock out Germany real quick before they gear up, but everybody is swaping sides so its a chance for everyone.

< Message edited by rjh1971 -- 7/24/2007 9:43:38 AM >

(in reply to MrQuiet)
Post #: 68
RE: 2vs2 Can I Trust You Tourny - 7/28/2007 7:15:53 PM   
MrQuiet

 

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Joined: 4/2/2005
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(Edit July28 2007) Due to the unbalanced nature of a wwIII continuation game I have cut the East West points in half

These will be the points awarded

Points for East vs West
- Decisive Victory: +15
- Substantive Victory: +10
- Marginal Victory: +7.5
- Draw: +5
- Marginal Defeat: +2.5
- Substantive Defeat: 0
- Decisive Defeat: -5


(in reply to rjh1971)
Post #: 69
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