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Your Latest Patch - AI Is A Little Too Clever

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Discontinued Games] >> Gary Grigsby's World at War >> Limited Public Beta Feedback >> Your Latest Patch - AI Is A Little Too Clever Page: [1]
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Your Latest Patch - AI Is A Little Too Clever - 2/9/2006 6:23:56 AM   
Auchinleck

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I liked the game better BEFORE Patch version 1.040 is it? Anyway, playing as the Allies is not as much fun as the game was without your making the Axis AI too clever. Two key examples: 1 - From what I've observed, Nazi subs just hide in port all the time and cannot be hunted down by Allied light fleets to be destroyed, unless their port is captured, or unless the Axis AI decides to attack a convoy that has a light fleet escort. 2 - Japan now refuses to attack Hawaii to kick off the USA's traditional entry into the war, the attack on Pearl Harbor. It might be just my opinion but as far as I'm concerned, these do not make the game more fun, just less historically accurate. Maybe I should stick with the raw, just off the shelf version. Or, which patch version do you recommend I should use that has just the less CPU usage feature, but hasn't yet been corrupted by one of the {can't leave well enough alone game programmers, from becoming too clever and over tweaking the Axis computer AI}?
Post #: 1
RE: Your Latest Patch - AI Is A Little Too Clever - 2/9/2006 6:55:54 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 18659
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online 		Yes, we are guilty of improving the Axis AI so that it plays better with it's navy. You have to find ways to shut off the subs ability to get at your transports (using airpower from carriers or flying patrol over sea areas). We don't usually hear people complaining that we've made the AI play better.

As for the Pearl Harbor attack, that was not intentionally changed. It rings a bell, but I can't remember if this is something that was known to be broken and then fixed, or if it might still be broken. We think that the public beta version 1.087 is the best version available at the moment. We are waiting for some localization files (and a few more small changes) before we make this the next official patch. If Japan is not attacking Pearl Harbor in 1.087, we'd be interested in knowing that and getting a save game just before Japan attacks the US.

(in reply to Auchinleck)
Post #: 2
RE: Your Latest Patch - AI Is A Little Too Clever - 2/9/2006 8:47:25 PM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2139
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline 		Sometimes Japan does not attack Pearl Harbor in fall 1941. At times it waits a turn or two or even until Fall 1942 just before automatic US entry. I wouldn't consider that broken, its varity. I would guess from my experience that 75% of the time Japan attacks PH fall 1941. 10% of the time the next turn, and 10% the turn after that. Leaving about a 5% chance that it will put it off until the last minute, which is fall 1942. If your not experiencing something like this, I suspect you may have an error. Install patch 1.087 to see if that clears things up. If that doesn't, I would delete and reinstall. After that I doubt you will see this problem again.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 3
RE: Your Latest Patch - AI Is A Little Too Clever - 2/9/2006 8:55:29 PM   
Petrosian

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		A clever Idea would be to make subs invisible to the opponent.

(in reply to Auchinleck)
Post #: 4
RE: Your Latest Patch - AI Is A Little Too Clever - 2/10/2006 1:20:41 AM   
Auchinleck

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Joel, You seemed to have missed the point about not being able to hunt down the Nazi u-boats. They only come out to attack during the German AI's turn, then they hide in port. As the Allied player, you can no longer go on the offensive, and hunt them down with light fleet units to sink them, since they are all cowering in port. And afterall, the lf unit is supposed to represent destroyers along with cruisers. Destroyers are supposed to be able to hunt down submarines. With your AI 'improvement' they can't do this anymore! Now, the only way to kill them, is to bomb them by air in port, capture the port, or lf units can sink them defensively if they are escorting transports which are attacked by subs. What I'm saying is Allied Light Fleets should still be able to move and attack AI controlled German subs in the open ocean. (Like they could before the patch eliminated that possibility). This is not a realistic AI 'improvement' if you are playing as the allies. By the way, I keep starting over to test the theory, but the Japs no longer attack at Pearl in 1941, or even in 1942 from what I've observed. All they do is shuffle troops around the coastal areas of China. They don't even attack unprotected inland areas of China that are just begging to be overrun. In the meantime, the US can't enter the conflict, leaving Britain and Russia to go it alone, until the end of 1942? These are supposed to be German and Japan AI improvements? I still say the unpatched game has a more realistic and historical feel to it than the patched AI 'improvement' versions. I'm willing to try the beta patch 1.087 to see if the Japs are going to attack Pearl in 1941(if someone can tell me where the download is, I didn't find it under downloads on this site).

(in reply to Petrosian)
Post #: 5
RE: Your Latest Patch - AI Is A Little Too Clever - 2/10/2006 3:28:51 AM   
Lebatron


Posts: 2139
Joined: 5/30/2005
From: Upper Michigan
Status: offline 		Well to me things in the Pacific feel no different after patching than before. The Atlantic sub thing did change a bit as I recall and Joel confirmed, but your totally off base by suggesting the patch had anything to do with Pearl Hardor or when the US enters the war. US entry has not changed nor has the timing of Pearl Harbor. The pecentages I estimated above are as true for v1.0 as they are for the latest patch. The only thing that effected the Pacific war was my proposed then abopted change of the US production multiple from x3 to x2. But that would only have an effect after PH. You must be doing something very unconventional in your games to be causing the AI to act this way. I suggest you set all to AI controll and sit back and watch. I bet you will see Japan attack PH 75% of the time in Fall 1941. BTW what nations are you playing and what settings are you using to trigger this uncommon Jap behavior.

Oh you mentioned Japan never attacks empty Chinese territories too. Thats a simple one to answer. China gets 2 free miltia for every point of population. If the Japanese AI sends an army into an empty zone then calls off the attack its because of them free miltia that would pop up. You see the AI is designed to use the combat odds analizer. What you may think was a 100% chance to win may really be 0% which is why the Japanese AI always calls off the attack. Just so you know free militia pop up in other areas too. England, Scotland, East and West Germany, Czech, Austria, The Jap home islands. Sometimes the number is 1 miltia to 1 pop or 2 to 1 and at Japan its 3 to 1. The details are in the manual. The details for Japan are in the latest patch.

Your points about the subs are well taken, but to be fair, having the German AI duck back into port is what's in his best interest. It wouldn't be an AI improvement if he stupidly left them out. If you play an experienced player he would do the same. Many months ago people posted exaclty the opposite of what you want done. They complained to get 2by3 to fix the German sub AI and make it behave as a player would use them. So they patched it and everyone was happy. I do get your point about your desire to go on the offensive and hunt them subs down, but thats not realistic. The way its works now simulates reality better. DD's did not go trolling about in the open Atlantic hoping to chance upon a sub, they travelled with the conveys as escorts. In others words they were in a defensive roll and only went sub hunting when it was known subs are in their area. Subs are the offensive in this case, and its they who are supposed to enter enemy sea zones. I think if you think about this more you will see it makes sense. As the UN player its about placing your DD's and Air support into good positions to make it difficult for the German subs. That's were the strategy comes in.

To find the latest patch just follow these instructions from Joel.

"For those going to the members area to download the patch, be sure to register your World at War in the members area using the Register Your Game option and then use the Registered Downloads option to download the file."

(in reply to Auchinleck)
Post #: 6
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