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RE: Review @ Out of Eight

 
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RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/15/2006 3:15:41 AM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

The remark about the graphics just shows that the reviewer does not really understand the community TOAW is serving. Most of us grew up playing with a map and cardboard cutout units, sitting at our kitchen tables painstakingly calculating and bookkeeping each and every turn that could take hours. Now we have all our Avalon Hills and Victory Games, on our PC's!


Some, some. There are increasing numbers of us for whome Avalon Hill is just as much a part of history as the battles they made games about.

_____________________________

"Event 902: Bob Cross slays dragons!"

http://www.savemstateathletics.com/tdg/

(in reply to Dr. Foo)
Post #: 31
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/15/2006 8:57:40 AM   
TheBloodyBucket


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Ha!  Graphics!  Back in the day, we stared at green text and liked it!

Seriously, the graphics in TOAW should be somewhere on the list of items to be polished up, but I think a lot of it would have more to do with zoom levels and map info than an option to replay a battle in stunning 3D with multiple camera views and cutscenes featuring Vin Diesel explaining the way that rounds work while he shoots an MP-5 in slow motion.  Although, that might be interesting.

While I agree that the target audience is more likely to get enthused about interface improvements than eye candy, the current 3D view is pretty useless, and if it got replaced by something pretty or better yet, more informative, that would be great.  I've always thought that it might be fun in a game of this scale to get an end of turn report by G-section. 

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 32
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/16/2006 10:49:56 PM   
Martin James

 

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Hi
Might it be possible to have a third display option for the unit counters - ie their unit designation.
After all, when the actual generals looked at their maps, that was what they saw - not figures for combat strength or movement points. For me, this would definitely help the suspension of disbelief.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 33
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/17/2006 11:43:46 PM   
Catch21

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo
Most of us grew up playing with a map and cardboard cutout units, sitting at our kitchen tables painstakingly calculating and bookkeeping each and every turn that could take hours. Now we have all our Avalon Hills and Victory Games, on our PC's!

If the units looked any different I would not be as interested in this game.

I'll buy this. Those old cardboard counters didn't evolve the way they did over 30 years for nothing. They conveyed information. And sometimes that's often what a commander needs most. I don't want to see a prancing or neighing cavalry pony or a beautifully rendered T34 pirouetting on a 3D base thanks. There are other games for that. Stay focussed.

_____________________________

Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
(J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

(in reply to Dr. Foo)
Post #: 34
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/18/2006 2:15:42 AM   
Volsung


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Yes, clear and concise information is paramount. Leave the frills to Command and Conquer.

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Post #: 35
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/18/2006 6:35:56 AM   
ralphtricky


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Martin James

Hi
Might it be possible to have a third display option for the unit counters - ie their unit designation.
After all, when the actual generals looked at their maps, that was what they saw - not figures for combat strength or movement points. For me, this would definitely help the suspension of disbelief.

Martin,
I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you explain a little further?

Thanks,
Ralph

(in reply to Martin James)
Post #: 36
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/18/2006 7:18:01 AM   
WhiteOwl

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Martin James

Hi
Might it be possible to have a third display option for the unit counters - ie their unit designation.
After all, when the actual generals looked at their maps, that was what they saw - not figures for combat strength or movement points. For me, this would definitely help the suspension of disbelief.

Martin,
I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you explain a little further?

Thanks,
Ralph


I think what Martin means is similar to a request I made a couple weeks ago. Have a third mode where you can see which formation and which unit within the formation each counter is in. For example, 2nd regiment of the 4th Infantry Division would say 2/4ID, and if it were broken into battalions, it would sat for example 1/2/4ID.

Thanks,
Yair

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 37
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/18/2006 8:49:56 AM   
TheBloodyBucket


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Maybe this could replace the oft-reviled 3-D mode, or be worked in to it so that the player could get the orginization information while in that view.

(in reply to WhiteOwl)
Post #: 38
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/18/2006 6:19:49 PM   
ralphtricky


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBloodyBucket

Maybe this could replace the oft-reviled 3-D mode, or be worked in to it so that the player could get the orginization information while in that view.

Some people like the 3D mode, actually. If it had more information on it, it might be usable.

Let me think about that view. One problem I can see is that some scenarios aren't going to be able to display that information for all armies, but if it's optional, it may be possible.

Ralph

(in reply to TheBloodyBucket)
Post #: 39
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 12:59:47 AM   
Awac835


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while we are at graphics well, wargames like this should stay 2D imo.
but like someone above said. ill take cutscenes starring vin disel any day of the week
nahh really i think hes a very bad actor tbh.

sry for the double post i missed second page

< Message edited by Awac835 -- 6/19/2006 1:08:37 AM >

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 40
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 1:05:58 AM   
Awac835


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Martin James

Hi
Might it be possible to have a third display option for the unit counters - ie their unit designation.
After all, when the actual generals looked at their maps, that was what they saw - not figures for combat strength or movement points. For me, this would definitely help the suspension of disbelief.

Martin,
I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you explain a little further?

Thanks,
Ralph



Doh didnt see the page continue on number 2 ><

I im with him i think if you have 2 counters you cant really tell there formation appart just by looking at em. That is bad i think. I have to click each and every counter to see what units i really have in that stack. Then i rather have some larger counters that contained more info :)

In BIN i can see what division this and that regiment or battalion belongs to just by looking at the counter i cant do that in TOAW and its a even bigger need here since some of the maps are HUGE!!

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 41
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 2:08:24 AM   
Motomouse

 

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The 2d view is best suited for the toaw gameplay.

But I also think more zoom levels are a very good idea.

To achieve this vector graphics or using 3d technology for the 2d map is the way to go in my opinion. With vector graphics it needs some skill to achieve a good result with hex tiles, but you have some capable artists at matrixgames available. You also solve the problems with different screen resolutions and dimensions.


(in reply to Awac835)
Post #: 42
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 5:11:56 AM   
Fred98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
In the end, it's going to be counters on a map......but there is a lot that can be done .....to bring it up to modern standards.


Will you marry me?




_____________________________


(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 43
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 12:23:42 PM   
Pergite!

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awac835

I im with him i think if you have 2 counters you cant really tell there formation appart just by looking at em. That is bad i think. I have to click each and every counter to see what units i really have in that stack. Then i rather have some larger counters that contained more info :)

In BIN i can see what division this and that regiment or battalion belongs to just by looking at the counter i cant do that in TOAW and its a even bigger need here since some of the maps are HUGE!!



The realisation that this was not included came as a complete suprprise to me, and it made me rather dissapointed. When I tried the the tutorial at first I just couldnt find the units that the text talked about. A unit labeled 1-4 was IMO the 1st Bn from the 4th Brigade... not a units abstracted attack and defence values.
Why not look at the professionals that does this "wargaming" for a living (i.e military), and how they do present their units.

The same goes with the reports that keeps flashing by with no decent structure and lack of usefull information. Not even the text snips saved after each turn gives you a honest chance to catch up on what has been happening.

Is there any hope that this ecer could be improved by a patch or mod, or is the game suppose to stay the same as it alwasy has?

< Message edited by Pergite! -- 6/19/2006 12:24:49 PM >

(in reply to Awac835)
Post #: 44
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 12:46:24 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4750
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pergite!

The realisation that this was not included came as a complete suprprise to me, and it made me rather dissapointed. When I tried the the tutorial at first I just couldnt find the units that the text talked about. A unit labeled 1-4 was IMO the 1st Bn from the 4th Brigade... not a units abstracted attack and defence values.
Why not look at the professionals that does this "wargaming" for a living (i.e military), and how they do present their units.


The military has different needs. They're not doing this for fun.

_____________________________

"Event 902: Bob Cross slays dragons!"

http://www.savemstateathletics.com/tdg/

(in reply to Pergite!)
Post #: 45
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 1:18:10 PM   
Awac835


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i would still favor a bigger counter that contained both defence and attack and formation info as to where a unit belongs etc.

maybe make it a button that shift from attack/defence info to formation info on the counter. Also something to show defence for a entiere stack maybe? I remember this being added in a pathc in BIN and it was so nice when you planned your defences that you could now see the entier stacks defence.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 46
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 1:24:11 PM   
golden delicious


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...Never mind. Misread above post.

Can't I delete my posts here? Annoying. Very annoying.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 6/19/2006 1:25:03 PM >


_____________________________

"Event 902: Bob Cross slays dragons!"

http://www.savemstateathletics.com/tdg/

(in reply to Awac835)
Post #: 47
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 2:19:57 PM   
Catch21

 

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I'd agree. But you can I think edit to nothingness. I just tried it and it works.

< Message edited by General Staff -- 6/19/2006 2:22:20 PM >


_____________________________

Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
(J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 48
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 2:28:49 PM   
Pergite!

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
The military has different needs. They're not doing this for fun.



Are you sure about that?

The military do conduct major computer assisted wargames with operators playing games similiar to TOAW (but in real-/continous time) to operate the OPFOR actions and events to counter the staff and commanders that are in training.

Anyway, my point was not about realism, just presenting data and infomation in a well thought out and user friendly manner.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 49
RE: Review @ Out of Eight - 6/19/2006 5:01:57 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6570
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pergite!
Is there any hope that this ecer could be improved by a patch or mod, or is the game suppose to stay the same as it alwasy has?

Yes. Thanks, I love it when I get a question like that.



BTW, The program is definitely going to change over time. I can't say for sure if that feature will make it or not.

(in reply to Pergite!)
Post #: 50
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