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Holland 1940 scenario - 8/23/2006 11:53:40 PM   
baskreuger

 

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From: Haarlem, Holland
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Would a scenario of Holland 1940 be possible with COTA? I looked and the map involved with all three airdrops (around The Hague, Rotterdam and Dordrecht/Moerdijk) will fit in a 40 - 55 km map, so reading the mapmaker manual this should (just) be possible.
As the Luftwaffe airborne divs are already there (albeit with a 1941 OOB and TOE) they should be doable too. But how about the Dutch forces? Simulate these with the Greeks maybe? Lots of infantry in various quality (mostly low ;-( , a few Marines, some armoured cars, few artillery batteries, lots of AAA and a bit of naval support.
Maps are no problem, I have the original 1938 military maps for the whole of Holland.

Would be nice to do this one, as it was the first major airborne operation with both political/strategic goals (capturing the Queen and government in The Hague) as well as operational ones (capturing four airfields around The Hague and Rotterdam + the three major bridges at Moerdijk, Dordrecht and Rotterdam that lead right into the heart of Holland.

And it was a close run thing too. The 22nd Luftlande Div was completely shattered, the 7th Fallschirmjaeger succeeded in its bridge capturing missions, but had only a Frost/Arnhem like hold on the bridge in Rotterdam and had to be 'helped' by bombing Rotterdam to pieces to make the whole thing work.

A nice operation for the AA engine!

Bas
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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 8/24/2006 4:10:43 AM   
Arjuna


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Yes Bas, should be good.

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 8/24/2006 4:14:03 AM   
Arjuna


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Oh and you got to check out the German WW2 movie of this op - Andere Tijden - Sprung in der Feind. You should be able to do a Google search on this. It has some very nice footage even if it's a propaganda film.

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 8/24/2006 11:00:20 AM   
baskreuger

 

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Nice film, filmed sometime after the real thing. The soldiers are a bit too relaxed for real war ;-)

I'll start with the map (enough work) and will see about the scenario later on........

Bas

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 8/25/2006 12:52:18 AM   
Vance

 

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    Bas,

That would be great, to do some battles in my own backyard.

If you need a hand in map making say so (not that I have experience).

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 8/28/2006 6:08:49 PM   
baskreuger

 

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Hi Vance,

I'll send you some mapfiles shortly if you can mail me your email. Mine is: curtiss AT hetnet PUNT nl
First I am scanning now the maps around the Hague with Ypenburg, Ockenburg, Valkenburg and the highway to Rotterdam + the bridge there.
That's the best part I think. Maybe Dordrecht and the Moerdijk can be added later. The heaviest fighting was at the airfields around The Hague, het Staalduinsche Bos near Hoek van Holland and ofcourse around the Maasbruggen in Rotterdam.

Do you have good OOB's for both the Dutch and the Germans? I have the two "blue books" of the history of airdefence in WWII with fairly detailed OOB's for both the para's and most Dutch troops.

Bas

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 8/29/2006 12:51:33 AM   
Arjuna


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Good to see guys. Good luck and have fun.

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 8/29/2006 1:40:34 PM   
tukker

 

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You probably know this already, but there's a detailed OOB of the Dutch forces available at Dr. Niehorster's site, here

Pieter

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 9/12/2006 11:28:11 PM   
Vance

 

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I am glad I can announce that the Holland 1940 scenario project has started. Bas and I have joined hands. Bas is doing the OOB and I have made a small testmap of the area. Here is a peak what we have now.

Vance.




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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 9/13/2006 12:28:53 AM   
tukker

 

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That's looking good! I'm looking forward to playing this one.

Pieter

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 9/13/2006 1:26:13 AM   
Arjuna


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Nice!

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 10/4/2006 9:26:20 AM   
El Savior

 

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You started making 1940 Holland? Wee! That's what I've been planning to do for about two years! I already have 1939 era (digital) maps of the whole Holland, but they are only 1:250,000 scales. A bit too large scale and map doesn't show all details needed. I made few calculations and noticed that map making + research is taking too much my time and abandoned the big project. What I am doing now is smaller scale scenarios instead. Right now I'm making Moerdjik bridge scenario. First it will be semi-historical and more like a trial/test scenario to get more experience in scenario making. Later I perhaps do some other scenarios.

Anyway, good luck with the project! At least now I'm not starting the (big) project myself when you guys have already started.

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 10/4/2006 4:57:10 PM   
Vance

 

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Bas and I are focusing on the Den Haag region with the German landings at the airports Ypenburg, Valkenburg and Ockenburg. If you are doing Moerdijk, that is great.

If you need higher resolution maps ask Bas, he will probably have maps from around 1928 with a good resolution. I am doing the mapmaking, if you have questions about mapmaking ask me.

Bas is doing the OOB. He didn't do the southern part (Dordrecht and Moerdijk) because it is a lot of work, and we didn't need it for the first scenario. It would be great if we create one Holland 1940 OOB that is used both by your scenario and ours. Contact Bas for details.

I wonder, if you are from Finland, where comes the interest for the landings in 1940 in Holland from?

If we join efforts, it starts looking like a real Holland 1940 DDT.


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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 10/4/2006 9:49:54 PM   
El Savior

 

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I have already made map around Moerdjik (30x30 km). Whole map is still under construction, but I have cropped it to smaller map. This smaller map is finished. Check it:



I could do whole southern area map and easily add Dordrect to my current map. Or probably start all over again, if I can use smaller scale maps. I will ask Bas for those maps.

Where my interest comes? Well... I like airborne operations and there are not many of them. Holland 1940 is one of the major ones and COTA can simulate this very well. Also Dutch fight hard and German paras casualty rate was high. Probably Holland 1940 campaign will be very fun to play on either side.

< Message edited by El Savior -- 10/4/2006 9:54:18 PM >


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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 10/5/2006 12:21:18 AM   
Vance

 

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Whow, that looks good. I would say lets join forces.

Here is a piece of our map that is ready. It ist the part below Den Haag. The town right is Delft.


The left part of the map is the so called "Westland" and is famous for its greenhouses. The white spots are greenhouses.

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 10/5/2006 1:22:30 AM   
Arjuna


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Vance,

What do you mean by a "greenhouse"? - Here in Australia it usually means a building made of glass inside which plants are grown. Is that the same?

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 10/5/2006 11:35:30 PM   
Vance

 

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Yes, that is exactly what it is. Already in 1940 a large area was covered in glass. The greenhouses were used for growing tomatoes, cumcumbers but also grapes. Nowadays the area is completely covered in glass.

Here is how it looks zoomed in:



As it is quite a large area and it is a special combat environment I decided to make it a separate layer. To simulate the dangerous environment I intend to increase the hit effect both for direct fire and for area fire to 115% as the woods layer has for area fire. I have replaced "Heide" (heath) as that isn't present in this part of the Netherlands.

Heide is a good drop zone, whereas greenhouses absolutely not. I recall from HttR that drop casualties in wooded and urban terrain where high. What do I have to do to make the drop casualties for my greenhouse layer also high?

EDIT: added image.








< Message edited by Vance -- 10/5/2006 11:48:20 PM >

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RE: Holland 1940 scenario - 10/6/2006 12:59:50 AM   
Arjuna


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Vance,

Unfortunately it was hard coded - ie the code checks to see if the terrain is woods or urban. So we would need to modify the code for this to work. WHat really should happen is that the effect should be encapsulated with the terrain layer data. Paul and I have been discussing this issue and hopefully we will revamp the map classes after BFTB to enable this.

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