Matrix Games Forums

Deal of the Week: Command Ops goes half price!New Fronts are opening up for Commander: The Great WarCharacters of World War 1Sign of for the Pike and Shot Beta!More Games are Coming to Steam! Return to the Moon on October 31st! Commander: The Great War iPad Wallpapers Generals of the Great WarDeal of the Week Panzer CorpsNew Strategy Titles Join the Family
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Spain joins the Axis

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War: A World Divided >> Spain joins the Axis Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 8:52:32 AM   
sveint


Posts: 1378
Joined: 1/19/2001
Status: offline
I'm playing Germany in a PBEM - when I load my turn Spain offers to join the Axis! I happily accept, discovering that not only can they produce infantry but also bombers and some other goodies.

However, given some time to think about it, I'd say it's rather unfair (to the Western Allies, and I suppose the Soviets too). I did absolutely nothing, all I did was get lucky! So would it be possible to...

a) make it cost supplies to try to activate Spain instead?
b) have an option in the setup where it and other tiny-percentage chances are turned off

All in the interest of 'balanced' PBEM play.
Post #: 1
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 11:09:49 AM   
Uncle_Joe


Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline
We went back and forth on this in the beta. Personally, I never cared for that simply random chance of certain dramatically game-changing events (like Spain). But in the end, for the sake of variability from game to game, they are probably here to stay (although I could eventually see an option or scenario that removes certain events from the table).

As 'compensation' for Spanish entry, there is a boost of +3 to US WR. Its small compensation, but it can mean the US coming in an extra turn or two earlier.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 2
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 7:47:50 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe
(although I could eventually see an option or scenario that removes certain events from the table).


That would require that the events be in the data files. At the moment, there is no way to mod this.

(in reply to Uncle_Joe)
Post #: 3
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 8:06:06 PM   
GKar


Posts: 617
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

That would require that the events be in the data files. At the moment, there is no way to mod this.


It should be possible to work around this by setting certain events to "has occurred" in wawgoldscendat[YEAR].txt.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 4
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 10:04:29 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GKar

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

That would require that the events be in the data files. At the moment, there is no way to mod this.


It should be possible to work around this by setting certain events to "has occurred" in wawgoldscendat[YEAR].txt.


OK, you could do this to completely remove the event from happening. But it doesn't leave any room for changing the probabilities or the event prerequisites.

In WAW1, the (much simpler) political rules could all be adjusted by defining frozen zones and the various events that would unfreeze each zone.


< Message edited by WanderingHead -- 11/6/2006 10:08:25 PM >

(in reply to GKar)
Post #: 5
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 11:41:11 PM   
GKar


Posts: 617
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline
Yes, but it fulfills what Uncle_Joe wanted to 100%.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe
(although I could eventually see an option or scenario that removes certain events from the table).

That said, more modding options never hurt.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 6
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 12:17:03 AM   
wargameplayer

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
I think having random events and being able to turn them off or on manually would be interesting. The big ones are 1) Late/Early or no entry by the USA/USSR 2) Activiation of Spain 3) Surrender of the UK and its forces --come on now. if The germans were in London. the UK would have surrendered for sure.


(in reply to GKar)
Post #: 7
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 12:48:55 AM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
I think having random events and being able to turn them off or on manually would be interesting. The big ones are 1) Late/Early or no entry by the USA/USSR 2) Activiation of Spain 3) Surrender of the UK and its forces --come on now. if The germans were in London. the UK would have surrendered for sure.


#1 can be done to some extent. Huge WR thresholds can be set in the data files that would never be reached.

#3 might be possible. There are Italian surrender rules, covering a single nation which is part of a player (Germany being the player). Copying the syntax for Italy might work for Britain (though I wouldn't be optimistic).

Actually, I do think that adding appropriate surrender rules for the Allies would be nice. It would be a way to play the war to actual VICTORY instead of a VP based pseudo-victory, and would be realistic. E.g. Russia could easily have collapsed into chaos and effectively surrendered. It is perfectly realistic and possible, but the game does not allow for it.

I was actually thinking that what would be best is if the Vichy surrender rules could be generic, so that one could have Russia surrender leading to everything W of the Urals going German, everything E of the Urals becoming Neutral.

Similarly, under appropriate situations India and Australia should surrender. Similar to Italy, a simple surrender (units disappear, but territories don't change hands) might be possible for individual nations.



(in reply to wargameplayer)
Post #: 8
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 3:08:43 AM   
wargameplayer

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
Right once you are pushing into Tibet with german panzers it starts to seems silly. At the very least the units would probably disappear just like the french does. Saying that the only allies that would ever surrender are French--and not the uk, russia or elsewhere seems really unlikely.


quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
I think having random events and being able to turn them off or on manually would be interesting. The big ones are 1) Late/Early or no entry by the USA/USSR 2) Activiation of Spain 3) Surrender of the UK and its forces --come on now. if The germans were in London. the UK would have surrendered for sure.


#1 can be done to some extent. Huge WR thresholds can be set in the data files that would never be reached.

#3 might be possible. There are Italian surrender rules, covering a single nation which is part of a player (Germany being the player). Copying the syntax for Italy might work for Britain (though I wouldn't be optimistic).

Actually, I do think that adding appropriate surrender rules for the Allies would be nice. It would be a way to play the war to actual VICTORY instead of a VP based pseudo-victory, and would be realistic. E.g. Russia could easily have collapsed into chaos and effectively surrendered. It is perfectly realistic and possible, but the game does not allow for it.

I was actually thinking that what would be best is if the Vichy surrender rules could be generic, so that one could have Russia surrender leading to everything W of the Urals going German, everything E of the Urals becoming Neutral.

Similarly, under appropriate situations India and Australia should surrender. Similar to Italy, a simple surrender (units disappear, but territories don't change hands) might be possible for individual nations.





(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 9
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 3:26:45 AM   
Timmeh


Posts: 741
Joined: 12/20/2005
Status: offline
Italy's troops need to be accounted for and if not careful can lead to doom for Germany (having Italian militia on guard at a crucial territory when Italian surrender is possible), the commonwealth would certainly need to be careful if it suffered this logistical reality.

(in reply to wargameplayer)
Post #: 10
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 12:02:45 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timmeh
Italy's troops need to be accounted for and if not careful can lead to doom for Germany (having Italian militia on guard at a crucial territory when Italian surrender is possible), the commonwealth would certainly need to be careful if it suffered this logistical reality.


Excellent point. And while the game does distinguish Italian and French units, it does not visually distinguish Commonwealth units.

But I know that it does in the background, so you, the player, would be left with no way of knowing which units would disappear. Not good.

(in reply to Timmeh)
Post #: 11
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 3:48:16 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 4824
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer

I think having random events and being able to turn them off or on manually would be interesting. The big ones are 1) Late/Early or no entry by the USA/USSR 2) Activiation of Spain 3) Surrender of the UK and its forces --come on now. if The germans were in London. the UK would have surrendered for sure.




You forget that the UK was not JUST England/Scotland/Wales. Assuming the Government or a portion of it got out, there is every reason to believe Canada and India would have fought on. South Africa would have stopped for sure. Australia and New Zealand had no reason to surrender either.

(in reply to wargameplayer)
Post #: 12
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 7:19:11 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes
quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer

I think having random events and being able to turn them off or on manually would be interesting. The big ones are 1) Late/Early or no entry by the USA/USSR 2) Activiation of Spain 3) Surrender of the UK and its forces --come on now. if The germans were in London. the UK would have surrendered for sure.




You forget that the UK was not JUST England/Scotland/Wales. Assuming the Government or a portion of it got out, there is every reason to believe Canada and India would have fought on. South Africa would have stopped for sure. Australia and New Zealand had no reason to surrender either.


But these are not all part of the UK. Only India was. Others were part of the Commonwealth.

India probably would have stopped fighting. There was an independence movement that saw the war as a vehicle to independence. The other nations of the Commonwealth probably would have kept fighting, although perhaps in defense of their own lands not the fractured Empire.

I interpreted the wargameplayer's suggestion as meaning the the United Kingdom of Wales+England+Scotland would surrender, the rest would do something else.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 13
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 7:20:02 PM   
wargameplayer

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
You forget France had colonies too and they surrender when eastern or western france is taken. If England was taken over, the same sort of Vichy negotiation would have taken place with agreement from other colonies to make peace. If a new government in the UK and the King says --hey we are at peace now with Germany --I think New Zealand would be hard pressed to be sending out the divisions rampaging across North Africa to save mother England.

For england, I think you could make the argument that england requires more strategic territories to fall in order to get surrender terms. i.e. London, Suez, Delhi cause automatic surrender. Or at least have an option for that surrender to occur.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer

I think having random events and being able to turn them off or on manually would be interesting. The big ones are 1) Late/Early or no entry by the USA/USSR 2) Activiation of Spain 3) Surrender of the UK and its forces --come on now. if The germans were in London. the UK would have surrendered for sure.




You forget that the UK was not JUST England/Scotland/Wales. Assuming the Government or a portion of it got out, there is every reason to believe Canada and India would have fought on. South Africa would have stopped for sure. Australia and New Zealand had no reason to surrender either.

quote:

RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 5:47:50 PM
No New Messages
WanderingHead
Matrix Legion of Merit




Posts: 1220
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe
(although I could eventually see an option or scenario that removes certain events from the table).



That would require that the events be in the data files. At the moment, there is no way to mod this.

(in reply to Uncle_Joe)
[Send Private Message] Report | Post #: 3
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 6:06:06 PM
No New Messages
GKar
Matrix Trooper



Posts: 83
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

That would require that the events be in the data files. At the moment, there is no way to mod this.


It should be possible to work around this by setting certain events to "has occurred" in wawgoldscendat[YEAR].txt.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
[Send Private Message] Report | Post #: 4
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 8:04:29 PM
No New Messages
WanderingHead
Matrix Legion of Merit




Posts: 1220
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: GKar

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

That would require that the events be in the data files. At the moment, there is no way to mod this.


It should be possible to work around this by setting certain events to "has occurred" in wawgoldscendat[YEAR].txt.



OK, you could do this to completely remove the event from happening. But it doesn't leave any room for changing the probabilities or the event prerequisites.

In WAW1, the (much simpler) political rules could all be adjusted by defining frozen zones and the various events that would unfreeze each zone.


< Message edited by WanderingHead -- 11/6/2006 8:08:25 PM >

(in reply to GKar)
[Send Private Message] Report | Post #: 5
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 9:41:11 PM
No New Messages
GKar
Matrix Trooper



Posts: 83
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline Yes, but it fulfills what Uncle_Joe wanted to 100%.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncle_Joe
(although I could eventually see an option or scenario that removes certain events from the table).


That said, more modding options never hurt.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
[Send Private Message] Report | Post #: 6
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 10:17:03 PM
No New Messages
wargameplayer
Matrix Recruit




Posts: 13
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: online I think having random events and being able to turn them off or on manually would be interesting. The big ones are 1) Late/Early or no entry by the USA/USSR 2) Activiation of Spain 3) Surrender of the UK and its forces --come on now. if The germans were in London. the UK would have surrendered for sure.


(in reply to GKar)
Post #: 7
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/6/2006 10:48:55 PM
No New Messages
WanderingHead
Matrix Legion of Merit




Posts: 1220
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
I think having random events and being able to turn them off or on manually would be interesting. The big ones are 1) Late/Early or no entry by the USA/USSR 2) Activiation of Spain 3) Surrender of the UK and its forces --come on now. if The germans were in London. the UK would have surrendered for sure.



#1 can be done to some extent. Huge WR thresholds can be set in the data files that would never be reached.

#3 might be possible. There are Italian surrender rules, covering a single nation which is part of a player (Germany being the player). Copying the syntax for Italy might work for Britain (though I wouldn't be optimistic).

Actually, I do think that adding appropriate surrender rules for the Allies would be nice. It would be a way to play the war to actual VICTORY instead of a VP based pseudo-victory, and would be realistic. E.g. Russia could easily have collapsed into chaos and effectively surrendered. It is perfectly realistic and possible, but the game does not allow for it.

I was actually thinking that what would be best is if the Vichy surrender rules could be generic, so that one could have Russia surrender leading to everything W of the Urals going German, everything E of the Urals becoming Neutral.

Similarly, under appropriate situations India and Australia should surrender. Similar to Italy, a simple surrender (units disappear, but territories don't change hands) might be possible for individual nations.



(in reply to wargameplayer)
[Send Private Message] Report | Post #: 8
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 1:08:43 AM
No New Messages
wargameplayer
Matrix Recruit




Posts: 13
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: online Right once you are pushing into Tibet with german panzers it starts to seems silly. At the very least the units would probably disappear just like the french does. Saying that the only allies that would ever surrender are French--and not the uk, russia or elsewhere seems really unlikely.


quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
I think having random events and being able to turn them off or on manually would be interesting. The big ones are 1) Late/Early or no entry by the USA/USSR 2) Activiation of Spain 3) Surrender of the UK and its forces --come on now. if The germans were in London. the UK would have surrendered for sure.



#1 can be done to some extent. Huge WR thresholds can be set in the data files that would never be reached.

#3 might be possible. There are Italian surrender rules, covering a single nation which is part of a player (Germany being the player). Copying the syntax for Italy might work for Britain (though I wouldn't be optimistic).

Actually, I do think that adding appropriate surrender rules for the Allies would be nice. It would be a way to play the war to actual VICTORY instead of a VP based pseudo-victory, and would be realistic. E.g. Russia could easily have collapsed into chaos and effectively surrendered. It is perfectly realistic and possible, but the game does not allow for it.

I was actually thinking that what would be best is if the Vichy surrender rules could be generic, so that one could have Russia surrender leading to everything W of the Urals going German, everything E of the Urals becoming Neutral.

Similarly, under appropriate situations India and Australia should surrender. Similar to Italy, a simple surrender (units disappear, but territories don't change hands) might be possible for individual nations.





(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 9
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 1:26:45 AM
New Messages
Timmeh
Matrix Elite Guard




Posts: 598
Joined: 12/20/2005
Status: offline Italy's troops need to be accounted for and if not careful can lead to doom for Germany (having Italian militia on guard at a crucial territory when Italian surrender is possible), the commonwealth would certainly need to be careful if it suffered this logistical reality.

(in reply to wargameplayer)
[Send Private Message] Report | Post #: 10
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 10:02:45 AM
New Messages
WanderingHead
Matrix Legion of Merit




Posts: 1220
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timmeh
Italy's troops need to be accounted for and if not careful can lead to doom for Germany (having Italian militia on guard at a crucial territory when Italian surrender is possible), the commonwealth would certainly need to be careful if it suffered this logistical reality.



Excellent point. And while the game does distinguish Italian and French units, it does not visually distinguish Commonwealth units.

But I know that it does in the background, so you, the player, would be left with no way of knowing which units would disappear. Not good.



< Message edited by wargameplayer -- 11/7/2006 7:26:11 PM >

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 14
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 7:27:36 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
You forget France had colonies too and they surrender when eastern or western france is taken. For england, I think you could make the argument that england requires more strategic territories to fall in order to get surrender terms. i.e. London, Suez, Delhi cause automatic surrender. Or at least have an option for that surrender to occur.


Actually, I do not forget. I just don't really see the connection.

In 1939, Canada, Australia, New Zealand were NOT colonies. They were nations, recognizing the king of England as titular head of state but with their own independent legislative bodies.

I don't know what flexibility the game provides in this area, probably not much. Obviously, in designing the rule one would have to go through the British and Commonwealth regions carefully and maybe shuffle things around to decide how the surrender plays out.

(in reply to wargameplayer)
Post #: 15
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 7:49:44 PM   
wargameplayer

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
If you think the British empire was not colonial in nature than I'd love to know why they pretty much lost most of it after the war anyway to independence movements or rebellion. India, Africa, Asia and colonies elsewhere struggled for independence in the post war period and the struggle always ended the same way.

You could use Australia and the glorious Dominion of Canada as examples of counties that could carry the battle on but if a vichy like government signed a peace agreement just like France did in the game..I'd be hard pressed to see New Zealand cranking out panzer divisions to take back the Suez canal. If the UK was at peace with Germany -- Canada and Australia were pretty much non factors from a population, industrial and military standpoint. Even Canada had only 10 million people in 1940.

What would be the point of them continuing to fight if the US was not in the war and the KIng and the UK were at peace?

Russia is the same exact thing. If most of the USSR to the urals and a few of the asian territories are conquered then a peace agreement is the likely outcome. And yes I know they had mongolia and I'm sure htey were glorious fighters.

This suggestion just says there should be a event chance for new things such as a peace agreement if certain terrories are taken. Running through to Vladivostok every game with no chance of peace is a waste of game time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
You forget France had colonies too and they surrender when eastern or western france is taken. For england, I think you could make the argument that england requires more strategic territories to fall in order to get surrender terms. i.e. London, Suez, Delhi cause automatic surrender. Or at least have an option for that surrender to occur.


Actually, I do not forget. I just don't really see the connection.

In 1939, Canada, Australia, New Zealand were NOT colonies. They were nations, recognizing the king of England as titular head of state but with their own independent legislative bodies.

I don't know what flexibility the game provides in this area, probably not much. Obviously, in designing the rule one would have to go through the British and Commonwealth regions carefully and maybe shuffle things around to decide how the surrender plays out.



< Message edited by wargameplayer -- 11/7/2006 7:53:50 PM >

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 16
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 8:14:26 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
If you think the British empire was not colonial in nature than I'd love to know why they pretty much lost most of it after the war anyway to independence movements or rebellion. India, Africa, Asia and colonies elsewhere struggled for independence in the post war period and the struggle always ended the same way.


This is a strange conversation.

At every turn, because I do not include every detail of the political structure of the entire British Empire and Commonwealth, plus the French colonial empire, I am accused of forgetting it or misunderstanding it, but I don't think that any of the things I've actually said were disputed.

What I said in my prior post was that Canada, Australia and New Zealand were not colonies; no statement about the rest of the Empire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
This suggestion just says there should be a event chance for new things such as a peace agreement if certain terrories are taken. Running through to Vladivostok every game with no chance of peace is a waste of game time.


Huh? I don't see how you can get to Vladivostok (as Germans, I assume) without winning by AV. If you have AV turned off, then you should consider that AV is supposed to model exactly what you are talking about: the Allied effort is so broken that they sue for peace and/or their governments collapse.

In the end, I think we may be in violent agreement. I do believe that it might be possible to make the game more interesting with appropriate WA (nation specific) and USSR surrender rules, though I doubt it will be possible to implement them (2by3 won't support them, and the data files are somewhat limited in controlling the political arena).

(in reply to wargameplayer)
Post #: 17
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 8:15:40 PM   
sveint


Posts: 1378
Joined: 1/19/2001
Status: offline
quote:

Running through to Vladivostok every game with no chance of peace is a waste of game time.

 
 You need a better Russian opponent.
 

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 18
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 8:47:29 PM   
wargameplayer

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
Well great. Next time when someone makes a suggestion you agree with --then agree with it.

Most complicated WWII games of the period have variable victory conditions for England and Russia if certain strategic territories are conquered. I think in this thread an others I've said England should have a chance of surrender if England + some portion of Suez, Delhi, and 1-2 others. It's a fun game play addition that probably isn't as hard to add as other changed and it's realistic.

So next time you violently agree word it better instead of debating on what the word colonial means and who had a parliament or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
If you think the British empire was not colonial in nature than I'd love to know why they pretty much lost most of it after the war anyway to independence movements or rebellion. India, Africa, Asia and colonies elsewhere struggled for independence in the post war period and the struggle always ended the same way.


This is a strange conversation.

At every turn, because I do not include every detail of the political structure of the entire British Empire and Commonwealth, plus the French colonial empire, I am accused of forgetting it or misunderstanding it, but I don't think that any of the things I've actually said were disputed.

What I said in my prior post was that Canada, Australia and New Zealand were not colonies; no statement about the rest of the Empire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
This suggestion just says there should be a event chance for new things such as a peace agreement if certain terrories are taken. Running through to Vladivostok every game with no chance of peace is a waste of game time.


Huh? I don't see how you can get to Vladivostok (as Germans, I assume) without winning by AV. If you have AV turned off, then you should consider that AV is supposed to model exactly what you are talking about: the Allied effort is so broken that they sue for peace and/or their governments collapse.

In the end, I think we may be in violent agreement. I do believe that it might be possible to make the game more interesting with appropriate WA (nation specific) and USSR surrender rules, though I doubt it will be possible to implement them (2by3 won't support them, and the data files are somewhat limited in controlling the political arena).



(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 19
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/7/2006 9:20:44 PM   
WanderingHead

 

Posts: 2132
Joined: 9/22/2004
From: GMT-8
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wargameplayer
Well great. Next time when someone makes a suggestion you agree with --then agree with it.


I DID agree with it, if I understand what you want me to agree with, in post #8.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead
Actually, I do think that adding appropriate surrender rules for the Allies would be nice. It would be a way to play the war to actual VICTORY instead of a VP based pseudo-victory, and would be realistic. E.g. Russia could easily have collapsed into chaos and effectively surrendered. It is perfectly realistic and possible, but the game does not allow for it.


If you mod the files and get some interesting Allied surrender rules to work, let us know.

(in reply to wargameplayer)
Post #: 20
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/8/2006 12:48:33 AM   
Timmeh


Posts: 741
Joined: 12/20/2005
Status: offline
This thread made baby jesus cry !


I think with whats being said in this thread, WanderingHead kinda hit the nail on the head with 'but thats axis AV anyway'

I still would like to see every nations units like France and Italy and some surrender rules for England, Russia it would certainly add another level of detail even if mostly superficial to actual gameplay.

(in reply to WanderingHead)
Post #: 21
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/8/2006 5:42:34 AM   
wargameplayer

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timmeh

This thread made baby jesus cry !


I think with whats being said in this thread, WanderingHead kinda hit the nail on the head with 'but thats axis AV anyway'



Not at all.

If the AV and Axis wins it's still a challenge for Axis to win a conquest victory if they were to continue the game. Try it. Once the US economy gets in gear the production can be pretty formidable. The point is to continue the game if SOME Allies surrender as oppose to all of them surrendering and not being able to continue the game. Many WWII games do this and it adds to the replayability and fun of the game. Which is kinda the point.

(in reply to Timmeh)
Post #: 22
RE: Spain joins the Axis - 11/9/2006 3:47:39 PM   
Rabbitman


Posts: 60
Joined: 11/9/2006
From: The Planet Earth
Status: offline
Australia probably would have pulled out of Europe but never would have surrendered. Would have been rather dangerous, with the upcoming and inevitable war in the Pacific.

I mean the Japanese would still have threatened us and we would have to have fought back but that would've been difficult if we were part of some deal with Vichy Commonwealth and Germany.

< Message edited by Rabbitman -- 11/9/2006 3:57:50 PM >


_____________________________


Pride of the League

(in reply to wargameplayer)
Post #: 23
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War: A World Divided >> Spain joins the Axis Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.129