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Defending the Reich - 9/1/2006 1:49:37 AM   
Fred98


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HPS's Defending the Reich was apparantly released today.

Anyone tried it?



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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/1/2006 7:31:26 AM   
Herrbear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

HPS's Defending the Reich was apparantly released today.

Anyone tried it?




Nothing listed about it on their website.

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/1/2006 7:37:02 AM   
Fred98


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Thats correct

try here:   www.wargamer.com



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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/1/2006 12:39:58 PM   
Hard Sarge


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I like the detail on the map
(but not sure how many people really want to use a road map as what they look at for a game)


other then that, I am not sure



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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/1/2006 2:31:26 PM   
Fred98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
(but not sure how many people really want to use a road map as what they look at for a game)



I have asked for authentic looking maps a few times but instead we get artistic representations.

The map in question looks modern instead of 1942 but otherwise looks like something commanders would use.



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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/1/2006 7:43:42 PM   
Hard Sarge


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Oh I agree

but for this scale of game, not sure if it is best or not

I want to retract that statement, I said it based on looking at a screen shot, and as we know, screens shots are not already what the game is about or even current, so I do not want to make that kind of statement about something

(with all the info I got and have been using, I can see how and why, and I am sure with our game we can argue left and right for this or that unit is in the game at the wrong time)

(in BoB, 111 Squadron was not Oper yet, but it was flying missions and making claims, but it was not ready to fly, so when do you add it to the OOB)

< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 9/7/2006 2:56:03 PM >


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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/1/2006 8:29:07 PM   
Nicholas Bell

 

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The map is a 1943 National Geographic map.

I've been playing the game PBEM for 2+ months and its a lot of fun. It's more a "beer and pretzels" game but does make the player deal with many of the same problems. Can't say much about the OOB, but I do know Sturm personally and he does know his stuff and how to research.

DTR and BTR are like apples and oranges though - even though there is overlap topically. BTR is much more detailed. DTR has a lot of abstractions - the biggest being one week's action being simulated in one nights mission. Just like AH Luftwaffe where 1 day's missions simulated 3 months of action.

I must admit I'm more the BTR, WitP type of gamer - but this is a lot of fun. It's got that "one more turn" and "okay, I goofed there how can I do it better next raid" effect when playing against the AI (which is pretty good!). And PBEM is better. Playing the German is more challenging for sure. In my current game I'm "Bomber Harris"

Oh, I must mention the game works flawlessly. At first the interface was less than what I had hoped, but it's all second nature now.

I didn't read the manual before playing, either. But I did reference later to figure out how to win

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/7/2006 8:39:44 AM   
Arkady


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aditionally, there is link to "official page"
http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/defreich/defreich.htm


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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/7/2006 8:41:11 AM   
Arkady


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btw 1 turn = 1 week is not my favourite...
waiting for Eagle Day


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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/7/2006 2:54:15 PM   
Hard Sarge


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Well, either way, I placed my order for it last week, and it is in the mail now :)

as you may guess, I already like the games we got to begin with, but I also like all aspects of the time and period 

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/12/2006 11:43:03 AM   
Hard Sarge


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WEll, I got it yesterday

overall, I do like it, some of it is too fast for me (may be my puter, I got a FLight simmer rig)

I think for the human GE there are too many losses due to landing

real HARD to get around the weekly turn idea, the system does seem able to handle the same thing on a dayly basics

it has good detail, but a little odd with the mixed Gruppen, since the all the Staffels fly together

also, seems to be a major lack of AF's

not tried the GB side yet



================Current Campaign Results===============
Total Area Destroyed to Date:  1565
Victory Points:  188
Bonus Points:  7
Penalty Points:  0
Total British Sorties to Date:  3505
Total British Losses to Date:  66
Current British Loss Rate: 1.9%
Total Luftwaffe Losses to Date:  77
************************ End of War Dairy Entry ************************

odd, as I have shot down more GB planes each turn (one turn was 5 GB to 11 GE) but looks like the game also counts planes that get written off once they on the ground, they don't show up in the lost lists for the air battles


III./NJG 2
    Maintenance Losses:  1 x badly damaged aircraft will never fly again
    Maintenance Report: No change
    Morale Lost:  3 points
    Experience: No change
I./NJG 3
    Maintenance Report: No change
    Morale Lost:  2 points
    Experience: No change
II./NJG 3
    Maintenance Losses:  4 x badly damaged aircraft will never fly again
    Maintenance Report: No change
    Morale Gained:  2 points
    Experience Gained:  5 points
III./NJG 3
    Maintenance Report:  2 x aircraft were repaired
    Morale: No change
    Experience: No change

******************************Raid J******************************
Target Name: Hannover           
Time Over Target: 2330 hrs
Target Damage:  85 acres
Raid Loss Rate:  6.6%
RAF Aircraft Destroyed:  16
   Flak:             4
   Nightfighter:  11
   Day Fighter:  0
   Landing:       1
RAF Aircraft Damaged:  20
   Flak:             6
   Nightfighter:  14
   Day Fighter:  0
   Landing:       0
German Aircraft Destroyed:  8
   Bomber Fire:   8
   Nightfighters:  0
German Aircraft Damaged:  19
   Bomber Fire:   19
   Nightfighters:  0
Nachtjagd Interceptions:  589
Nachtjagd Attacks:          120

overall, it is fun, still trying to learn the tricks



< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 9/12/2006 12:24:09 PM >


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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/12/2006 1:00:30 PM   
Hard Sarge


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================Current Campaign Results===============
Total Area Destroyed to Date:  2433
Victory Points:  264
Bonus Points:  7
Penalty Points:  0
Total British Sorties to Date:  4635
Total British Losses to Date:  119
Current British Loss Rate: 2.6%
Total Luftwaffe Losses to Date:  115
************************ End of War Dairy Entry ************************

hmmm
shot down 51 GB bombers, I lost 9 to combat, I show I lost 29 during the turn
I do show I lost 14 due to write offs, so maybe the rest were planes that crashed during landing, that don't show up in the reports ?

overall, I would have to say to wait till they release a patch

combat is almost 4 to 1 in my favor, but I am losing as many planes as the enemy is, if I am losing 20+ planes a turn to crashes and damaged, the GB should be losing twice that many, as I am easily damageing double (overall) what I shoot down (between my Flak and Air I shot down 40 from one raid, I damaged 67 during that raid, where are the GB write offs and crashes ?, unless it is a AI thing, so, from that turn, it looks like I lost 20 to damage and crashes, the AI lost 10)


replacement rate can not replace combat losses, let alone crashes and damaged writeoff

you start with some 217's, and then get a upgrade to the 217, and then, you get no more 217s ? so you can upgrade the 217 to the new and improved 217, but there are no 217s in stock, unless you change one of your Staffels to something else

Aces die too fast, I guess they never learned how to land a plane

all this is also with a GE tech edge in air to air radar, doc and 219 production (which means I got one Staffel of 219s)

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/13/2006 7:42:28 AM   
Fred98


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If Defending The Reich were available to purchase via digital download I would buy it.

As it is, it costs USD$29.99 and delivery to Australia costs USD$24.99

The shipping cost kill it for me.

Nothing like customer feedback!



-


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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/13/2006 10:42:26 AM   
Hard Sarge


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Yuck, that is a shame

the shipping in the states was pretty good

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/13/2006 1:16:15 PM   
JamesM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

If Defending The Reich were available to purchase via digital download I would buy it.

As it is, it costs USD$29.99 and delivery to Australia costs USD$24.99

The shipping cost kill it for me.

Nothing like customer feedback!



That is where Matrixgames succeds!


Digital Download!

< Message edited by jamesm -- 9/13/2006 1:17:40 PM >

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/13/2006 9:25:34 PM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

If Defending The Reich were available to purchase via digital download I would buy it.

As it is, it costs USD$29.99 and delivery to Australia costs USD$24.99

The shipping cost kill it for me.

Nothing like customer feedback!



-



Have you tried ordering it from NWS-Online?

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Post #: 16
RE: Defending the Reich - 9/13/2006 10:21:05 PM   
Hard Sarge


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it is not a DD game, at least from the talks I had with NWS

I don't know what there shipping charges for overships are, but with in the states it is decent



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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/13/2006 10:48:18 PM   
Dixie


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Is this game worth getting? I liked BTR, and the focus on the RAF in this appeals to me. There's no DD available (that's bad), but it's just over £20 to get it sent to me in the UK (which is ) . I also have to say I was impressed with their quick reply to my email- less than 5 minutes

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/14/2006 12:34:56 AM   
Hard Sarge


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I'm a little bias to be saying yea or nay on something like this

I think it is a decent game, but I think there are things wrong with the thinking behind it, the week turn is odd, game play and subject matter supports a dayly turn set up

production is screwy, replacements are way off compared to the number of losses you take (in 43, you shouldn't be having Gruppen with no planes)

plus based on a die roll, you can get turns of no replacements

which nothing a small patch can't fix

overall, would say I like the system, I like the game, but don't know if I can tell someone else they should get it

here is my current game as the GE, I am even winning now


================Current Campaign Results===============
Total Area Destroyed to Date:  2296
Victory Points:  259
Bonus Points:  19
Penalty Points:  0
Total British Sorties to Date:  4970
Total British Losses to Date:  167
Current British Loss Rate: 3.4%
Total Luftwaffe Losses to Date:  166
************************ End of War Dairy Entry ************************

my biggest complaint is the number of crashes and write off, I would say I lost 50-70 planes in combat so far, the rest are from write offs, now I am knocking down 20-30 bombers a turn, and damageing 30-60, but the GB/AI is not writing off tons of planes

which is odd to see that you damaged 60 planes, and shot down 30 planes, and only had one bomber lost to a crash landing, but you lose 20

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/14/2006 12:48:06 AM   
Dixie


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Thanks for the reply.

The turn system does look a bit strange. I guess most games are not perfext when they are released, but at £20 I think I'm going to be tempted.

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/14/2006 1:00:00 AM   
Hard Sarge


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I like the game, but I find myself getting fed up after a couple of turns, saving it and doing something else, and then going back

so it got lot of good going for it, but enough bad, that it gets you fed up

but again, nothing a small patch shouldn't be able to settle

a lot of times, when a game is getting close, you are more concerned with being sure it works, not in how it works

I think it just needs a little tuneing

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/14/2006 1:16:36 AM   
Fred98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack
Have you tried ordering it from NWS-Online?



Those prices are from NWS-Online.




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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/15/2006 6:47:36 PM   
Howard Mitchell


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

but it's just over £20 to get it sent to me in the UK (which is )



Try www.duchet.com based in Chepstow. I got my copy from them for £24.99 plus £1.00 p&P. It arrived 48 hours later.

The game looks quite interesting, but I haven't had time to do more than load it up so far.


< Message edited by Howard Mitchell -- 9/15/2006 6:54:11 PM >


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While the battles the British fight may differ in the widest possible ways, they invariably have two common characteristics – they are always fought uphill and always at the junction of two or more map sheets.

General Sir William Slim

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/15/2006 7:03:29 PM   
goodboyladdie


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If I did buy it, it will only be as a fix until the real thing comes along to ruin my life. The new screenshots posted today by HS certainly whet the appetite...

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/15/2006 11:26:01 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Howard Mitchell

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie

but it's just over £20 to get it sent to me in the UK (which is )



Try www.duchet.com based in Chepstow. I got my copy from them for £24.99 plus £1.00 p&P. It arrived 48 hours later.

The game looks quite interesting, but I haven't had time to do more than load it up so far.



It's on it's way from the US as we speak, £22.24 all told including airmail.

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/18/2006 9:27:26 PM   
Capt Cliff


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My opinion ...YUCK! It's half a game! Where's the USAAF? Tiller is a snake oil saleman! His operational games are pseudo tactical games and his tactical games are pseudo operational. His modelling of operational combat is all wrong! I think he surf's the Matrix site looking for new game ideas to copy. Strange, he hasn't tried WitP!

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/18/2006 11:53:54 PM   
Nicholas Bell

 

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My opinion ...YUCK! It's half a game! Where's the USAAF? Tiller is a snake oil saleman! His operational games are pseudo tactical games and his tactical games are pseudo operational. His modelling of operational combat is all wrong! I think he surf's the Matrix site looking for new game ideas to copy. Strange, he hasn't tried WitP!


John Tiller did not design DTR. Greg Smith and Jim Lunsford did, and it has is roots in a board wargame Greg did a decade ago, long before Matrix. The game design/intent is to focus on the battle between Bomber Command and the Luftwaffe. It is not intended to be an HPS version of Bombing the Reich. There's plenty of room for multiple games with different takes on the same subject.

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RE: Defending the Reich - 9/20/2006 3:54:53 AM   
SMK-at-work

 

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US$24 postage cost is for premium post from the US - you can take the standard mail ("GPM") for US$8.99.

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RE: Defending the Reich - 11/7/2006 12:40:18 AM   
ezz

 

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Well it's definately BTR light !!

That said it is enjoyable. The interface is good if not perfect, and you soon learn to deal with the oddities.
Does seem to be a lot of crashed Luftwaffe planes compared to RAF. I know many me-110 and Ju 88 had problems landing  with the radar affecting landing speeds and the Me 109 crashed on landing day OR night but it  still seems a bit high.

I do like the RAF bomber offensive theme.
If you want a simple version that's easy to play and finish pretty quickly this will do.

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RE: Defending the Reich - 11/21/2006 1:15:05 PM   
Adam Parker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ezz

That said it is enjoyable. The interface is good if not perfect, and you soon learn to deal with the oddities...
I do like the RAF bomber offensive theme.
If you want a simple version that's easy to play and finish pretty quickly this will do.


Yeah I agree with this summary. I love the other guy's rant btw trashing John Tiller when he's has no involvement with this game at all!

I'm finding HPS's "Defending the Reich" a pretty addictive "just one more turn" game. Very quick to play and some cool strategic and operational problem solving. I'm playing as the Allies and the key to winning is keeping your losses below a trend line whilst causing as much damage in acreage as possible. However, it is easy to loose 60 planes in week's missions. A sure way to give the Germans an overall win.

I hope more than anything that Matrix does this Talonsoft re-release (ie: "Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich") properly. I've always wanted to play the originals but I just can't sit in front of a screen for a half-hour to an hour and have nothing to do but watch. And the work load in running the Air War over the Reich is just massively micromanaged. Please reduce this workload and make the resolution phase something to enjoy guys!

Cheers,
Adam.

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