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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

 
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/22/2013 2:58:09 PM   
Gendarme

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Status: offline
Just a note concerning Two Italian units:

The Eug Filiberto corps was printed incorrectly in the original game. I believe this corps is supposed to be named after a renaissance era Duke of Savoy and military hero, Emanuele Filiberto, who led King Philip II of Spain's army to victory over the French at Saint Quentin in 1557, bringing an end to the Italian wars and ending French involvement in Italy for some time. There is no Eug Filiberto in the House of Savoy (Italy's Royal Family from 1860), but there was of course Prince Eugene of Savoy who served the Habsburgs against the Turk and then the French armies of the Sun King in the late 1600s to early 1700s.

As a side note, both the Germans and Italians hold Eugene as a military hero, the Germans because he fought for Austria, the Italians because he was a Savoy. Hence, the KM has the CA Prinz Eugen and the RM has the Eugenio di Savoia.

Also, another unit is misspelled, I believe. It is the Mizza cavalry corps. There was a Nizza cavalry regiment, and that was probably what was intended when the counter was first created.

I know it will contradict original wif, but can we correct these misnamed Italian units for Matrix wif please? Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher

(in reply to michaelbaldur)
Post #: 2251
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/22/2013 3:13:15 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1660
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


no offence, I have already done most of those write ups.

who decided they were no good

I have done the Australians, south Africa, Denmark, Poland, NZ



just went though those write ups. and none of them are mine.

and looking though the rest of the ones I remembered I did. they are not mine either

so basic.... all my work have been erased.


Was the content similar or completely different?

It could have been edited. A lot of mine have been edited which I expected them to be.




_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to michaelbaldur)
Post #: 2252
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/22/2013 3:53:17 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1660
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

Just a note concerning Two Italian units:

The Eug Filiberto corps was printed incorrectly in the original game. I believe this corps is supposed to be named after a renaissance era Duke of Savoy and military hero, Emanuele Filiberto, who led King Philip II of Spain's army to victory over the French at Saint Quentin in 1557, bringing an end to the Italian wars and ending French involvement in Italy for some time. There is no Eug Filiberto in the House of Savoy (Italy's Royal Family from 1860), but there was of course Prince Eugene of Savoy who served the Habsburgs against the Turk and then the French armies of the Sun King in the late 1600s to early 1700s.

As a side note, both the Germans and Italians hold Eugene as a military hero, the Germans because he fought for Austria, the Italians because he was a Savoy. Hence, the KM has the CA Prinz Eugen and the RM has the Eugenio di Savoia.

Also, another unit is misspelled, I believe. It is the Mizza cavalry corps. There was a Nizza cavalry regiment, and that was probably what was intended when the counter was first created.

I know it will contradict original wif, but can we correct these misnamed Italian units for Matrix wif please? Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher


Filiberto corps could have been named after Prince Emanuele Filiberto, Duke of Aosta who led the Italian Third Army (Armata invitta ~ "undefeated army") in WWI.

Prince Emanuele Filiberto, Duke of Aosta was made a Maresciallo d'Italia (Marshal of Italy) by Benito Mussolini in 1926.

And you are correct about Mizza/Nizza and it was decided to ask Harry Roland about this but there have been no post on any results.

Keep up the good work Gendarme



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2253
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/23/2013 5:06:06 AM   
Gendarme

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Status: offline
Of course, I forgot about the Duca d'Aosta! Father of the Duke of Aosta who ended up as Viceroy of Africa Orientale. The corps is probably named after the WWI general. He was the more recent Emanuele Filiberto and no doubt better known. How archaic would it have been to name a unit after someone from four centuries past. Even if the Testa di ferro was also a famous soldier. There's a great equestrian statue of the Duke in Torino, the Caval d'brons I believe. He's in a beautiful suit of full armor with sword raised. On his horse's bridle can be seen the Savoia motto, FERT.

I know, wildly off topic. Don't jump on me.

Anthony DeChristopher

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2254
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/23/2013 8:15:11 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1660
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

Of course, I forgot about the Duca d'Aosta! Father of the Duke of Aosta who ended up as Viceroy of Africa Orientale. The corps is probably named after the WWI general. He was the more recent Emanuele Filiberto and no doubt better known. How archaic would it have been to name a unit after someone from four centuries past. Even if the Testa di ferro was also a famous soldier. There's a great equestrian statue of the Duke in Torino, the Caval d'brons I believe. He's in a beautiful suit of full armor with sword raised. On his horse's bridle can be seen the Savoia motto, FERT.

I know, wildly off topic. Don't jump on me.

Anthony DeChristopher


I see it as totally on topic as we are discussing unit descriptions after all.



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Gendarme)
Post #: 2255
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/23/2013 6:25:12 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 18402
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

Of course, I forgot about the Duca d'Aosta! Father of the Duke of Aosta who ended up as Viceroy of Africa Orientale. The corps is probably named after the WWI general. He was the more recent Emanuele Filiberto and no doubt better known. How archaic would it have been to name a unit after someone from four centuries past. Even if the Testa di ferro was also a famous soldier. There's a great equestrian statue of the Duke in Torino, the Caval d'brons I believe. He's in a beautiful suit of full armor with sword raised. On his horse's bridle can be seen the Savoia motto, FERT.

I know, wildly off topic. Don't jump on me.

Anthony DeChristopher


I see it as totally on topic as we are discussing unit descriptions after all.



Yes, I agree.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2256
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/24/2013 5:22:53 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 4400
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

Of course, I forgot about the Duca d'Aosta! Father of the Duke of Aosta who ended up as Viceroy of Africa Orientale. The corps is probably named after the WWI general. He was the more recent Emanuele Filiberto and no doubt better known. How archaic would it have been to name a unit after someone from four centuries past. Even if the Testa di ferro was also a famous soldier. There's a great equestrian statue of the Duke in Torino, the Caval d'brons I believe. He's in a beautiful suit of full armor with sword raised. On his horse's bridle can be seen the Savoia motto, FERT.

I know, wildly off topic. Don't jump on me.

Anthony DeChristopher

Well, Prince Eugene of Savoy was over two centuries back at the time (3 now) and well thought of by both the Italians and Germans, as you pointed out.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Gendarme)
Post #: 2257
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/24/2013 8:44:43 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 19432
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Please see first drafts of two Polish units. Firstly the Warsaw Militia counter:

[2798 Polish Warsaw Militia]
.P This counter is used to provide a high level look at the Polish Army in 1939.
.P At the outbreak of the Second World War, the Polish Army contained the
following units:
.P
.B 30 infantry divisions
.B 11 cavalry brigades
.B 2 motorised brigades
.B sundry artillery, tank, engineer and signal units.
.P
.P In addition to this were the men of the Frontier Defence Corps (KOP) (who were
responsible for watching over Poland's Eastern border with the Soviet Union) and
the National Defence, which consisted of reservists and men below the age of
conscription.
.P In 1939 the Polish Army nominally consisted of 1 million men. However, in
order to bring the army up to strength, a process of mobilisation needed to be
completed. When the Germans invaded Poland on the 1st September 1939 the actual
number of men under arms was around 370,000.
.P As part of the mobilisation process, not only would existing units be brought
up to strength, but a further 9 infantry divisions would be fielded (Please see
counter 2788 - The Polish 1st Infantry Division - for a closer look at the
strength of a 1939 Polish infantry division).
.P In 1939 the Polish army was lacking in both tanks and motorised units
generally. It contained 313 light tanks and 634 armoured cars and reconnaissance
carriers. Money and resources had at least been spent on anti-aircraft and anti-
tank weapons which were relatively modern.
.P So in the later 1930's, with Adolf Hitler's Germany looking menacingly toward
Poland, how was the Polish army to defend the country? It was obvious to most
that the Poles could not hope to defeat the German army. Therefore what the army
had to do was to try and hold the invaders long enough to allow Poland's allies
time to mobilise and attack Germany in the West, thus forcing Germany into a
two-front war that would ultimately spell her doom.
.P In executing this plan, the Poles were faced with two choices. One option was
for the plan that they ultimately adopted; a forward defence of the border areas.
Provided the various army groups could hold the Germans long enough, the Poles
would have time to complete their mobilisation plans and reinforce the border
armies with the reserve armies.
.P The second option was for the Poles to make best use of the natural obstacles
provided by the Vistula and San rivers. The problem with this plan was that it
meant giving up large parts of western Poland to the invaders. This would have
serious consequences for both mobilisation and for the ability of Poland to
continue the war due to the industrial areas that would need to be abandoned.
For these reasons a border defence was adopted.
.P Outlined below are the seven army formations that the Polish Army fielded
initially, together with the reserve formations (planned and actual). In the bend
of the Vistula river were three armies:
.B Pomorze Army (see counter 2792 - Pomorze Infantry Army)
.B Poznan Army (see counter 2793 - Poznan Infantry Army)
.B Lodz Army (there is no specific counter for this army and so its main
constituents are listed below):
.P
.B Lodz Army (commanded by Lt-General Juliusz Rommel)
.B 2nd Legions Infantry Division
.B 10th Infantry Division
.B 28th Infantry Division
.B Kresowa Cavalry Brigade
.B Wolynska Cavalry Brigade (part of Group Piotrkow)
.B 30th Infantry Division (part of Group Piotrkow)
.B Plus supporting artillery, engineer and National Defence troops.
.P Note: some sources have the 22nd Mountain Division attached to the Lodz Army,
however this unit never fought with this army.
.P
.P In the south of the country were two armies:
.B Krakow Army (see counter 2790 - Krakow Infantry Army)
.B Karpaty Army (see counter 2789 - Karpaty Infantry Army)
.P
.P In the north was a sixth army:
.B Modlin Army (see counter 2791 - Modlin Infantry Army)
.P
.P In support of these six armies was a reserve army and a number of independent
operational groups:
.B Prusy Army (see counter 2794 - Prusy Infantry Army) - this reserve formation
was deployed behind the left wing of the Lodz Army.
.B Narew Group (see counter 2799 - Narew Infantry Corps) - this formation was
deployed on the right flank of the Modlin Army, covering German units in East
Prussia.
.B Kutno Group (see counter 2800 - Kutno Mechanised Corps) - a reserve formation
deployed in support of the Pomorze and Poznan Armies
.B Tarnow Group (see counter 2795 - Tarnow Cavalry Corps) - a reserve formation
deployed in support of the Krakow and Karpaty Armies.
.B Wyszkow Group (there is no specific counter for this unit so its main
constituents are listed below). The Group was deployed behind the Modlin Army and
the Narew Group in order to support those forces in the defence of Warsaw.
.P
.B Wyszkow Group (commanded by Major-General Wincenty Kowalski)
.B 1st Legions Infantry Division
.B 35th Infantry Division
.B 41st Infantry Division
.P
.P During the Battle for Poland, a number of additional formations were created
from reserves and survivors from previously destroyed formations. The formations
and their composition will be explained in the appropriate write-ups.
.P This then was how the Polish Army lined up to face the German Army in
September 1939. The fighting effectively lasted just less than a month (Warsaw
fell on the 29th September, but the final battle was not fought until the 6th
October) before, stabbed in the back by the Soviets, and with no direct
assistance coming from the Western Allies, the Polish surrendered. For a summary
of the campaign please see counter 2797 - Lodz Militia.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/24/2013 8:46:53 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2258
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/24/2013 8:49:56 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 19432
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
[2788 Polish 1st Infantry Division]
.P The 1st Polish Infantry Division was officially titled the 1st Legions
Infantry Division. Polish Army infantry divisions 1-3 inclusive were given
"Legion" status, although curiously this does not mean that they were any better
equipped or manned than any other regular infantry division. The Legion
designation was a reference to the Polish Legions that fought for the Austro-
Hungarian Army in World War I and for the newly formed Polish state against the
Soviets in the 1920's.
.P A 1939 Polish Infantry Division had at its core three infantry regiments, each
consisting of three battalions. The 1st Polish Infantry consisted of the
following regiments:
.P
.B 1st Legions Infantry Regiment
.B 5th Legions Infantry Regiment
.B 6th Legions Infantry Regiment
.B Note: each infantry regiment contained a Reconnaissance and an anti-tank
company.
.P In addition to the Infantry component, a Polish division also contained:
.P
.B A cavalry squadron
.B A bicycle company (31st)
.B A Light Artillery Regiment (1st Legions)
.B A Heavy Artillery Detachment (1st)
.B An Anti-aircraft battery (1st motorized)
.B A Heavy machine-gun company (31st)
.B An Engineer Battalion (1st)
.B A Telephone and Radio Company
.P
.P Note: the Polish armies in exile, at various times operating with the British,
French and Russian armies, were organised and equipped as per their host army.
.P The 1st Legions Infantry Division - Dywizja Piechoty Legionow (1DPL) was
commanded by Major-General Wincenty Kowalski, The 1DPL was only partially
mobilised when the Germans invaded Poland on 1st September 1939. The division was
attached to the Wyszkow Operational Group which was deployed north of Warsaw (see
counter 2798 - Warsaw Militia).
.P The division saw almost continuous action from the 4th September until it was
effectively destroyed on the 22nd (see counter 2791 Modlin Infantry Army and
2799 Narew Infantry Corps).

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2259
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/24/2013 1:26:55 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1660
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
[2788 Polish 1st Infantry Division]
.P The 1st Polish Infantry Division was officially titled the 1st Legions
Infantry Division. Polish Army infantry divisions 1-3 inclusive were given
"Legion" status, although curiously this does not mean that they were any better
equipped or manned than any other regular infantry division. The Legion
designation was a reference to the Polish Legions that fought for the Austro-
Hungarian Army in World War I and for the newly formed Polish state against the
Soviets in the 1920's.
.P A 1939 Polish Infantry Division had at its core three infantry regiments, each
consisting of three battalions. The 1st Polish Infantry consisted of the
following regiments:
.P
.B 1st Legions Infantry Regiment
.B 5th Legions Infantry Regiment
.B 6th Legions Infantry Regiment
.B Note: each infantry regiment contained a Reconnaissance and an anti-tank
company.
.P In addition to the Infantry component, the division also contained:
.P
.B A organic cavalry squadron
.B A bicycle company (31st)
.B A Light Artillery Regiment (1st Legions)
.B A Heavy Artillery Detachment (1st)
.B An Anti-aircraft battery (1st motorized)
.B A Heavy machine-gun company (31st)
.B An Engineer Battalion (1st)
.B A Telephone and Radio Company
.P
.P Note: the Polish armies in exile, at various times operating with the British,
French and Russian armies, were organised and equipped as per their host army.
.P The 1st Legions Infantry Division - Dywizja Piechoty Legionow (1DPL) was
commanded by Major-General Wincenty Kowalski, The 1DPL was only partially
mobilised when the Germans invaded Poland on 1st September 1939. The division was
attached to the Wyszkow Operational Group, which was deployed north of Warsaw (see
counter 2798 - Warsaw Militia).
.P The division saw almost continuous action from the 4th September until it was
effectively destroyed on the 22nd (see counter 2791 Modlin Infantry Army and
2799 Narew Infantry Corps).


NOTE: In 1939 I can find no reference to Anti-tank units attached to 1DPL infantry regiments or Radio units directly attached to 1DPL.




Just for fun I researched 1DPL.

quote:

The 1st Polish Infantry Division was officially titled the 1st Legions Infantry Division (Polish: 1. Dywizja Piechoty Legionów abbreviated 1DPL).

The Polish Army 1st, 2nd, and 3rf infantry divisions were given "Legion" status. The Legion designation was a reference to the Polish Legions that fought for the Austro-Hungarian Army in World War I and for the newly formed Polish state against the Soviets in the 1920's.

The 1DPL consisted of the following:
1st Legions Infantry Regiment,
5th Legions Infantry Regiment,
6th Legions Infantry Regiment,
(Each Infantry Regiment consisted of a headquarters and three infantry battalions.)

1st Legions Light Artillery Regiment
1st Heavy Artillery Detachment

An organic cavalry squadron,
31st bicycle company,
1st motorized Anti-aircraft battery,
31st Heavy machine-gun company (horse-drawn),
1st Engineer Battalion,
1st Signals Company (telephone).

1939
In March the 1DPL was partially mobilized under the command of Major-General Wincenty Kowalski. Where it was deployed north of Warsaw Under Operational Group Wyszków to shield the northern approaches to Warsaw from German assault from East Prussia.

Germany invaded Poland on September 1 and on September 4 the 1DPL completed its mobilization and came into contact with the Germans in the forests around Długosiodło to the north of Warsaw. 1DPL managed to retain most of its combat effectiveness whike delaying the German forces in a number of skirmishes and battles along the Narew river and near the town of Różan.

September 7 after the battle for Pułtusk where the Poles were outnumbered 3 to 1 the 1DPL was ordered to retreat southwards. Durring the retreat Major-General Kowalski managed not only to withdraw most of his forces, but also to rally the defeated forces of Modlin Army and Independent Operational Group Narew crowded near the bridge in Wyszków. Thanks to Kowalski's actions, 2 divisions and (33rd Infantry and 41st Infantry), as well as the Mazowiecka Cavalry Brigade were not only rallied but also safely transported to the other side of the Bug River. 1DPL then withdrew to the area between Wyszków and Kamieńczyk, and successfuly defened the line there. 1DPL sfter being reinforced by 98th Heavy Artillery Detachment and 61st Light Artillery Detachment repelled a German assault on Brańszczyk. 1DPL started to slowly move southwards while performing delaying actions and keeping its combat readiness almost intact.

September 11 the German forces seized the town of Kałuszyn cutting off 1DPL.

September 13 1DPL brakes through enemy lines and retaks the city in what became known as the battle of Kałuszyn.

Despite heavy losses on the Polish side, Major-General Kowalski managed to yet again rally a large part of his forces and continued his move towards Włodawa, Lublin and Lwów.

September 18 and 19th near Chełm 1DPL (then reduced to merely a regiment after two weeks of constant fights against numerically and technically superior enemy) is reorganized and reinforced with an improvised detachment under Stanisław Tatar. From there 1DPL proceeded towards Tomaszów Lubelski.

September 21 German panzers and the German 8th Infantry Division successfuly break through the Polish lines at Falków.

September 22 at the battle of Falków, 1DPL arrived at Tomaszów Lubelski. Outnumbered, lacking artillery, supplies, food and reduced to not more than a regiment.

September 23 the assault on Tarnawatka by 1DPL was stopped and wounded Major-General Kowalski was taken prisoner of war by the Germans.

The Germans nicknamed 1DPL the Iron division.

Note: the Polish armies in exile, at various times operating with the British, French, and Russian armies, were organized and equipped as per their host army.




_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2260
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/24/2013 1:34:51 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1660
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
Please see first drafts of two Polish units. Firstly the Warsaw Militia counter:

[2798 Polish Warsaw Militia]
.P This counter is used to provide a high level look at the Polish Army in 1939.
.P At the outbreak of the Second World War, the Polish Army contained the
following units:
.P
.B 30 infantry divisions
.B 11 cavalry brigades
.B 2 motorised brigades
.B sundry artillery, tank, engineer and signal units.
.P
.P In addition to this were the men of the Frontier Defence Corps (KOP) (who were
responsible for watching over Poland's Eastern border with the Soviet Union) and
the National Defence, which consisted of reservists and men below the age of
conscription.
.P In 1939 the Polish Army nominally consisted of 1 million men. However, in
order to bring the army up to strength, a process of mobilisation needed to be
completed. When the Germans invaded Poland on the 1st September 1939 the actual
number of men under arms was around 370,000.
.P As part of the mobilisation process, not only would existing units be brought
up to strength, but a further 9 infantry divisions would be fielded (Please see
counter 2788 - The Polish 1st Infantry Division - for a closer look at the
strength of a 1939 Polish infantry division).
.P In 1939 the Polish army was lacking in both tanks and motorised units
generally. It contained 313 light tanks and 634 armoured cars and reconnaissance
carriers. Money and resources had at least been spent on anti-aircraft and anti-
tank weapons, which were relatively modern.
.P So in the later 1930's, with Adolf Hitler's Germany looking menacingly toward
Poland, how was the Polish army to defend the country? It was obvious to most
that the Poles could not hope to defeat the German army. Therefore what the army
had to do was to try and hold the invaders long enough to allow Poland's allies
time to mobilise and attack Germany in the West, thus forcing Germany into a
two-front war that would ultimately spell her doom.
.P In executing this plan, the Poles were faced with two choices. One option was
for the plan that they ultimately adopted; a forward defence of the border areas.
Provided the various army groups could hold the Germans long enough, the Poles
would have time to complete their mobilisation plans and reinforce the border
armies with the reserve armies.
.P The second option was for the Poles to make best use of the natural obstacles
provided by the Vistula and San rivers. The problem with this plan was that it
meant giving up large parts of western Poland to the invaders. This would have
serious consequences for both mobilisation and for the ability of Poland to
continue the war due to the industrial areas that would need to be abandoned.
For these reasons a border defence was adopted.
.P Outlined below are the seven army formations that the Polish Army fielded
initially, together with the reserve formations (planned and actual). In the bend
of the Vistula river were three armies:
.B Pomorze Army (see counter 2792 - Pomorze Infantry Army)
.B Poznan Army (see counter 2793 - Poznan Infantry Army)
.B Lodz Army (there is no specific counter for this army and so its main
constituents are listed below):
.P
.B Lodz Army (commanded by Lt-General Juliusz Rommel)
.B 2nd Legions Infantry Division
.B 10th Infantry Division
.B 28th Infantry Division
.B Kresowa Cavalry Brigade
.B Wolynska Cavalry Brigade (part of Group Piotrkow)
.B 30th Infantry Division (part of Group Piotrkow)
.B Plus supporting artillery, engineer and National Defence troops.
.P Note: some sources have the 22nd Mountain Division attached to the Lodz Army,
however this unit never fought with this army.
.P
.P In the south of the country were two armies:
.B Krakow Army (see counter 2790 - Krakow Infantry Army)
.B Karpaty Army (see counter 2789 - Karpaty Infantry Army)
.P
.P In the north was a sixth army:
.B Modlin Army (see counter 2791 - Modlin Infantry Army)
.P
.P In support of these six armies was a reserve army and a number of independent
operational groups:
.B Prusy Army (see counter 2794 - Prusy Infantry Army) - this reserve formation
was deployed behind the left wing of the Lodz Army.
.B Narew Group (see counter 2799 - Narew Infantry Corps) - this formation was
deployed on the right flank of the Modlin Army, covering German units in East
Prussia.
.B Kutno Group (see counter 2800 - Kutno Mechanised Corps) - a reserve formation
deployed in support of the Pomorze and Poznan Armies
.B Tarnow Group (see counter 2795 - Tarnow Cavalry Corps) - a reserve formation
deployed in support of the Krakow and Karpaty Armies.
.B Wyszkow Group (there is no specific counter for this unit so its main
constituents are listed below). The Group was deployed behind the Modlin Army and
the Narew Group in order to support those forces in the defence of Warsaw.
.P
.B Wyszkow Group (commanded by Major-General Wincenty Kowalski)
.B 1st Legions Infantry Division
.B 35th Infantry Division
.B 41st Infantry Division
.P
.P During the Battle for Poland, a number of additional formations were created
from reserves and survivors from previously destroyed formations. The formations
and their composition will be explained in the appropriate write-ups.
.P This then was how the Polish Army lined up to face the German Army in
September 1939. The fighting effectively lasted just less than a month (Warsaw
fell on the 29th September, but the final battle was not fought until the 6th
October) before, stabbed in the back by the Soviets, and with no direct
assistance coming from the Western Allies, the Polish surrendered. For a summary
of the campaign please see counter 2797 - Lodz Militia.


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2261
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/24/2013 1:51:14 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 19432
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

NOTE: In 1939 I can find no reference to Anti-tank units attached to 1DPL infantry regiments or Radio units directly attached to 1DPL.

warspite1

The source for this was the World War II Database (John Ellis).

Not sure what the "just for fun" bit is for - this seems to mix some of my work with Wiki??

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(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2262
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/25/2013 12:55:11 PM   
Jimm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

.P In addition to the Infantry component, the division also contained:
.P
.B A organic cavalry squadron




What is an "organic" cavalry squadron?!


(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2263
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/25/2013 1:19:08 PM   
Jimm


Posts: 581
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From: York, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

Just a note concerning Two Italian units:

The Eug Filiberto corps was printed incorrectly in the original game. I believe this corps is supposed to be named after a renaissance era Duke of Savoy and military hero, Emanuele Filiberto, who led King Philip II of Spain's army to victory over the French at Saint Quentin in 1557, bringing an end to the Italian wars and ending French involvement in Italy for some time. There is no Eug Filiberto in the House of Savoy (Italy's Royal Family from 1860), but there was of course Prince Eugene of Savoy who served the Habsburgs against the Turk and then the French armies of the Sun King in the late 1600s to early 1700s.

As a side note, both the Germans and Italians hold Eugene as a military hero, the Germans because he fought for Austria, the Italians because he was a Savoy. Hence, the KM has the CA Prinz Eugen and the RM has the Eugenio di Savoia.

Also, another unit is misspelled, I believe. It is the Mizza cavalry corps. There was a Nizza cavalry regiment, and that was probably what was intended when the counter was first created.

I know it will contradict original wif, but can we correct these misnamed Italian units for Matrix wif please? Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher


Hi Anthony, thanks for the input.

I've written both of these up. I've done Mizza as "Nizza" albeit that Nizza was only a regiment, as you say. The unit itself remains as "Mizza".

Also as you suggest, I based Eug Filiberto on Emanuele on the assumption that this unit is rooted in the actual “Emanuele Filiberto Testa di Ferro” Celere (motor/cavalry) division.

The Italian Wif units have a number of discrepancies and irregularities like these and I think were put together with a mind on "feel" rather than historical accuracy! In particular there are a lot of division or even smaller formations which seem to have been promoted to corps scale.

One I have not managed to bottom is the "Lucca" garrison corps- I've not found any reference to any "Lucca" unit that bears any interest or sigificance to base this one on. Any other Italian experts out there have any clues?





(in reply to Gendarme)
Post #: 2264
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/25/2013 1:23:05 PM   
Extraneous

 

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An organic unit is a military unit that is a permanent part of a larger unit and (usually) provides some specialized capability to that parent unit. For instance, the US Marine Corps incorporates its own aviation units (distinct from the US Air Force and US Navy) that provide it with fire support, electronic warfare, and transport.



Just for fun means I was bored and decided "just for fun" to do a little research,


My links:

The Polish military in 1939

Major General Wincenty Kowalski 1st Legions Infantry Division




Polish kb ppanc wz. 1935 (Rifle, Anti-tank model 1935)

Oh you're talking about the secret 3,500 "Surveillance equipment" (a.k.a. Uruguay (kb Urugwaj) (kb Ur)) later to be known as the Polish Karabin przeciwpancerny wzór 35, German "Panzerbüchse 35 (polnisch)" (abbreviated "PzB 35(p)"), and Italian "Fucile Contracarro 35(P)" anti-tank rifle.

But these were supposed to be assigned at platoon level not at regiment level. Could you supply your link?



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(in reply to Jimm)
Post #: 2265
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/25/2013 1:49:35 PM   
Jimm


Posts: 581
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From: York, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

An organic unit is a military unit that is a permanent part of a larger unit and (usually) provides some specialized capability to that parent unit. For instance, the US Marine Corps incorporates its own aviation units (distinct from the US Air Force and US Navy) that provide it with fire support, electronic warfare, and transport.



Hmm, thus spake wikipedia.


quote:

.P In addition to the Infantry component, the division also contained:
.P
.B A organic cavalry squadron
.B A bicycle company (31st)
.B A Light Artillery Regiment (1st Legions)
.B A Heavy Artillery Detachment (1st)
.B An Anti-aircraft battery (1st motorized)
.B A Heavy machine-gun company (31st)
.B An Engineer Battalion (1st)
.B A Telephone and Radio Company



Surely you could argue that any of the other non-infantry elements, eg artillery, anti air, engineers etc listed were also "organic". Therefore I would suggest that the edit is redundant and not necessary?

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2266
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/25/2013 6:17:52 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Yes the artillery, anti-air, engineers could be considered as organic infantry division support units. When the army in question has artillery, anti-air, engineer divisions and most infantry divisions do not have artillery, anti-air, engineer units attached as support units.

But the term organic as applied to the Cavalry squadron means it is not temporarily detached from a Cavalry division. It performs a special function reconnaissance.

Would you like me to respond to your "Lucca" garrison problem? Ask nicely and I'll give you some links to ponder.



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(in reply to Jimm)
Post #: 2267
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/25/2013 7:18:07 PM   
Jimm


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From: York, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Would you like me to respond to your "Lucca" garrison problem? Ask nicely and I'll give you some links to ponder.



It's an open request, Extra. I would of course value your input.



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2268
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/26/2013 9:49:28 AM   
Extraneous

 

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Italian Army divisions ~ BRIGATE NERE 36th "Benito Mussolini" - Lucca

16th CAVALLEGGERI DI LUCCA Motorized Cav Rgt

Lucca Brigade

Lucca Brigade:
163rd Infantry Regiment
164th Infantry Regiment
48th CCNN Legion
48th CCNN Battalion

12 August 1944 at Sant'Anna di Stazzema, Lucca

The published order by the German Commandant, General Kesselring, was that for every German killed by partisans 10 Italians selected at random would be shot. Here is just a flavour of many similar public notices: German 5 Corps, 1 S, No. 391, of 9 August 1944: '(c) If crimes of outstanding violence are committed, especially against German soldiers, an appropriate number of hostages will be hanged. In such cases the whole population of the place will be assembled to witness the executions. After the bodies have been left hanging for 12 hours, the public will be ordered to bury them without ceremony and without the assistance of any priest.' (see pages 316-327 of 'War In Italy 1943-1945 — A Brutal Story' by Richard Lamb (published by John Murray, 1993) for the full text of this order and many other chilling documents).
Most certainly these were not empty threats, mere bluff and bluster. On 12 August 1944 at Sant'Anna di Stazzema, Lucca, 560 civilians were massacred and on 26 September 31 men were publicly hanged at Bassano del Grappa. These are but two out of many such brutal incidents.



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(in reply to Jimm)
Post #: 2269
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/26/2013 10:06:30 AM   
Extraneous

 

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2Ş GUERRA MONDIALE - REGIO ESERCITO (2nd WORLD WAR-ROYAL ARMY)


LE SEDI DEI REPARTI NEL 1940 (DEPARTMENTAL HEADQUARTERS in 1940)

GLI ISTITUTI MILITARI (MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS)

Scuola Allievi Ufficiali di Complemento di Artiglieria (Lucca) (School Students Complement of artillery officers (Lucca))


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(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2270
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/26/2013 12:24:51 PM   
Jimm


Posts: 581
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From: York, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Italian Army divisions ~ BRIGATE NERE 36th "Benito Mussolini" - Lucca

16th CAVALLEGGERI DI LUCCA Motorized Cav Rgt

Lucca Brigade

Lucca Brigade:
163rd Infantry Regiment
164th Infantry Regiment
48th CCNN Legion
48th CCNN Battalion

12 August 1944 at Sant'Anna di Stazzema, Lucca

The published order by the German Commandant, General Kesselring, was that for every German killed by partisans 10 Italians selected at random would be shot. Here is just a flavour of many similar public notices: German 5 Corps, 1 S, No. 391, of 9 August 1944: '(c) If crimes of outstanding violence are committed, especially against German soldiers, an appropriate number of hostages will be hanged. In such cases the whole population of the place will be assembled to witness the executions. After the bodies have been left hanging for 12 hours, the public will be ordered to bury them without ceremony and without the assistance of any priest.' (see pages 316-327 of 'War In Italy 1943-1945 — A Brutal Story' by Richard Lamb (published by John Murray, 1993) for the full text of this order and many other chilling documents).
Most certainly these were not empty threats, mere bluff and bluster. On 12 August 1944 at Sant'Anna di Stazzema, Lucca, 560 civilians were massacred and on 26 September 31 men were publicly hanged at Bassano del Grappa. These are but two out of many such brutal incidents.



Thanks Extraneous. A couple of these are interesting links I hadn't seen before.

On initial glance the Brigate Nera unit fits quite well. I was aware of the motorised cav regiment but didn't really think that it tallied with a garrison corps.
The "Lucca Brigade" looks a bit suspect as this is from a WW1 oob and at first check through I cant see the regiments in the 1940 list- although they may have reformed later of course.

The Lucca massacre is also useful.

I'll do some more reading through.




(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2271
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/26/2013 2:39:28 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1660
Joined: 6/14/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jimm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Italian Army divisions ~ BRIGATE NERE 36th "Benito Mussolini" - Lucca

16th CAVALLEGGERI DI LUCCA Motorized Cav Rgt

Lucca Brigade

Lucca Brigade:
163rd Infantry Regiment
164th Infantry Regiment
48th CCNN Legion
48th CCNN Battalion

12 August 1944 at Sant'Anna di Stazzema, Lucca

The published order by the German Commandant, General Kesselring, was that for every German killed by partisans 10 Italians selected at random would be shot. Here is just a flavour of many similar public notices: German 5 Corps, 1 S, No. 391, of 9 August 1944: '(c) If crimes of outstanding violence are committed, especially against German soldiers, an appropriate number of hostages will be hanged. In such cases the whole population of the place will be assembled to witness the executions. After the bodies have been left hanging for 12 hours, the public will be ordered to bury them without ceremony and without the assistance of any priest.' (see pages 316-327 of 'War In Italy 1943-1945 — A Brutal Story' by Richard Lamb (published by John Murray, 1993) for the full text of this order and many other chilling documents).
Most certainly these were not empty threats, mere bluff and bluster. On 12 August 1944 at Sant'Anna di Stazzema, Lucca, 560 civilians were massacred and on 26 September 31 men were publicly hanged at Bassano del Grappa. These are but two out of many such brutal incidents.



Thanks Extraneous. A couple of these are interesting links I hadn't seen before.

On initial glance the Brigate Nera unit fits quite well. I was aware of the motorised cav regiment but didn't really think that it tallied with a garrison corps.
The "Lucca Brigade" looks a bit suspect as this is from a WW1 oob and at first check through I cant see the regiments in the 1940 list- although they may have reformed later of course.

The Lucca massacre is also useful.

I'll do some more reading through.




Look at the "Lucca Brigade" again. It is from the Organization of Italian Independent Brigades 1939-1943.

The CCNN (Blackshirt) unit shows it is a WW2 OOB.

Camicie Nere, CCNN Legions (Blackshirts) Page 3

Camicie Nere, CCNN Legions (Blackshirts) Page 4



< Message edited by Extraneous -- 2/26/2013 2:55:19 PM >


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(in reply to Jimm)
Post #: 2272
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/26/2013 2:55:38 PM   
Gendarme

 

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Hey Jmm,

I also forgot there was the Celere division named after Testa di Ferro. I haven't studied this material in a long while. So it does indeed look like the wif mot corps is just an extension of the then-existing Italian division, based on wif naming other corps after what were only divisions, like Folgore or Libia (which were infantry divs btw, not mech). The designers did it for flavor. Like adding fresh basil to a good marinara sauce...

Anthony DeChristopher

(in reply to Jimm)
Post #: 2273
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 2/26/2013 3:36:23 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Joined: 6/14/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

Hey Jmm,

I also forgot there was the Celere division named after Testa di Ferro. I haven't studied this material in a long while. So it does indeed look like the wif mot corps is just an extension of the then-existing Italian division, based on wif naming other corps after what were only divisions, like Folgore or Libia (which were infantry divs btw, not mech). The designers did it for flavor. Like adding fresh basil to a good marinara sauce...

Anthony DeChristopher



Gruppo Div. Libiche

September 13-16 1940
Gruppo Divisione Libiche (Liban Division Group)
1^ Divisione Libica (1st Libian Division)
2^ Divisione Libica (2nd Libian Division)

Battle of Sidi Barrani:
Gruppo Divisione Libiche (Liban Division Group)
1^ Divisione Libica (1st Libian Division)
2^ Divisione Libica (2nd Libian Division)
4^ Divisione CC.NN. ~ "3 Gennaio" (4th Blackshirt Division ~ 3rd January)


185^ Divisione Paracadutisti ~ Folgore (185th Parachute division ~ Thunderbolt)



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(in reply to Gendarme)
Post #: 2274
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/16/2013 7:37:55 AM   
warspite1


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Could game grognards please check what I have said is correct re the Commonwealth control?

[2801 Polish Guards Armoured Army]
.P This counter, available from 1943, represents the Polish armies-in-exile that
fought for the Allies following the defeat of Poland.
.P Polish troops fought with both the Western Allies and the Soviet Union during
World War II, although this counter is available to the United Kingdom only in
World In Flames (Poland is a minor country controlled by the Commonwealth).
.P After the fall of Poland, a number of Poles were able to escape to France.
Plans were put in place to create two Polish corps that would be equipped by the
French and be placed under their command. These plans were incomplete by the time
the Germans invaded France in May 1940. However Polish units that were ready
fought in the French Campaign and also the equally ill-fated Norwegian Campaign,
where they assisted the capture of the port of Narvik.
.P Following the defeat of France, around 20,000 Poles escaped to the United
Kingdom where they were incorporated within the British Army command structure in
September 1940 as the Polish 1st Corps.
.P A second Polish Corps was created in the Middle East in 1943, mostly from Poles that had been
placed in labour camps in the Soviet Union, but who were later released following
the German invasion of Russia in June 1941. One of the core components of the 2nd
Corps was the 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division. This division was built up around
the Polish Independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade, a unit that had been formed
in 1940 in French controlled Syria as part of the Polish Army in France. The
Carpathian Brigade gave sterling service with the British Army in North Africa -
including the siege of Tobruk.
.P Polish units fought alongside their British and Commonwealth allies in all the
major western theatres - North Africa and Italy (2nd Corps) and France (1st
Corps). For the campaign in northwest Europe, the 1st Armoured Division fought as
part of the 2nd Canadian Army, while the 1st Independent Parachute Brigade was
part of the First Allied Airborne Army, and took part in the Arnhem operation.
.P The major units of each of the corps was as follows:
.B 1st Corps - commanded by Lt-General Mieczyslaw Boruta-Spiechowicz (1943 until
1945 and thereafter by Lt-General Stanislaw Maczek)
.B 1st Armoured Division
.B 1st Independent Parchute Brigade
.B 16th Independent Armoured Brigade.
.P
.B 2nd Corps - commanded by Lt-General Wladyslaw Anders
.B 2nd Armoured Brigade
.B 3rd Carpathian Infantry Division
.B 5th Kresowa Infantry Division

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2275
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/16/2013 1:58:19 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1660
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Could game grognards please check what I have said is correct re the Commonwealth control?

[2801 Polish Guards Armoured Army]
.P This counter, available from 1943, represents the Polish armies-in-exile that
fought for the Allies following the defeat of Poland.
.P Polish troops fought with both the Western Allies and the Soviet Union during
World War II, although this counter is available to the United Kingdom only in
World In Flames (Poland is a minor country controlled by the Commonwealth).
.P After the fall of Poland, a number of Poles were able to escape to France.
Plans were put in place to create two Polish corps that would be equipped by the
French and be placed under their command. These plans were incomplete by the time
the Germans invaded France in May 1940. However Polish units that were ready
fought in the French Campaign and also the equally ill-fated Norwegian Campaign,
where they assisted the capture of the port of Narvik.
.P Following the defeat of France, around 20,000 Poles escaped to the United
Kingdom where they were incorporated within the British Army command structure in
September 1940 as the Polish 1st Corps.
.P A second Polish Corps was created in the Middle East in 1943, mostly from Poles that had been
placed in labour camps in the Soviet Union, but who were later released following
the German invasion of Russia in June 1941. One of the core components of the 2nd
Corps was the 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division. This division was built up around
the Polish Independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade, a unit that had been formed
in 1940 in French controlled Syria as part of the Polish Army in France. The
Carpathian Brigade gave sterling service with the British Army in North Africa -
including the siege of Tobruk.
.P Polish units fought alongside their British and Commonwealth allies in all the
major western theatres - North Africa and Italy (2nd Corps) and France (1st
Corps). For the campaign in northwest Europe, the 1st Armoured Division fought as
part of the 2nd Canadian Army, while the 1st Independent Parachute Brigade was
part of the First Allied Airborne Army, and took part in the Arnhem operation.
.P The major units of each of the corps was as follows:
.B 1st Corps - commanded by Lt-General Mieczyslaw Boruta-Spiechowicz (1943 until
1945 and thereafter by Lt-General Stanislaw Maczek)
.B 1st Armoured Division
.B 1st Independent Parchute Brigade
.B 16th Independent Armoured Brigade.
.P
.B 2nd Corps - commanded by Lt-General Wladyslaw Anders
.B 2nd Armoured Brigade
.B 3rd Carpathian Infantry Division
.B 5th Kresowa Infantry Division


Although there are no spelling or grammatical errors I do question your sources.



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University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2276
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/16/2013 2:37:28 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 19432
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Could game grognards please check what I have said is correct re the Commonwealth control?

[2801 Polish Guards Armoured Army]
.P This counter, available from 1943, represents the Polish armies-in-exile that
fought for the Allies following the defeat of Poland.
.P Polish troops fought with both the Western Allies and the Soviet Union during
World War II, although this counter is available to the United Kingdom only in
World In Flames (Poland is a minor country controlled by the Commonwealth).
.P After the fall of Poland, a number of Poles were able to escape to France.
Plans were put in place to create two Polish corps that would be equipped by the
French and be placed under their command. These plans were incomplete by the time
the Germans invaded France in May 1940. However Polish units that were ready
fought in the French Campaign and also the equally ill-fated Norwegian Campaign,
where they assisted the capture of the port of Narvik.
.P Following the defeat of France, around 20,000 Poles escaped to the United
Kingdom where they were incorporated within the British Army command structure in
September 1940 as the Polish 1st Corps.
.P A second Polish Corps was created in the Middle East in 1943, mostly from Poles that had been
placed in labour camps in the Soviet Union, but who were later released following
the German invasion of Russia in June 1941. One of the core components of the 2nd
Corps was the 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division. This division was built up around
the Polish Independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade, a unit that had been formed
in 1940 in French controlled Syria as part of the Polish Army in France. The
Carpathian Brigade gave sterling service with the British Army in North Africa -
including the siege of Tobruk.
.P Polish units fought alongside their British and Commonwealth allies in all the
major western theatres - North Africa and Italy (2nd Corps) and France (1st
Corps). For the campaign in northwest Europe, the 1st Armoured Division fought as
part of the 2nd Canadian Army, while the 1st Independent Parachute Brigade was
part of the First Allied Airborne Army, and took part in the Arnhem operation.
.P The major units of each of the corps was as follows:
.B 1st Corps - commanded by Lt-General Mieczyslaw Boruta-Spiechowicz (1943 until
1945 and thereafter by Lt-General Stanislaw Maczek)
.B 1st Armoured Division
.B 1st Independent Parchute Brigade
.B 16th Independent Armoured Brigade.
.P
.B 2nd Corps - commanded by Lt-General Wladyslaw Anders
.B 2nd Armoured Brigade
.B 3rd Carpathian Infantry Division
.B 5th Kresowa Infantry Division


Although there are no spelling or grammatical errors I do question your sources.


warspite1

Please question away - that is what these are posted for; to ensure they are right.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty - Horatio Nelson 1805.




(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2277
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/16/2013 10:15:55 PM   
JeffK


Posts: 5194
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From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gendarme

Just a note concerning Two Italian units:

The Eug Filiberto corps was printed incorrectly in the original game. I believe this corps is supposed to be named after a renaissance era Duke of Savoy and military hero, Emanuele Filiberto, who led King Philip II of Spain's army to victory over the French at Saint Quentin in 1557, bringing an end to the Italian wars and ending French involvement in Italy for some time. There is no Eug Filiberto in the House of Savoy (Italy's Royal Family from 1860), but there was of course Prince Eugene of Savoy who served the Habsburgs against the Turk and then the French armies of the Sun King in the late 1600s to early 1700s.

As a side note, both the Germans and Italians hold Eugene as a military hero, the Germans because he fought for Austria, the Italians because he was a Savoy. Hence, the KM has the CA Prinz Eugen and the RM has the Eugenio di Savoia.

Also, another unit is misspelled, I believe. It is the Mizza cavalry corps. There was a Nizza cavalry regiment, and that was probably what was intended when the counter was first created.

I know it will contradict original wif, but can we correct these misnamed Italian units for Matrix wif please? Thanks.

Anthony DeChristopher


Filiberto corps could have been named after Prince Emanuele Filiberto, Duke of Aosta who led the Italian Third Army (Armata invitta ~ "undefeated army") in WWI.

Prince Emanuele Filiberto, Duke of Aosta was made a Maresciallo d'Italia (Marshal of Italy) by Benito Mussolini in 1926.

And you are correct about Mizza/Nizza and it was decided to ask Harry Roland about this but there have been no post on any results.

Keep up the good work Gendarme



Is there any historical basis to these units?

I find no reference to a NIZZA/MIZZA Cavalry Corps, but the name given to 1st Cavalry Rgt/ 2nd Cavalry Division is NIZZA.

Same for Filiberto corps, no historical reference but there is a 2e Emanuele Filiberto Testa di Ferro Celere (Cavalry) Division

(Italian Army Order of Battle edited by W Victor Madeja)

As I read further I see Jimm also questioned the naming of these Corps.
IMVHO, if you want to be historical keep to the facts, dont use fantasy naming of units.

< Message edited by JeffK -- 3/16/2013 10:23:38 PM >


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(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2278
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/16/2013 10:18:52 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
Poland

Polish Army in the UK and the 1st Polish Corps

Polish Army in the UK - February 1942

Stanisław Anders Polish Army in the East and the 2nd Polish Corps

Polish Army in the East - March 1943


16th Polish Independent Armoured Brigade

1940 - October 1942 part of 1st Polish Corps
October 1942 - September 1943 part of 1st Polish Armoured Division
September 1943 - October 1943 merged with 10th Polish Armoured Brigade to form 10/16 Polish Armoured Brigade
November 1943 recreated 16th Polish Independent Armoured Brigade.


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(in reply to JeffK)
Post #: 2279
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 3/16/2013 10:40:53 PM   
JeffK


Posts: 5194
Joined: 1/26/2005
From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Could game grognards please check what I have said is correct re the Commonwealth control?

[2801 Polish Guards Armoured Army]
.P This counter, available from 1943, represents the Polish armies-in-exile that
fought for the Allies following the defeat of Poland.
.P Polish troops fought with both the Western Allies and the Soviet Union during
World War II, although this counter is available to the United Kingdom only in
World In Flames (Poland is a minor country controlled by the Commonwealth).
.P After the fall of Poland, a number of Poles were able to escape to France.
Plans were put in place to create two Polish corps that would be equipped by the
French and be placed under their command. These plans were incomplete by the time
the Germans invaded France in May 1940. However Polish units that were ready
fought in the French Campaign and also the equally ill-fated Norwegian Campaign,
where they assisted the capture of the port of Narvik.
.P Following the defeat of France, around 20,000 Poles escaped to the United
Kingdom where they were incorporated within the British Army command structure in
September 1940 as the Polish 1st Corps.
.P A second Polish Corps was created in the Middle East in 1943, mostly from Poles that had been
placed in labour camps in the Soviet Union, but who were later released following
the German invasion of Russia in June 1941. One of the core components of the 2nd
Corps was the 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division. This division was built up around
the Polish Independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade, a unit that had been formed
in 1940 in French controlled Syria as part of the Polish Army in France. The
Carpathian Brigade gave sterling service with the British Army in North Africa -
including the siege of Tobruk.
.P Polish units fought alongside their British and Commonwealth allies in all the
major western theatres - North Africa and Italy (2nd Corps) and France (1st
Corps). For the campaign in northwest Europe, the 1st Armoured Division fought as
part of the 2nd Canadian Army, while the 1st Independent Parachute Brigade was
part of the First Allied Airborne Army, and took part in the Arnhem operation.
.P The major units of each of the corps was as follows:
.B 1st Corps - commanded by Lt-General Mieczyslaw Boruta-Spiechowicz (1943 until
1945 and thereafter by Lt-General Stanislaw Maczek)
.B 1st Armoured Division
.B 1st Independent Parchute Brigade
.B 16th Independent Armoured Brigade.
.P
.B 2nd Corps - commanded by Lt-General Wladyslaw Anders
.B 2nd Armoured Brigade
.B 3rd Carpathian Infantry Division
.B 5th Kresowa Infantry Division

? Where does the Guards appelation come from?
I am unsure of the 16th Armoured Bde, it may have been formed as a training unit or been just a cadre, there was also a 2nd Polish "Grenadier" Division formed but disbanded around DDay. (Nafziger quotes a 1st Polish Grenadier Armoured Division as the Orkney Garrison in June 44!)
For 3rd & 5th Divs, it it worth a comment that they were raised with only 2 Bdes each but formed a 3rd Bde from captured POW? and that they were the captors of Monte Cassino.

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to warspite1)
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