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RE: Hello - 2/1/2007 9:48:08 AM   
Matti Kuokkanen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Did you track down tos 1.4? What do you think of it?

I gave it test run in end of last year. It looks fine, but not fine enough for me to spend my little money for Warring Suns. I'll stick with MegaMek, MekWars and Steel Panthers World at War.

Has anyone played all of those games and give some comparisons? Hertston, does ToS WS have something worth of money than cost free MegaMek don't have? I know single player campaigns are one, what else?

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 2/2/2007 7:47:27 PM >

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You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

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Post #: 31
RE: Hello - 2/2/2007 9:28:44 AM   
LarkinVB

 

Posts: 1840
Joined: 10/9/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:


Has anyone played all of those games and give some comparisons? Hertston, does ToS WS have something worth of money that cost free MegaMek don't have? I know single player campaigns are one, what else?


Better AI. Better grafics + sound. Better core rule system. Better turn system. Better pilot skill system. Better ...

(in reply to Matti Kuokkanen)
Post #: 32
RE: Hello - 2/2/2007 1:30:21 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1247
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: online 		The move and attack system takes some getting used to.  Trying to coordinate four Titans to take out a single enemy is the stuff of nightmares at the moment.  I am not saying it's bad.  Just that I haven't got used to it yet.  It's fun though.  I'm having a blast. 

Best wishes,


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I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

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Post #: 33
RE: Hello - 2/2/2007 7:45:46 PM   
Matti Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 1640
Joined: 4/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LarkinVB

Better AI.

Define better. And version & date of MegaMek you are comparing this. MM definitely has slow AI, but I guess it's just being thorough or something...

quote:

Better grafics + sound.

Not worth of money.

quote:

Better core rule system.

Again, please define better. Also brief descriptions about some of the rules which are better than on MM or CBT.

Turn system probably deserves point when it's been learned and I have idea about how long list of skills jockey has. Those are nice things which leave even SPWAW on shame. But then, imagine controlling tens of Titans in one game! I don't think it's meant for that and game's restricted numbers of Titans are AC/20 bullet proof for that.

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to LarkinVB)
Post #: 34
RE: Hello - 2/3/2007 4:05:12 AM   
shunwick


Posts: 1247
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: online 		Matti,

I think LarkinVB's "better" list is comparing TOS:WS with TOS 1.4.

As for comparing WS with MegaMek, I don't think any comparison is useful since the only thing they seem to have in common is the concept of the mech or titan.

I can tell you that WS looks like a finished product. I can tell you that I am having a lot of fun at the moment. I can tell you that if WS had 100s of titans on each side the game would be an unplayable nightmare. As a novice to the game, I am having difficulty coordinating 4 v 1. I can see myself improving over time but to control 100s of titans? Not unless every time slice in the game takes about a week to plan and execute.

If MegaMek allows battles between 100s of mechs, then the movement and attack system must be simplistic compared to WS which is why I think comparisons between the two are essentially meaningless.

Would I have prefered to see units other than titans? Possibly, but then I also understand why, within the WS game system, such units are not missed.

As far as I can tell, and keep in mind that I am not an authority on either WS or MegaMech, trying to compare the two programmes is like trying to compare TOAW with SPWAW. It's possible to like both, or one or the other, or neither.

TOS 1.4 probably gives you the best idea of the game-play of WS.

I am sorry that I cannot be of more help.

Best wishes,


< Message edited by shunwick -- 2/3/2007 4:17:10 AM >

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to Matti Kuokkanen)
Post #: 35
RE: Hello - 2/3/2007 5:24:29 PM   
Aensland

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/18/2006
From: Stage 5.0 (26 Dimensional Jump)
Status: offline 		It's not too hard to keep track; give your squad members roles (gunner, flanker, support etc) to remember who has to do what easier, and hunt in formation, as opposed to scattering to cover more map area.


Got any links (reviews, etc) to the games mentioned? MegaMek, MekWars, Steel Panthers World at War. I do know of the first two (aren't they old? I can't find them on GameSpot or even Moby Games), but haven't played them. The last appears to be another title carried by Matrix Games.


Edit:
Okay, here's MegaMek's wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MegaMek
Hey, I do recall reading about this project a (long) while ago. Good to hear it's still progressing. Basically it seems to be directly based on the FASA tabletop game BattleTech. MekWars (and MegaMekNET) are campaign engines wrapped around MegaMek. From the few screenshots I could dig up, it certainly doesn't outshine ToSWS (not that I, or most of us, really care), but I was more interested in finding out how deep it plays. Couldn't find any images showing stats although I could see each Mek has tabs for movement, armor, weapons, systems. If any MegaMek player would care to give a summary, it would be great. Still, the sprites are a little too basic for my liking.

On the other hand... Steel Panthers appears to be about WW2 (tanks, planes) - I'm not really interested in non-mech based TBS games. Well, I do still play Empire Deluxe, and am seriously contemplating getting Killer Bee Software's updated Internet Edition - but Empire's a special case. I must say though that the random map component is a big factor, as well as the relative hugeness of the maps compared to other TBS wargames. Plus that nostalgic factor :)


Back to Titans of Steel: Warring Suns...
The main draw of ToSWS for me are the rpg aspects of your squad, and the random maps. The massive MegaMek battles do sound interesting, but I really like the way you own and bring up a squad in ToSWS. The AI is pretty damn good in ToSWS; I've praised it before and I'll praise it again. The random map encounters can also be customised a lot - tonnage advantage, allied squads, that sort of thing. Real flexible. I also like the time-based turn system; all the commercial big studio mech games I've played or read about are either hairtrigger real time hooey, or simplistic my-turn-your-turn crap. ToSWS is my favourite TBS mech game, bar none.

< Message edited by Aensland -- 2/3/2007 5:39:49 PM >

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Ab Clades, Malevolentia; Ab Victoria, Ultio
( " In Defeat, Malice; In Victory, Revenge! " )

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 36
RE: Hello - 2/3/2007 7:12:43 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1247
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: online 		Aensland,

I am only just starting out on learning the game and the whole sci-fi mech thing is brand new to me but I am getting better little by little. I like the RPG element of the game as well. In the end it's all about gameplay and how deeply involved in it one gets. The RPG element helps in this last respect.

Thanks for the tips. As I learn about the game they are a good to have as roadmap.

Best wishes,


_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

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Post #: 37
RE: Hello - 2/3/2007 7:17:09 PM   
Matti Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 1640
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aensland

Got any links (reviews, etc) to the games mentioned? MegaMek, MekWars, Steel Panthers World at War.

Look at my signature and click on link there.

Anyways ToS is based on Classic BattleTech but takes some liberties from it, like scale (1/3 kilometer per hex). MegaMek follows rules of CBT nearly by letter. If you know CBT, only thing you need learn from MM is user interface (what this button does etc.). Graphics are good enough to distinguish different 'Mech variants.

For more info about MegaMek & MekWars, check out Free strategy games on General Discussion

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to Aensland)
Post #: 38
RE: Hello - 2/4/2007 5:17:21 PM   
Aensland

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/18/2006
From: Stage 5.0 (26 Dimensional Jump)
Status: offline 		Matti: in MegaMek, do you get to "own" a squad, where you take them through battles and they gain experience? That roleplay aspect plus random maps is usually what I look for in a mech tbs game. The large-scale battles sound interesting, too. While I don't think I can personally handle 100 vs 100 (unless combat is simpler), ToSWS's 8-per-Squad limit is kinda small. Also, I am not familiar with the CBT rules. Also, it seems to me the MegaMekNET campaign thing is online? Player rank experience affects quality of units you can deploy? It looks fun, but honestly I don't like multiplayer. Time is a big reason why.

I really like strategy wargames with mechs, but just pushing generic nameless units around (hero #1, hero #2, etc)  makes it hard to care. Despite that, it's why I like Empire, the map can be so large you need to think about the bigger picture - can't afford to get attached to individual units. On the other hand with mech games I prefer a more personal touch.

< Message edited by Aensland -- 2/4/2007 5:42:32 PM >

_____________________________

Ab Clades, Malevolentia; Ab Victoria, Ultio
( " In Defeat, Malice; In Victory, Revenge! " )

(in reply to Matti Kuokkanen)
Post #: 39
RE: Hello - 2/5/2007 12:01:37 PM   
Matti Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 1640
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aensland

Matti: in MegaMek, do you get to "own" a squad, where you take them through battles and they gain experience?

Yes. At end of scenario surviving units can be saved to file. If limited repairs are wanted to be done, that file can be opened with Notepad and edited (MM itself don't have GUI for that). Crew skills (MechWarriors, tank crews etc.) can be modified by game's interface. These things must be done by player, game itself don't do them for you.


quote:

While I don't think I can personally handle 100 vs 100 (unless combat is simpler)

It isn't impossible, it just takes time and computer resources. Action happens in turns, just like in Empire (Deluxe). However even for top-end computers hundreds of units might be bit too much for AI to handle: more units on the map, more time it takes for AI to move one.


quote:

it seems to me the MegaMekNET campaign thing is online?

MegaMekNET is name of MekWars server. MekWars is MMO type game. Players join to different factions to fight for Inner Sphere (=known space). Major point to match forces of opposing players is Battle Value: numerical value about how good force player has. When Battle Values of opposing players are close enough, they can play game. Planets change owners, units get experience, players get and lose units and so on.


quote:

I really like strategy wargames with mechs, but just pushing generic nameless units around (hero #1, hero #2, etc) makes it hard to care.

In CBT and thus in MM and MW MechWarriors can be named. When it comes to vehicles and infantry, commanding officer's name is given.

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 2/5/2007 12:19:57 PM >

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to Aensland)
Post #: 40
RE: Hello - 2/5/2007 12:05:38 PM   
Matti Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 1640
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline 		Double post

< Message edited by Matti Kuokkanen -- 2/5/2007 12:18:06 PM >

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to Matti Kuokkanen)
Post #: 41
RE: Hello - 2/10/2007 12:44:14 PM   
Thorgrim

 

Posts: 2363
Joined: 10/11/2001
From: Portugal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aensland

ToSWS's 8-per-Squad limit is kinda small.


Play a 4 player game, with teams 1 and 3 as player controlled, and 2 and 4 as AI controlled, and you get 16 vs 16

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Iceman

(in reply to Aensland)
Post #: 42
RE: Hello - 2/11/2007 5:04:48 AM   
Aensland

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 5/18/2006
From: Stage 5.0 (26 Dimensional Jump)
Status: offline 		D'oh, I forgot about that ;)

Yeah, I was fixated on the 8-limit because I'm currently "raising" another 4 to complete my squad to tackle the final campaign.

Looks like I got another Squad to build :)

_____________________________

Ab Clades, Malevolentia; Ab Victoria, Ultio
( " In Defeat, Malice; In Victory, Revenge! " )

(in reply to Thorgrim)
Post #: 43
RE: Hello - 2/14/2007 6:04:01 PM   
jureidinim


Posts: 90
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Would I have prefered to see units other than titans? Possibly, but then I also understand why, within the WS game system, such units are not missed.



Though not technically "new units", the factory module of the game allows you to design your own titan which even the AI could use

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 44
RE: Hello - 2/14/2007 6:27:30 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 1247
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: online 		Yes, I have looked at the factory but don't really know enough about the game to work out what I want to design yet. I am having enough trouble keeping my rookies alive in the built-in titans at the moment.

I am gradually beginning to work out an effective strategy.

Best wishes,


< Message edited by shunwick -- 2/14/2007 6:42:59 PM >

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to jureidinim)
Post #: 45
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