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RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion

 
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RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion - 3/3/2009 2:26:49 PM   
0331marine

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline
Its interesting to see how all the misconceptions about tundra are played out. This time of the year is the best time for manuvers, infact almost the only time of the year to effectivly fight in the Finnmark/Murmansk area. A good friend of mine did his nation service year up there as a boarderguard/instructor. He told me it is all swamp and mountian, and even more swamp and mountian. Only vehicle they could use off road was the tracked BV series, mind you for those who dont know what the BVs are, they are unarmored, and they run on rubber tracks about 2 feet wide. The reason for the swampish/marshy conditions are quite simple, the ground is frozen due to permafrost, so all the precipitation that falls have no drainage, in the normal sense. If one look at overhead imagery of Finnmark and Troms there is a marked diffrence in the amount of small lakes that are in Finnmark. The same is for Kola. It is almost as if God acid etched the whole region so that it is almost like porous preforated landscape resting on a ocean. So to give it no combat effect is way to nice, from a realistic perspective, it should have swamp effects and swamp movements. Also there should be a lessened stacking limit, say of max one piece, meaning you only get one div or corps per hex. The reason behind this is simple enough, most armies on the eastern front used horses to carry their supplies, and up north there isnt an abundance of fooder, this infomation I have from a gaming aciontance who was an officer with the last packhorse company the Norwegian Army had, which was dispanded in the 1980s. It is in these days infact that you can do the most serious manuvers in the north, this is cause the ground has become frozen enough to take the veight of heavy machinery and also the daylight have returned suficentlly to manuver in any meaningful fashion, bear in mind this is if you discount the use of night vision equipment which we now take for granted. Another telling point, is that the Russians only liberated Kirkenes, after the Germans had evacuated it, and set up more defensible possitions at Skibotn vally, which lies 400 km west of Kirkenes. Why didnt the Russians go stopping down the Finnmark platau? Even today the Norwegian Army operate on the same defensive strategy, Finnmark is only lightly garrisioned by two battalion sized ranger formations. One at the boarder and one in the middle of the country at Porsanger. The main formation 6th division is held back in Troms country and the two garrisons in Finnmark are mainly used as tripwires and LRRG formations, which will exfiltrate in the case of war back to Troms.

Semper Fi

< Message edited by 0331marine -- 3/3/2009 2:36:24 PM >

(in reply to micheljq)
Post #: 451
RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion - 3/19/2012 7:05:26 PM   
AdurianJ

 

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Joined: 3/2/2012
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The railroad from Oslo to Stockholm should intersect with the Gothenburg Stockholm line in the hex West of it right next to lake Vänern.

The inland railroad in northern Sweden should also connect to one of the resource hexes. The railroad actually goes all the way down to Vänern but that can be laid asside. The importance of the Inlandsbanan is that since it was built as a secure transport route / make work program in the 1930's it was out of sight being in the middle of the dense Swedish forest. This was a major advantage to Stockholm when german troops where allowed to use the Swedish railroad network to get from Trondheim to Narvik, they where transported on Inlandsbanan as to not cause agitation.

Also just to be annoying the port of "Mo i Rana" should be added because that's the target of the Swedish counteroffensive in warplans from 1942 onwards. The plan was to make a counter-attack and establish contact with the western allies to get aid.


(in reply to Borger Borgersen)
Post #: 452
RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion - 3/19/2012 7:15:48 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 18411
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AdurianJ

The railroad from Oslo to Stockholm should intersect with the Gothenburg Stockholm line in the hex West of it right next to lake Vänern.

The inland railroad in northern Sweden should also connect to one of the resource hexes. The railroad actually goes all the way down to Vänern but that can be laid asside. The importance of the Inlandsbanan is that since it was built as a secure transport route / make work program in the 1930's it was out of sight being in the middle of the dense Swedish forest. This was a major advantage to Stockholm when german troops where allowed to use the Swedish railroad network to get from Trondheim to Narvik, they where transported on Inlandsbanan as to not cause agitation.

Also just to be annoying the port of "Mo i Rana" should be added because that's the target of the Swedish counteroffensive in warplans from 1942 onwards. The plan was to make a counter-attack and establish contact with the western allies to get aid.



Thanks for the input. I am letting Patrice make the decisions about the map.

As for the port, those are a delicate matter. Part of the problem is that in WIF ports represent both commercial and military ports. The major ports are pretty easy to decide to include but the minor ports are aggravating. Some of them served important military purposes but had no commercial utility, and vice-a-versa. If we add a port to the map, then the players can use it for both (i.e., repairing/bringing in naval units and transporting resources). We also have to be careful about play balance (e.g., stacking for air units). And there is always the risk of just simply overwhelming the map with ports if we are not careful.

Cities present a similar problem.

In general, we try to leave the European map as WIF FE renders it, getting approval from Harry Rowland before/after making changes.

Now Scandinavia was a particular hassle because WIF FE fudges a lot about the 3 northern countries (e.g., placing Bergen far too south). What we have now reflects a bunch of input from Danes, Swedes, Finns, and Norwegians, amongst others.

Hopefully Patrice will stop by and reply to your advice on improvements.

_____________________________

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to AdurianJ)
Post #: 453
RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion - 3/19/2012 8:48:08 PM   
Orm


Posts: 6526
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AdurianJ

The railroad from Oslo to Stockholm should intersect with the Gothenburg Stockholm line in the hex West of it right next to lake Vänern.

The inland railroad in northern Sweden should also connect to one of the resource hexes. The railroad actually goes all the way down to Vänern but that can be laid asside. The importance of the Inlandsbanan is that since it was built as a secure transport route / make work program in the 1930's it was out of sight being in the middle of the dense Swedish forest. This was a major advantage to Stockholm when german troops where allowed to use the Swedish railroad network to get from Trondheim to Narvik, they where transported on Inlandsbanan as to not cause agitation.

Also just to be annoying the port of "Mo i Rana" should be added because that's the target of the Swedish counteroffensive in warplans from 1942 onwards. The plan was to make a counter-attack and establish contact with the western allies to get aid.








Attachment (1)

_____________________________

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"Have you thought of going into teaching?"

(in reply to AdurianJ)
Post #: 454
RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion - 3/21/2012 2:33:07 AM   
brian brian

 

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I predict sales will be strong in Scandinavia...

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 455
RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion - 3/21/2012 6:43:53 PM   
micheljq


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Quebec
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I predict sales will be strong in Scandinavia...


A good MWiF game to help pass the long scandinavian or canadian winter.

_____________________________

Michel Desjardins,
"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"History is a set of lies agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte after the battle of Waterloo, june 18th, 1815

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 456
RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion - 3/21/2012 6:53:46 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7899
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AdurianJ

The railroad from Oslo to Stockholm should intersect with the Gothenburg Stockholm line in the hex West of it right next to lake Vänern.

The inland railroad in northern Sweden should also connect to one of the resource hexes. The railroad actually goes all the way down to Vänern but that can be laid asside. The importance of the Inlandsbanan is that since it was built as a secure transport route / make work program in the 1930's it was out of sight being in the middle of the dense Swedish forest. This was a major advantage to Stockholm when german troops where allowed to use the Swedish railroad network to get from Trondheim to Narvik, they where transported on Inlandsbanan as to not cause agitation.

First, thanks for your input and interest.
But also, what is the source of these suggestions ? Have you got a map ?

quote:

Also just to be annoying the port of "Mo i Rana" should be added because that's the target of the Swedish counteroffensive in warplans from 1942 onwards. The plan was to make a counter-attack and establish contact with the western allies to get aid.


(in reply to AdurianJ)
Post #: 457
RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion - 3/21/2012 7:52:00 PM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3234
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
The rail locations in Sweden were subject of a lot of discussion sevceral years ago.

My only comment is that the rail crossing on the east side of lake Vänern is actually located a little into the hex to the east of where it is shown in the town of Hallsberg. That town is too small to be shown.

Lars.


(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 458
RE: Modifications to MWiF Scandinavia Map portion - 3/21/2012 9:35:57 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7899
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: AdurianJ

The railroad from Oslo to Stockholm should intersect with the Gothenburg Stockholm line in the hex West of it right next to lake Vänern.

The inland railroad in northern Sweden should also connect to one of the resource hexes. The railroad actually goes all the way down to Vänern but that can be laid asside. The importance of the Inlandsbanan is that since it was built as a secure transport route / make work program in the 1930's it was out of sight being in the middle of the dense Swedish forest. This was a major advantage to Stockholm when german troops where allowed to use the Swedish railroad network to get from Trondheim to Narvik, they where transported on Inlandsbanan as to not cause agitation.

First, thanks for your input and interest.
But also, what is the source of these suggestions ? Have you got a map ?

quote:

Also just to be annoying the port of "Mo i Rana" should be added because that's the target of the Swedish counteroffensive in warplans from 1942 onwards. The plan was to make a counter-attack and establish contact with the western allies to get aid.



Maybe you could provide a drawing using the map posted above, to show what you propose ? It is always easier to visualise maps with a drawing

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 459
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