From: Dallas, Texas, USA
ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior
Aren't we a bit oversensitive, heh?
There is no way I wanted to say or even suggest, that US citizens were lacking a backbone. While definitely critical towards fanatics, I dont despise any nation. BUT you have to be aware that there are such things as national characteristics. Which is basically how the people from a given country think and behave, although in a wide range, but more or less the same, the way they are taught to (by parents, school, church etc.).
What I meant is that the Day of Infamy was the main, and IMHO only, reason why the society wanted to carry on till the end, no matter the cost. France and Italy surrendered, although they still had some chance to resist, because their will was broken.
Of course after a normal DOW a war follows, but say a decisive battle (aka warplan orange) with a major IJN victory would have been enough to call it a day, at least for the time being. Without the sneak attack on PH there is no way I can imagine that such people like the americans at that time (who despised all sorts of aggressive wars) would have wanted to fight it out the way they did after the Day of Infamy.
You are all too willing to forget about the fact, which J.P. Taylor pinted out first, that without the german DOW, even FDR would have not been enough to DOW the nazis. At least in 1941 (and probably for a couple of years). According to him (J.P. Taylor) this DOW was Hitler's greatest mistake even bigger than attacking Russia. Not to mention FDR's continous pressure on Japan. No Tojo and his predecessors were not Grail knights but neither were their US counterparts. I am not saying that they are comparable, but a war was coming handy for FDR and his staff (just as the second Gulf war in 1991). Check the building start dates of most WWII USN ships. Even Iowa was laid down in 40!
You know if you start to wave a piece of beefsteak in the front of a lion dont be surprised
if he swallows your arm with it!
What I meant with workaround is that, IMHO that if Dec. 7 sneak atack is off, Japan could achieve a sort of 'victory' by causing enough losses, and occupying enough territory to force a peace talks, at least in the covered period. Obviously you two see it another way.
I basically agree with you, and that the terms of surrender for Japan would have even been less restricting had they not sneak attacked PH. I also do think it was possible to break the US will for war, if enough things went poorly (like invading mainland Japan with the inevitable HUGE losses) it's just that the European theatre, by the time of D-Day, had little chance to change US attitude, and though severe losses could have changed attitudes toward dealing with Japan, the PH attack just made it not as possible as otherwise. The damage the attack did to the equipment of war, was probably not as large a gain for the IJN as the increase in desire to substain fighting her to the US morale. Japan didn't help matters either by doing the same things a number of the Germams were doing in some of the killing/torture of prisoners and so forth.