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RE: Small Ship, Big War

 
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RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 5:43:55 AM   
AU Tiger


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quote:

The bombardment groups annihilated the torpedo boats without loss and then carried out their mission.


Yeah, the PT's were blasted.

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RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 8:48:56 AM   
John 3rd


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Oooops--Missed that in the narrative!  Was it just that TF of PTs or were there more?  I hate those darned gnats!

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RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 9:30:34 AM   
Grotius


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Phew, close call is right. Our favorite ship is right on the front lines. Doesn't Hibiki ever get to do escort duty of routine convoys between Tokyo and Marcus Island or something? :)

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Post #: 1653
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 12:36:37 PM   
Historiker


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How can DDs get so badly damaged by getting hit only from 0.50 and 20mm?

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Post #: 1654
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 12:52:45 PM   
ChezDaJez


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Destroyers are thin-skinned vessels with hulls only about 1/2-5/8 of an inch thick with little if any armor to cover vital spots. 20mm cannon will easily penetrate as will .50 cal MGs when range is less than about 1000 yds.

That's why the B-25s where so deadly against small ships with all those massed MGs in the nose. Just chewed everything up...

Chez

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Post #: 1655
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 12:58:09 PM   
Terminus


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And it's also the reason why B-25 crews in 5th Air Force weren't big fans of the 75mm-armed Mitchells. The big guns were much less accurate than a big battery of .50's, and the MG's were just as, or more, effective when they hit.

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RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 1:36:14 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How can DDs get so badly damaged by getting hit only from 0.50 and 20mm?



Only ship JUST hit by .50 and 20 mm was Hibiki... the others hit a mine (Isuzu) or got hit by a bomb (Tachikaze) - and 2 points sys doesn't seem to be "badly damaged" considering there was 1 point sys going into battle.

< Message edited by rtrapasso -- 11/1/2007 1:38:00 PM >

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Post #: 1657
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 1:48:21 PM   
Reg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How can DDs get so badly damaged by getting hit only from 0.50 and 20mm?


Edit: rtrapasso answered this question so much better than I did so I won't steal his thunder except to say the hits in the top screenshot didn't cause all the damage in the lower one.

The picture below is from Europe (ROYAN, FRANCE. 1944-08-13. THE CARGO SHIP MAGDEBURG). You just have to feel for the wheelhouse crew..

This shows just what 20mm Beaufighter firepower can do to a small ship (and a destroyer would fare no better ).




Edit: I changed the picture for a better one as I didn't want to clutter CF's thread with multiple posts. Sorry for the confusion.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Reg -- 11/1/2007 3:03:20 PM >


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Post #: 1658
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 2:42:10 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How can DDs get so badly damaged by getting hit only from 0.50 and 20mm?



Only ship JUST hit by .50 and 20 mm was Hibiki... the others hit a mine (Isuzu) or got hit by a bomb (Tachikaze) - and 2 points sys doesn't seem to be "badly damaged" considering there was 1 point sys going into battle.

ok, that's explaining it. I've never seen any MGs doing serious damage to ships, so I was wondering...

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Post #: 1659
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 2:59:24 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reg

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How can DDs get so badly damaged by getting hit only from 0.50 and 20mm?


Edit: rtrapasso answered this question so much better than I did so I won't steal his thunder except to say the hits in the top screenshot didn't cause all the damage in the lower one.

The picture below is from Europe (STAV FIORD, NORWAY. 1944-09-19) but shows just what 20mm Beaufighter firepower can do to a small ship (and there are rockets inbound as well ). This ship was sunk.







Anyone else having problem seeing this??

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RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 3:00:26 PM   
Terminus


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No.

EDIT: for "no", read "yes".

< Message edited by Terminus -- 11/1/2007 11:11:50 PM >


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RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 9:05:11 PM   
Japanese_Spirit

 

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Hi there Cuttlefish,

I thought I would just pop in and say how I've been enjoying the story and still been reading in the background. Wonderful writing my good sir! Anyway, aside from the comment, I thought I was just post this information in regards to the Hibiki. You all probably know but I haven't seen it mentioned here so I thought I would bring it up.

It turns out the Hibiki DID indeed survive the war and as part of the cease-fire agreement with the Soviet Union, was surrendered and served in the Soviet Navy right until 1963 until it was scrapped, renamed as the "Pritky".

Here is the relevant info on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_destroyer_Hibiki So, turns out in real life, Hibiki did have good luck and survived! Certainly had a long career indeed.....so, let us hope this luck carries on into the game.

Anyway, I will keep lurking. Also, wouldn't mind a copy of that proposed PDF once the AAR is finished (although hopefully not for a long while)

Keep on sailing!

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Post #: 1662
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 10:14:32 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How can DDs get so badly damaged by getting hit only from 0.50 and 20mm?



Only ship JUST hit by .50 and 20 mm was Hibiki... the others hit a mine (Isuzu) or got hit by a bomb (Tachikaze) - and 2 points sys doesn't seem to be "badly damaged" considering there was 1 point sys going into battle.


Absolutely right. Taking only one point of system damage from three hits (and this during a full speed sprint, which sometimes adds one or two points of system damage all by itself) is lucky indeed. I'm not ready to set up a shrine to Benzaiten in my home yet, but another turn like this one and I may consider it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Phew, close call is right. Our favorite ship is right on the front lines. Doesn't Hibiki ever get to do escort duty of routine convoys between Tokyo and Marcus Island or something? :)


For much of the war, and especially since the start of the year, Hibiki has gone from one dangerous situation into another. I try to let the needs of the game dictate where Hibiki gets sent, but I think the crew and I might need a break from nerve-wracking combat replays. We will see what happens.

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Post #: 1663
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 10:29:20 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Japanese_Spirit

Hi there Cuttlefish,

I thought I would just pop in and say how I've been enjoying the story and still been reading in the background. Wonderful writing my good sir! Anyway, aside from the comment, I thought I was just post this information in regards to the Hibiki. You all probably know but I haven't seen it mentioned here so I thought I would bring it up.

It turns out the Hibiki DID indeed survive the war and as part of the cease-fire agreement with the Soviet Union, was surrendered and served in the Soviet Navy right until 1963 until it was scrapped, renamed as the "Pritky".

Here is the relevant info on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_destroyer_Hibiki So, turns out in real life, Hibiki did have good luck and survived! Certainly had a long career indeed.....so, let us hope this luck carries on into the game.

Anyway, I will keep lurking. Also, wouldn't mind a copy of that proposed PDF once the AAR is finished (although hopefully not for a long while)

Keep on sailing!


It's good to hear from you, Japanese Spirit, and I'm glad you're still on board. Yes, I knew this about Hibiki; it is one of the reasons I chose this ship for the AAR. I think, sadly, that the odds of any given ship surviving this war until Soviet activation are slim indeed, but that's a worry for another day. So far the Japanese still think they are winning this war. The idea of surrendering ships to the Soviets would strike them as absurd.

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Post #: 1664
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 10:38:56 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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Yet another thoroughly gripping combat report! (I can't resist pointing out I mentioned the possibility of mines.) It looks like the IJN High command is going to have to re-think these bombardment runs: the Allies will gladly trade six PT boats for three DD's, and significant damage to a DD and a CL. Not to mention that the airfield is still clearly in operation.

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Post #: 1665
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/1/2007 11:47:02 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

Yet another thoroughly gripping combat report! (I can't resist pointing out I mentioned the possibility of mines.) It looks like the IJN High command is going to have to re-think these bombardment runs: the Allies will gladly trade six PT boats for three DD's, and significant damage to a DD and a CL. Not to mention that the airfield is still clearly in operation.


You did indeed mention the possibility of mines! In fact, I had already seen this turn when you made that post. I really wanted to say something about it at the time, but didn't want to indulge in too much foreshadowing.


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Post #: 1666
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/2/2007 12:03:50 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

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I got something fun in the mail yesterday and could not resist sharing. Here are a couple of pictures of a Navis Neptun 1:1250 scale metal model of Hibiki, sitting proudly on the desk in front of my monitor (please forgive the photography, I was rushed).






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1667
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/2/2007 1:27:37 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

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June 26, 1943

Location: Rabaul
Course: Docked
Attached to: TF 36
Mission: Surface Combat
System Damage: 2
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Proceed to Truk

---

Captain Ishii boards Isuzu and exchanges salutes with the officer of the deck. Forward he can see a missing section of rail and buckled deck plates, legacies of the mine the light cruiser struck. Men swarm over the area, making what repairs they can.

A petty officer takes Ishii to Captain Yoshimura’s cabin. Ishii knocks. After a moment he hears a muffled acknowledgement, so he opens the door and enters.

Yoshimura is seated at his desk. His cap is off and his jacket is open, and Ishii is dismayed by his appearance. There are deep shadows under his eyes and his face looks lined and old. He looks up as Ishii approaches and salutes, then waves Hibiki’s captain into a seat.

“Thank you for coming, Ishii,” he says.

“Of course, sir,” Ishii says. He was ordered to report, of course, and had no choice at all, but he appreciates a commander who maintains the illusion of free will.

“I have new orders,” says Yoshimura, gesturing vaguely at some papers in front of him. “I am to take what is left of my command to Truk. We will depart tomorrow morning.”

“Yes sir,” says Ishii. “Hibiki will be ready.”

“Of that I have no doubt,” says Yoshimura. “I will keep my flag here aboard Isuzu, but I will have to rely on you to get us there safely. Yours is the only undamaged ship left.” Ishii cannot miss the note of bitterness in Yoshimura’s voice.

“What are our orders once we reach Truk, sir?” Yoshimura shrugs.

“The task force will be disbanded,” says Yoshimura. “Isuzu and Tachikaze will begin repairs, and your ship will receive new orders.” He pauses. “I have been ordered back to Japan. I think, however, that I am expected to make a longer voyage than that.” Ishii, alarmed, does not mistake Yoshimura’s meaning.

“Sir,” he says earnestly, “you must not talk like that. This will be a long war. Japan will need every man, especially every experienced officer. There will other days, other chances.” Yoshimura looks up and meets Ishii’s eyes for the first time. His face is filled with pain.

“Three ships lost yesterday,” he says. “And how many men? Four or five hundred dead?”

"Surely not that many,” Ishii says. “Namikaze did reach safety, after all.” Word had reached Rabaul in the morning that Namikaze had, against all odds, survived two more torpedo hits long enough to reach Gasmata. There the destroyer had settled in the shallows, her decks awash. A ship was en route to retrieve her crew.

“Yes,” says Yoshimura softly, “that is true.” He gazes at something far away for a moment, then brings his attention back to Ishii with an obvious effort. “I appreciate your words, Captain. Go prepare your ship. We will sail at 0630 tomorrow morning.”

“Yes sir,” Ishii says. He salutes and leaves, closing the cabin door quietly behind him. His thoughts as he returns to Hibiki are troubled.



< Message edited by Cuttlefish -- 11/2/2007 2:06:03 AM >

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Post #: 1668
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/2/2007 1:56:04 AM   
Feurer Krieg


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Has Hibiki flagged a TF yet? I can't remember, but Ishii certainly seems up for promotion... especially given the likely fate of Yoshimura.

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Post #: 1669
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/2/2007 2:00:39 AM   
Terminus


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Hmmm, he might be transferred to another command.

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Post #: 1670
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/2/2007 2:43:21 AM   
HarryM

 

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Isuzu had quite the career, and survived a great many scrapes until being torpedoed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Isuzu

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Post #: 1671
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/2/2007 2:44:16 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

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June 27, 1943

Location: 65 miles east of Emirau Island
Course: North
Attached to: TF 36
Mission: Surface Combat
System Damage: 2
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 441

Orders: Proceed to Truk

---

Riku rolls out of his hammock well before dawn. Hibiki will be sailing soon and there are many preparations to finish. As his bare feet hit the deck plates something squishes under his heel. Riku utters an exclamation of surprise. He twists his head around and lifts his foot to see what it is he has stepped in.

It is a ball of rice. Puzzled, Riku looks around. Scattered on the deck in front of the largest of the snake’s crates is a curious assortment of objects. There are balls of rice, a couple of pieces of incense, some small pretty stones, even a small roll of money. Riku is baffled.

“They’ve been slipping in all night,” says Shiro sleepily from his hammock.

“Who has? What is this?” asks Riku.

“Sailors with offerings,” says Shiro. “For Benzaiten.” Riku stares at him.

“You are kidding,” he says. Shiro sits up and shakes his head.

“It’s true,” he says. “It makes sense, in a way. We survived, unhurt, when so many others died. It is a comfort to some people to think that it wasn’t just blind luck. If we were saved by something, like by Benzaiten the goddess who is acting through her namesake here, then maybe Benzaiten will continue to save us. That’s much better than trusting to luck, which can change any time.”

“That’s stupid!” says Riku.

“Shush, not so loud,” Shiro replies. “You are a very practical man, Ariga-san. It is why you would be a very good paymaster. But I’m not sure you understand matters of the spirit nearly as well.”

“Don’t tell me you believe it!” says Riku. He does lower his voice, though.

“I think it does no harm,” says Shiro. “I think that whatever gives people hope is a good thing. Now, if Captain Ishii started coming down here and praying to the snake I might start to worry. But that does not seem likely.” Riku laughs.

“No,” he says, “that is hard to picture. All right, I won’t complain. But I will have to watch where I step.” He pauses, looking thoughtfully down at the offerings.

“You know,” he says after a moment, “there might be a lot of money to be made by…”

“Ariga-san!” says Shiro warningly. Riku stops and sighs.

“No, no, you are right,” he says. He takes a last regretful look at the offerings and then begins to roll up his hammock.

---

Isuzu, Hibiki, and Tachikaze depart on schedule. After the ships clear the harbor and head north many on board Hibiki take a look astern to see the sun on the twin volcanoes that flank the entrance. Vulcan is quiet, but a plume of steam rises from Tavurvur. The plume can be seen until the ships are far out at sea.


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Post #: 1672
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/2/2007 4:32:16 AM   
Fishbed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryM

Isuzu had quite the career, and survived a great many scrapes until being torpedoed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Isuzu


Yep funny how it can be close to reality sometimes

quote:

[...]and Isuzu was damaged by a mine laid by the USS Silversides (SS-236),

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Post #: 1673
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/2/2007 2:11:56 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Has Hibiki flagged a TF yet? I can't remember, but Ishii certainly seems up for promotion... especially given the likely fate of Yoshimura.



Not sure WITP would allow this... and Cuttlefish has already cleverly provided an excuse for lack of promotion by Ishii's letters comparing IJN AA guns to steaming animal waste...

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Post #: 1674
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/3/2007 2:39:37 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryM

Isuzu had quite the career, and survived a great many scrapes until being torpedoed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_cruiser_Isuzu


I notice that Isuzu was commanded for a few months in 1928 by some guy named Yamamoto.

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Post #: 1675
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/3/2007 2:42:11 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

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June 28, 1943

Location: 120 miles southwest of Truk
Course: North
Attached to: TF 36
Mission: Surface Combat
System Damage: 3
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 414

Orders: Proceed to Truk

---

Chief Gunnery Officer Kuwaki has the bridge. There has been one report of a possible submarine which turned out to be a small group of Minke whales, but otherwise it has been quiet. This suits Kuwaki just fine.

At the moment he is gazing down at the 25 mm gun tub mounted in front of the tower. The canvas gun cover is half off and Kuwaki can see PO2 Takahashi applying grease to the gun mount’s traverse ring. Good man, he thinks. He recalls a conversation with Lieutenant Miharu about Takahashi’s talent for making quick calculations. His service as a gun captain has been excellent, and Kuwaki makes a mental note to talk to the Lieutenant about possibly moving him onto one of his fire control teams.

Behind him Captain Ishii emerges from his cabin and climbs up to the bridge. His presence is quickly announced and he gives a general nod to acknowledge the salutes he receives. Lieutenant Kuwaki advances to meet him.

“Hello, Lieutenant,” Ishii says. “Have we been menaced by any more rogue whales?” Kuwaki smiles.

“No sir,” he says. “Everything is quiet. We are at 22 knots, course is northeast.”

“Good,” says Ishii. “We should be at Truk by tomorrow morning.”

“Do we have any idea what happens after that, sir?” Kuwaki asks. It is the question uppermost on everyone’s mind.

“I have no idea, Lieutenant,” says Ishii. “We will have to see what the Imperial Navy has in mind for us when we get there.”

“Yes sir,” says Kuwaki neutrally. Ishii takes in his expression and the fact that everyone else on the bridge is trying to listen without seeming obvious about it.

“This ship is in good shape and we are near the most active area in the war,” he says. “Don’t get your hopes up.”

“Understood, sir,” says Kuwaki. “It’s just that, well, it’s been a long thirteen months since we saw home last.” Captain Ishii glances up at the bullet holes and broken windows still in evidence.

“Yes,” he says. “Yes, it has.”


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Post #: 1676
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/3/2007 2:50:10 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
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June 29, 1943

Location: Truk
Course: Docked
Attached to: TF 36
Mission: Surface Combat
System Damage: 3
Float Damage: 0
Fires: 0
Fuel: 475

Orders: Proceed to Truk

---

To Lieutenant Commander Ishii Hagumu, commanding officer destroyer Hibiki:

You will remain with Task Force 36, which will be joined by two additional destroyers. Task Force 36 will proceed immediately to Okayama, where Hibiki will be detached to undergo extensive refit.


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Post #: 1677
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/3/2007 3:14:51 AM   
Fishbed


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Good! We'll know pretty soon if the girls behaved well at home 

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Post #: 1678
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/3/2007 3:16:29 AM   
kaleun

 

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Exhales...

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

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Post #: 1679
RE: Small Ship, Big War - 11/3/2007 4:10:51 AM   
BrucePowers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

I got something fun in the mail yesterday and could not resist sharing. Here are a couple of pictures of a Navis Neptun 1:1250 scale metal model of Hibiki, sitting proudly on the desk in front of my monitor (please forgive the photography, I was rushed).








I like the ones from GHQ. If you don't mind I can post one or 2 of those as a comparison.

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Post #: 1680
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