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Something to be careful about

 
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Something to be careful about - 12/14/2006 9:15:59 PM   
christian brown


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If you use French forces in a counterattack of some kind, and take some damage, these units will often appear on the production spriral in Canada and the UK, since they are not flagged, this can be a real waste of crucial production (since the french units are going to disappear.)
So, watch out!

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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/15/2006 11:20:04 AM   
coralsaw


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Very intersting Christian. Seems to me that this should be changed in a patch. Units should retain their flags for their lifetime.

/coralsaw


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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/15/2006 6:54:08 PM   
Joel Billings


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They retain there flags. I think he is saying that on the production track they don't have their flags so you can't tell which units are French and which are not. I don't see this as a big problem given that pre-Vichy France does not last long. Also, damaged French troops should be going to French factories unless you have them stacked full of other French units building (instead of using them for research/supplies), which is generally not the best strategy. I guess I just don't see the situation coming up very often. Also, how often do French troops get a chance to be damaged while France is still alive? It's true, if you launch a big French attack and take a bunch of damage, Christian has a valid point and players should be aware of it. I'm not sure how easy code wise it would be to differentiate troops by nationality on the production track (could lead to other problems), so my guess is this is just something the aggressive French player is going to have to be aware of.

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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/15/2006 8:35:15 PM   
christian brown


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Yep, without flagging units on the production track, there is nothing really to be done except pausing all infs, arts, Flaks in production, otherwise, you invite waste at a really bad time...............so, as above: watch out!

BTW, Joel, this happens quite a bit because lots of German players are taking the LC in Fall..............France is still falling in Winter 1940 a heck of a lot, I even pulled it off in Fall 39 once, OUCH!  Of course, I have now taken W GE twice now under these circumstances, but of course my opponents threw in the towel......not much fun there.....


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"Those who would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither and will lose both."
~ Thomas Jefferson

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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/15/2006 8:59:26 PM   
Forwarn45

 

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Thanks for the info! If it's difficult to flag the units on the production spiral, perhaps you could just make it so no French units (pre-fall of France) will go anywhere except to the French factories when damaged. That would solve this problem.

On a side note = even if your opponents quit after losing West Germany, that will teach them to be more cautious in the future if they attempt an early invasion of France. There is no reason to risk anything except getting kicked back out of the Low Countries IMO. Also, depending on Allied deployment, the Germans may think twice about the pros and cons of early invasion.

< Message edited by Forwarn45 -- 12/15/2006 9:14:03 PM >

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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/15/2006 11:13:36 PM   
WanderingHead

 

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I would have thought that the units would take on the nationality of the nation that repaired them.

At least 1/2 of the population of a "French" unit repaired in Canada is actually Canadian.

If anything, the nationality should follow the POPULATION point rather than the unit. The fact that the Canadian factory now has French population to build Canadian units (use it to build new units that will be ascribed Canadian nationality, NOT to repair French units) is actually a benefit to the WA.

This means that it is a GOOD thing to get damaged units out of France, you just have to be sure to use the pop for new builds instead of repairs.


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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/15/2006 11:16:37 PM   
christian brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Forewarn45
Thanks for the info! If it's difficult to flag the units on the production spiral, perhaps you could just make it so no French units (pre-fall of France) will go anywhere except to the French factories when damaged. That would solve this problem.


This would be an ideal way to code, but since french factories do not produce until Wi 1940, quite impossible.....asit stands

quote:

. Also, depending on Allied deployment, the Germans may think twice about the pros and cons of early invasion.

Unfortunately not, since the two I have done this to did not continue the game, most uninteresting.....replays are then in order.....


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"Those who would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither and will lose both."
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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/16/2006 1:24:02 AM   
WanderingHead

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: christian brown
quote:

ORIGINAL: Forewarn45
Thanks for the info! If it's difficult to flag the units on the production spiral, perhaps you could just make it so no French units (pre-fall of France) will go anywhere except to the French factories when damaged. That would solve this problem.


This would be an ideal way to code, but since french factories do not produce until Wi 1940, quite impossible.....asit stands


Wait, does this mean that damaged French units don't go to French factories while the French FactMult=0?

I never thought of that. Once, as Germany I tried to exploit FM=0 by damaging French units which I figured could not be repaired until 1940. Now I see that instead they zip somewhere else where they can be repaired ...

As I see it, this means you definitely have a motivation to get your French units damaged. You can then get your French population off the continent, where you can use it to supplement British/Canadian population (building new units, not French).

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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/16/2006 1:39:20 AM   
Forwarn45

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: christian brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Forewarn45
Also, depending on Allied deployment, the Germans may think twice about the pros and cons of early invasion.

Unfortunately not, since the two I have done this to did not continue the game, most uninteresting.....replays are then in order.....


But perhaps it will teach them to be more careful in future games.

As to the point of damaged French units, the extra population for damaged units still goes to France - where it is useless until 1940. The units just go elsewhere to be repaired. So damaging the French units is problematic, as Christian suggests, with no benefit.




< Message edited by Forwarn45 -- 12/16/2006 1:49:02 AM >

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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/16/2006 1:42:54 AM   
WanderingHead

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Forwarn45
As to the point of damaged French units, the extra population for damaged units still goes to France - where it is useless until 1940. The units just go elsewhere to be repaired. So damaging the French units is problematic, as Christian suggests, with no benefit.


I'll have to try this.

I thought that the pop point and the damaged unit always went to the same place.

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RE: Something to be careful about - 12/16/2006 5:57:37 AM   
christian brown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
I thought that the pop point and the damaged unit always went to the same place.


Like Forewarn45 points out above, it is all just a waste, and a dangerous one at that if you are building, say, an ART in Scotland and an INF in Canada (add a few similar damaged units here and you can't tell who is who),  particularly if  France falls the turn after (which is of course usually the case after a counterattack into TLC) because the PPs you just spent trying to resurrect them just, poof, disappear with the creation of Vichy.


_____________________________

"Those who would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither and will lose both."
~ Thomas Jefferson

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