Matrix Games Forums

A closer look at rockets in Space Program ManagerDeal of the Week - Pride of NationsA new update for Piercing Fortress EuropaNew screenshots for War in the West!Pike & Shot is now available!Server Maintenance Battle Academy 2 gets updated!Deal of the Week: Advanced Tactics Gold Ask Buzz Aldrin!Pike & Shot gets Release Date and Twitch Session!
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: TURN 8

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 >> RE: TURN 8 Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: TURN 8 - 11/11/2006 9:38:37 AM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
Sending it back to Gil.  That turn was a bit of a disappointment.  It actually didn't turn out that badly, but I was expecting SO much more.

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 121
RE: TURN 6 - 11/11/2006 12:39:46 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22786
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jchastain


quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

I'm curious about your decision not to upgrade weapons and attributes of your units knowing an offensive is coming soon. Also, if it's not too much trouble, I'd love to hear more about the specific upgrades and specialized traits available.... How you choose which units to give traits to, and why. I know you've touched on it some already.
Thanks in advance!


What I've been trying to do is upgrade the weapons of the highest quality units. In combat, quality becomes morale. So low quality units route quickly. It isn't worth spending a lot of resources giving good weapons to troops that will only fire them once. I pretty much NEVER upgrade the weapon of any unit with a quality of less than 2.0. I pretty much ALWAYS upgrade the weapons of any unit with quality level of 3.0+. The area in between is the gray area. Improvised weapons are just awful. Shotguns and muskets are slight better. Minies and springfields are slight better than those. Other than VERY VERY high quality troops, I won't pay to upgrade one level. So anyone who has shotguns or muskets, I leave alone (until I get something better). Decent troops with improvides weapons I tend to upgrade to minies.

I also wasn't anticipating the offense in the east so I was holding off on upgrades there. Why do interim step upgrades for units that won't be fighting - just upgrade to something decent once it gets close for time to engage them. Then at the last minute, I've decided I need to commit them. That decision was made based on the overwhealming troop levels so I think I'll still be fine. Last turn I could and likely should have given them some attention as it become obvious they'd be deployed. More than anything my failure to do that was laziness and not strategy.

The specific upgrades are much more defined in detailed combat. The devs have said they apply to quick/instant combat as well roughly in proportion to their cost, but none of us know exactly how those formulas work under the covers (except the devs themselves). But again, the investment makes the most sense for high quality troops that won't turn and run with the first shot. I thought about buying more attributes in the last few turns, but they all cost money and money has been tight. I basically made the decision to focus on diplomacy, supplies and building out key containers instead of improving the current units. Over the next few turns, we'll see if that was the right decision or not.


for me (and I am playing the AI and I got more money to try and spend in my games) I try to at least get most troops armmed with Muskets, point blank fire is good with them (and is also about all you can do with muskets) if I am going to have shock troops, I also try for Richmound Muskets and a Med add on

Lorenz's are worth there weight in gold (but I don't think JC or Gil are going to have many of them, other then what they start with)

_____________________________


(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 122
RE: TURN 6 - 11/11/2006 12:49:51 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22786
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jchastain


Great questions. Let's step through them...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I'm enjoying this AAR a great deal. This game is already a must-buy for me, but I do have a few questions.


Great! That's why we're doing it. It really is good to hear people are enjoying it and getting something out of it.

quote:

First, I'm surprised how expensive diplomacy is. What is this expense intended to simulate? Don't get me wrong, I like it; it adds depth to the game, and it's forcing you to make some hard choices.


I think the expense really is more for game balance than to model anything specific. The CSA gets benefits with every level of relationship they build. If they get to level 6, England or France will enter the war in support of them and that's a pretty big deal. If it were too cheap, both sides would just max it out and leave it there making it irrelevant. The USA has the economic advantage, but they are playing defense. They don't know where the CSA is investing and therefore have to cover the board or take their chances. With modest focused investment, the CSA can achieve some real gains by nudging a pwer their way. With modest spread investment and a little luck, they can get the USA to spend a lot trying to cover it all (which is close to where I am right now).

okay just to be a pain here :), you need a level of 7 to get either France or England to join the war on the side of the CSA, Europe will never join the war, but will keep sending goodies



quote:

Also, I notice that your screenshots sometimes show more than one unit in a province per turn. Do they all occupy the same location, or are they presumed to be in different parts of that province?


All units are assuming to be in the same place within a province. You have have independent units in a province. One of the game options is whether you want them "stacked" with one icon representing them all or whether you want to see separate icons. I prefer to keep them separate. Within a province, you can also choose to combine or divide units. The "container" concept allows a lot of flexibility in reorganizing units, though I am sure some will find that flexibility to be a management burden. I tend to like it.

quote:

Finally, I'm interested that you can pull garrisons from, say, Wisconsin and send them to the front. Do you pay any political penalty with the Wisc. governor for doing so? Or any other kind of penalty?


There is no immediate penalty. You'll see that governors make occasional demands. The governors of Virginia and Tennessee have both demanded a certain number of brigades within their borders already in this game (both players see demands from governors on both sides - politicians aren't very secretive). If Wisconsin makes a similar demand, I'll have to decide what to do about it. But for now, I can empty the state and not worry about it.


_____________________________


(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 123
RE: TURN 6 - 11/11/2006 3:58:05 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
Just for the record, Hard Sarge is the premier general in the play test.  Whenever he and I differ on strategy, you are probably safe going to Vegas and betting on whatever he says.

So, please keep asking strategy questions.  If he is paying attention to all of this and is willing to share his lessons learned, then I might also learn a few things from this little exercise.

Thanks Sarge.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 124
Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 5:34:39 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
Finally a battle... though not much of one. Still, the union is undefeated!

Looks like the CSA beat me to the first upgrade and they got a good one. Target Practice gives you more firepower. I don't like seeing that in their ledger right before the main battles start.

But I won the first fight. A small battle in Bowling Green.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 125
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 5:39:26 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
Looking through the rest of the report...

Looks like they took out more RR infrastructure. They are a little late with that. Most of my troops are already at the front. It will hurt a little as those artillery come on line, but overall his timing is a little off.

Reinforcements are barely denting the need. I still need more camps. So many needs. So few resources. And I'm the rich one.

England and France keep growing. It is costing me a lot, but it is likely good that I am staying focused on diplomacy. Looks like my England diplomacy is finally beginning to pay, but they are making some progress with France yet again. Every time I think I can start reducing my spend their, they prove me wrong. Luckily it looks like Vermont wants to help out, so it is time once again to make hay while the sun shines. I don't know where the money will come from, but I need to spend a little more on France yet again.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 126
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 5:41:47 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
The battle was small, but let's take a look at the battle report just in case anything interesting happened. Sometimes fleeing troops will drop their weapons on the field and leave you some goodies, so it's always a good idea to peak at the battle report and get up to speed on what happened.

In this case, it was as dull as it first appeared. One turn's reinforcements will replace what he lost. But the loss will weaken his retreating army none the less.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 127
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 5:45:49 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
OK, let's see what happened in the east. Damn that Gregg! This is what gets generals fired. He is still just sitting in Fredericksburg. In all fairness, enemy forts can prevent a unit from departing, but it really is time to get out of here. The enemy division escaped from Shenandoah, but luckily the rebs have no spine and didn't close in on me. Time to just fall back to Washington. With any luck, my faint out into this valley will keep all those troops in Virginia while the real fighting happens out west.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 128
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 5:48:24 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
Thw west is stilla bit of a mess, but it is a LOT better than before. Looks like they tried to converge two units on me in Bowling Green and I beat the first one back and then escaped before the second one got there. That was fortunate and it leaves both of his units his slightly weakened and using their supply.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 129
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 5:52:03 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
OK, time to look at the French situation. I really want to get some money focused on France while I have governor support, but I don't really want to lessen my investment in England - it still isn't as stable as I would like and they sell some very nice weapons if you can get enough of a relationship - the only real carrott for the USA. And Other Europe still favors him rather heavily, so I don't want to give that effort too much of a haircut either. I just need to find some more money to cover this from somewhere. I'll leave diplomacy like I want it for now and see what I can find elsewhere and then adjust it at the end of the turn if I absolutely have to.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 130
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 5:53:17 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
I just need to get the AoP back to Washington. Someone needs to give Gregg a kick in the butt and get him to move that army.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 131
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 5:55:57 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
The AoP is likely a good place to save some money. As I think through it, there are two possibilities. 1 - he doesn't move yet again in which case he won't use any supplies. Or 2 - he does move in which case he is safely tucked away out of the fight and doesn't need any. In either case, I think I can lower his supply back down this turn. Looking at it in detail, the 11th division is the only one with a supply problem. I'll leave him at normal supply levels and cut everyone else off entirely since they are pretty well topped off.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 132
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 5:58:04 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
We'll go back now and see how much of our deficit that covers. Hmmmmm... that's good news. Spending problem solved. I can afford my aggressive diplomacy after all, though I really need to free up that money soon and get back to working on building up the quality of my army.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 133
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:00:15 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
I'll combine the units in Wheeling. They took the long route to get there and looking at them I can see they took some march attrition along the way. I need to see just how depleted they are before I do anything more with them. They might need a rest. Also, not much leadership there. They aren't my priority right now, but that's pretty pathetic.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 134
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:02:48 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
Looking at the detail, they're fine. Brigade strengths are down a few hundred, but that's not a big deal. They can go ahead and continue on. Supply is uneven but I really don't want to spend more on this unit right now so we'll let it slide for now since they aren't in any real danger. I'll come back and decide what to do with them in a minute.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 135
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:03:29 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
OK, let's deal with this mess in the west. Here's what we've got now.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 136
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:06:56 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
OK, they've been restructured now. The Army of Illinois is my main force, with the new corp inserted. The 4th Army has mostly left overs, but cannon fodder has its value too.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 137
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:08:37 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
And with the units properly organized, the map looks a whole lot neater. There's my two armies (plus the one next door that didn't quite make it to the party).




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 138
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:16:07 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
Now we can finally begin our western attack. I'm not sure what Sibley and Hindman will do. With my forces collecting north of paducah, they may fall back to their forts on the mississippi. Or he might be smart enough to see me consolidating and be rushing to nashville to do the same. Either way, I have a huge numerical advantage and some fairly decent troops in Keyes' army. The Bowling Green forces will likely fall back to Nashville, but I'll try to catch them while they're divided. I'll throw my lesser armies that way and move Keyes to Nashville. Those lesser armies will later be used to siege a city while the main army pursues. If he brings everything to meet me in Nashville, it might get interesting but I think I can still take him. And if he allows me to march on a subset of his forces, he's toast.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 139
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:18:03 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
OK, at appears I am in good shape in the west, so let's use the Army of Maryland in Wheeling to give him a new threat to worry about. I know that this army is a paper tiger with junk troops, but he doesn't. I'll move them down to the Tennessee border and threaten Knoxville.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 140
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:19:07 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
Taking a closer look at the supply status of the armies of Illinois and Maryland, things look fine. I think they're good to go.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 141
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:20:05 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
OK, let's check out the final finances now that we're done tinkering.

Looks fine.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 142
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:22:08 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
And with the end of my turn, I get my first upgrade. Looks like I'll finally get to start spending that cache of weapons on improved springfields for my troops - assuming the armies that really need them will be in friendly territory to get equipped.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 143
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 6:25:12 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
And a second upgrade... I like sharpshooter training, but I haven't invested in sharpshooters at all, so perhaps I should start with something a bit more generic and come back to that.

Also - notice that I am not getting promotion opportunities any more. That means I have reached my full compliment of officers at each rank and can only promote more by building more academies. I need them, but not as much as I need other things right now - what's new?





Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 144
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 8:15:14 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5151
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline
Very interesting. You asked for questions, I got plenty o' questions. :P

One question is about research: do you accumulate a set number of "light bulbs" automatically each turn, or is the gain in research somewhat randomized, with a greater chance of a gain if you invest more?

Also, a strategy question: why is your focus in the west? Does this reflect the starting disposition of forces or your own choice?

Finally, I gather you plan offensive operations in the west and holding operations in the east. When you go on the offensive, what's your ultimate objective?


(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 145
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 8:40:53 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline

I enjoy the questions, so fire away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Very interesting. You asked for questions, I got plenty o' questions. :P

One question is about research: do you accumulate a set number of "light bulbs" automatically each turn, or is the gain in research somewhat randomized, with a greater chance of a gain if you invest more?


I'll report a screenie from earlier.




In the research section at the left, you can see the progress your research is making in each category - the +XX is the anticipated progress this turn. Progress is fixed based on several things (most of which change based on circumstances). The light bulbs show how far you are in progressing to the next upgrade. So, Naval for example, will earn 9 research points this turn and is about 20% of the way to the next upgrade - meaning don't expect to see one for a while.

If you hold the mouse over a given vanue of research, it will show how your progress is derived. So, I am making 6 research points of progress in logistics this turn. The tool tip shows that 3 of those come from research buildings (meaning I have one lab building somewhere). I lose 2 due to the difficulty level. I left the difficulty level on "Captain" without thinking and even though there are 2 human players, that is handicapping both of us. Unlike many games, this one shows you where the difficulty is applied against you. In the income screen shots, you might have noticed the deduction there as well. I have a governor who is supporting logistics research, so that adds 5. So, the net is +6 per turn. If I were to build another lab, that would add 2 more. Also, each time I get an upgrade, it required 2 research points to "support" it. So, while you will make some progress with your initial starting research buildings, as you progress they do less and less good and you have to build more if you want to progress further.

quote:

Also, a strategy question: why is your focus in the west? Does this reflect the starting disposition of forces or your own choice?


The ANV has a significant quality advantage over the AoP. And the defender gets strong bonuses that are especially potent in the early part of the game when troops are green. So, I can't really mount an effective offensive in Virginia at the start of the game. And I can't move the army away and leave Washington and the economic corridor of New England undefended. So, I find myself instead trying to focus in the west where armies are smaller and I can tilt the balance by bringing in the hordes and making some key investments. I think I have a pretty good advantage out there right now so I hope to take advantage of that. With a few wins under their belt, the troops will see good growth in quality and I can then march east and pin the ANV between a veteran army from the west and the large but clumsy AoP. Or I can march up the mississippi and cripple his economy by taking his cities and cutting him off from his western income (If the USA occupies the entire mississippi, the resource production of the cities west of the mississippi is lost). So with a dominant position in the west, I'll have plenty of strategic options available to me.

quote:

Finally, I gather you plan offensive operations in the west and holding operations in the east. When you go on the offensive, what's your ultimate objective?


Pretty standard stuff. I want to crush his forces and destroy his ability to fund and supply his war effort. The most important thing is to cripple his forces. Once I do that, I am then free to conquer the land. But if I start threatening his economic livelihood, he'll have to react. Once I have him reacting to me, then I have the initiative and get to choose where we dance - which is especially important to me due to the wild difference in quality levels among my troops. That's the theory anyway.

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 146
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 8:49:46 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
Just to ensure I'm being clear... the western strategy is my preference more than anything. I suppose I could focus on building up the east and whittling away there, but it would take longer to get ready (keep in mind none of those ART in process have arrived yet) so I chose to focus where I can do more good faster.

Hard Sarge might weigh in on this one. I think he tends to apply more focus in the East, so he very well might have a different perspective.

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 147
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 9:27:44 PM   
Grifman

 

Posts: 162
Joined: 7/6/2002
Status: offline
One thing I'm not seeing any naval strategy by the Union. I've read in CSA AAR's about blockade runners, etc. Can you describe what naval options (blockades, amphibious landings, etc) that the North has. And are you planning on doing anything in these areas?

As an aside, why is Ft. Morgan on a river north of Mobile and not guarding Mobile Bay? Seems like there are a couple of misplaced forts here and there.

Lastly, can you build forts in locations you later deem important? Thanks.

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 148
RE: Early March 1862 - 11/11/2006 9:42:50 PM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grifman

One thing I'm not seeing any naval strategy by the Union. I've read in CSA AAR's about blockade runners, etc. Can you describe what naval options (blockades, amphibious landings, etc) that the North has. And are you planning on doing anything in these areas?

As an aside, why is Ft. Morgan on a river north of Mobile and not guarding Mobile Bay? Seems like there are a couple of misplaced forts here and there.

Lastly, can you build forts in locations you later deem important? Thanks.


Guilty as charged. I've been very lazy with my Navy. The USA can do blockades - and in fact that's all I have done is park off the coast and blockade his two Virginia cities. To do more, I'd need to spend money on building out the navy and I've ignored it completely. You can do Amphibious assults as well, but again I've ignore that as I tend to play the part of the bull in the china shop. Will I do much in that area? It probably won't be a strategic focus on mine in this game but maybe I'll be more aggressive with the Navy later on.

As for locations of forts, I am the absolute wrong guy for that. I do know that they have gotten some focus but there are interface limitations. Beyond that though, you are better off asking that question of Gil. I believe he is a history professor and a primary researcher for the project.

Yes, I can build forts - and so can he. I might build one in Wheeling for example since my armies might be away from there for a while. But that is yet one more of the economic alternatives you have to choose between. Do I spend on putting a fort their or am I better off working to get siege artillery to support the offensive? Is that more important than the Navy? Building more research capability? You can't do it all so you're constanly having to make those types of tradeoffs.



EDIT: Said CSA can do blockades. Edited to correct that to the USA can.

< Message edited by jchastain -- 11/11/2006 11:14:56 PM >

(in reply to Grifman)
Post #: 149
Late March 1862 - 11/12/2006 8:25:04 AM   
jchastain


Posts: 2152
Joined: 8/8/2003
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
OK... let's see what we have wrought. Hmmmm.... no battles mentioned in the Events page. This ought to yet again be interesting.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to jchastain)
Post #: 150
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [American Civil War] >> Forge of Freedom: The American Civil War 1861-1865 >> RE: TURN 8 Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.109