1.40 OOB Issues (Full Version)

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Mr.Frag -> 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 6:26:30 AM)

Keep it to the point, don't hijack the thread for non OOB stuff.




harrer -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 1:10:47 PM)

please, read my post " 1.50 "
thanks

Harrer




rtrapasso -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 4:00:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Keep it to the point, don't hijack the thread for non OOB stuff.


First: Is there any easy way to know (aside from going through and comparing each unit in detail) the differences of the OOB from ver 1.30 to 1.40?

Thanks!




Erik Rutins -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 4:03:17 PM)

The OOB changes are listed in the readme file "WhatsNew.pdf" in your WitP directory. Also linked in your start menu folder for WitP as "What's New"

Regards,

- Erik




bgibs -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 5:20:32 PM)

CVEBlock Island STILL has no air groups. Dis it historicaly not have an air group?




Mr.Frag -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 5:37:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bgibs

CVEBlock Island STILL has no air groups. Dis it historicaly not have an air group?


No air groups. As per reality.




Ron Saueracker -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 5:54:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The OOB changes are listed in the readme file "WhatsNew.pdf" in your WitP directory. Also linked in your start menu folder for WitP as "What's New"

Regards,

- Erik


They don't open for moi.




Iron Duke -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 7:16:24 PM)

Hi,
can someone confirm the new allied carrier capable slots ? the readme says slots 243 and 249.
Slot 243 is already being used for the soviet Li-2 transport.

Cheers




Erik Rutins -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 7:32:27 PM)

Ron,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
They don't open for moi.


Do you have Adobe Acrobat Reader installed on your computer? If not, download it for free from www.adobe.com.

A list of OOB changes was also pasted into a post on one of the other 1.40 threads.

Regards,

- Erik




irrelevant -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 9:37:20 PM)

quote:

the readme says slots 243 and 249.

prolly was spozed to read: 248 and 249.




Ron Saueracker -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 10:33:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Ron,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
They don't open for moi.


Do you have Adobe Acrobat Reader installed on your computer? If not, download it for free from www.adobe.com.

A list of OOB changes was also pasted into a post on one of the other 1.40 threads.

Regards,

- Erik


Got all of Adobe installed for years. Just won't open. Got the list from OOB threads earlier. Thanks Erik.




Ron Saueracker -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 10:34:42 PM)

Not that it is a gamebreaker [:D] but the PG Isabelwas a USN vessel, not Australian.




Tanaka -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/15/2004 11:24:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The OOB changes are listed in the readme file "WhatsNew.pdf" in your WitP directory. Also linked in your start menu folder for WitP as "What's New"

Regards,

- Erik


They don't open for moi.


u probably need to update adobe acrobat. did not work for me until i updated to newest version.




Don Bowen -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/16/2004 12:13:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bgibs

CVEBlock Island STILL has no air groups. Dis it historicaly not have an air group?


USS Block Island (CVE-106) was one of four Commencement Bay class escort carriers that were equipped with Marine Squadrons for direct support during amphibious assaults. Block Island was the only one that carrier night fighters.

Each ship carried a composite Marine Air Group that consisted of:
A Group Headquarters, called a Marine Carrier Air Group (MCVG)
A Fighter Squadron
A Torpedo Bomber Squadron
A Carrier Aircraft Service Detachment (CASD) that was directly attached to (and numbered with) the MCVG.
Note that some or all of the fighter squadrons were equipped with FM-2 prior to deployment but it APPEARS that all were
equipped with Corsairs (F4U-1 or FG-1) before deployment. In addition, each VMF(CVS) was assigned two F6F-5P photo-recon fighters, but these are not represented in WITP.


These Ships and their airgroups were:

Block Island: MCVG-1
VMF(CVS)-511 with 10 F4U-1 and 8 F6F-3N
VMTB(CVS)-233 with 12 TBM

Gilbert Islands: MCVG-2
VMF(CVS)-512 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-143 with 12 TBM

Vella Gulf: MCVG-3
VMF(CVS)-513 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-234 with 12 TBM

Cape Gloucester: MCVG-4
VMF(CVS)-351 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-132 with 12 TBM


Four more groups were being prepared for the invasion of Japan but were not yet ready when the war ended. The first two had joined their CVEs and working up, the last two were still ashore

Salerno Bay: MCVG-5 with VMF(CVS)-514 and VMTB(CVS)-144

Puget Sound: MCVG-6 with VMF(CVS)-321 and VMTB(CVS)-454

Rendova: MCVG-7 with VMF(CVS)-216 and VMTB(CVS)-624

Point Cruz: MCVG-8 with VMF(CVS)-217 and VMTB(CVS)-464




fbastos -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/16/2004 2:27:12 AM)

Khabarovsk with 1,000,000 supplies at scenario 16?

Perhaps it was entered with one digit too much?

F.




pad152 -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/17/2004 8:25:07 PM)

Allied Erie Class PG - Scen 15, Database ID 1371

A PG with 6in guns?

This ship has more armor then a CA!
Deck Armor:50
Belt Armor:90
Tower Armor:100




Halsey -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/17/2004 8:44:26 PM)

Yup! 6"ers on a PG. It is correct![:D]




Herrbear -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/17/2004 9:23:37 PM)

In British Fleet and Escort Destroyers, Vol. 1 (H T Lenton), the old S class DDs Thracian and Stronghold indicate that they were converted to minelayers in 38/39. Should these be a new class of DMs or did they convert back in 42 for escort work?




Admiral DadMan -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/17/2004 10:05:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bgibs

CVEBlock Island STILL has no air groups. Dis it historicaly not have an air group?


USS Block Island (CVE-106) was one of four Commencement Bay class escort carriers that were equipped with Marine Squadrons for direct support during amphibious assaults. Block Island was the only one that carrier night fighters.

Each ship carried a composite Marine Air Group that consisted of:
A Group Headquarters, called a Marine Carrier Air Group (MCVG)
A Fighter Squadron
A Torpedo Bomber Squadron
A Carrier Aircraft Service Detachment (CASD) that was directly attached to (and numbered with) the MCVG.
Note that some or all of the fighter squadrons were equipped with FM-2 prior to deployment but it APPEARS that all were
equipped with Corsairs (F4U-1 or FG-1) before deployment. In addition, each VMF(CVS) was assigned two F6F-5P photo-recon fighters, but these are not represented in WITP.


These Ships and their airgroups were:

Block Island: MCVG-1
VMF(CVS)-511 with 10 F4U-1 and 8 F6F-3N
VMTB(CVS)-233 with 12 TBM

Gilbert Islands: MCVG-2
VMF(CVS)-512 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-143 with 12 TBM

Vella Gulf: MCVG-3
VMF(CVS)-513 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-234 with 12 TBM

Cape Gloucester: MCVG-4
VMF(CVS)-351 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-132 with 12 TBM


Four more groups were being prepared for the invasion of Japan but were not yet ready when the war ended. The first two had joined their CVEs and working up, the last two were still ashore

Salerno Bay: MCVG-5 with VMF(CVS)-514 and VMTB(CVS)-144

Puget Sound: MCVG-6 with VMF(CVS)-321 and VMTB(CVS)-454

Rendova: MCVG-7 with VMF(CVS)-216 and VMTB(CVS)-624

Point Cruz: MCVG-8 with VMF(CVS)-217 and VMTB(CVS)-464


Do you mean Block Island or LONG Island. Two different ships/classes.




Mr.Frag -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/17/2004 10:37:27 PM)

Bah, didn't even notice that ... read LI having been asked a billion times about it [:D]




witpqs -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 3:24:23 AM)

MSW Jan van Amstel
MSW Pieter de Bitter
MSW Abraham Crijinssen

All have port of arrival 'unknown' (in mid '43).

Also, USN ML Ogalala: in any reference I have ever seen or read her name was spelled 'Oglala'. You probably have better references than I have to double check.




pry -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 4:29:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

MSW Jan van Amstel
MSW Pieter de Bitter
MSW Abraham Crijinssen

All have port of arrival 'unknown' (in mid '43).


Which scenario?




witpqs -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 4:38:38 AM)

Sorry - scenario 15.




michaelm -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 1:33:04 PM)

As you are in mid43, are these ship replacements for MSW which were sunk earlier (see rule15.1.1)? If so, the port of arrival (Soerabaja) is probably under Japanese control in which case they can't arrive until it is back under Allied control (see rule 15.5)
Michael




michaelm -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 1:54:02 PM)

The code has been changed (tac > 243) to allow Allied carrier capable in slots 244 to 249.

Michael




Admiral DadMan -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 2:50:46 PM)

Scenarios with 12/7/41 start:

3146 West Virginia should be class 181 Colorado


Class Name Corrections:

1217-1218 should be Tennessee, not California
1219-1221 should be Colorado, not Maryland




Admiral DadMan -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 2:53:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bgibs

CVEBlock Island STILL has no air groups. Dis it historicaly not have an air group?


USS Block Island (CVE-106) was one of four Commencement Bay class escort carriers that were equipped with Marine Squadrons for direct support during amphibious assaults. Block Island was the only one that carrier night fighters.

Each ship carried a composite Marine Air Group that consisted of:
A Group Headquarters, called a Marine Carrier Air Group (MCVG)
A Fighter Squadron
A Torpedo Bomber Squadron
A Carrier Aircraft Service Detachment (CASD) that was directly attached to (and numbered with) the MCVG.
Note that some or all of the fighter squadrons were equipped with FM-2 prior to deployment but it APPEARS that all were
equipped with Corsairs (F4U-1 or FG-1) before deployment. In addition, each VMF(CVS) was assigned two F6F-5P photo-recon fighters, but these are not represented in WITP.


These Ships and their airgroups were:

Block Island: MCVG-1
VMF(CVS)-511 with 10 F4U-1 and 8 F6F-3N
VMTB(CVS)-233 with 12 TBM

Gilbert Islands: MCVG-2
VMF(CVS)-512 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-143 with 12 TBM

Vella Gulf: MCVG-3
VMF(CVS)-513 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-234 with 12 TBM

Cape Gloucester: MCVG-4
VMF(CVS)-351 with 16 F4U-1
VMTB(CVS)-132 with 12 TBM


Four more groups were being prepared for the invasion of Japan but were not yet ready when the war ended. The first two had joined their CVEs and working up, the last two were still ashore

Salerno Bay: MCVG-5 with VMF(CVS)-514 and VMTB(CVS)-144

Puget Sound: MCVG-6 with VMF(CVS)-321 and VMTB(CVS)-454

Rendova: MCVG-7 with VMF(CVS)-216 and VMTB(CVS)-624

Point Cruz: MCVG-8 with VMF(CVS)-217 and VMTB(CVS)-464


I see what he's talking about; Block Island (slot 3109) is without an airgroup.




Ron Saueracker -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 4:38:39 PM)

Here is a wrench in the machinery. I've played this game about a dozen times into late 42 and countless times to mid 42. I've yet to notice a British CV withdrawl requirement, more importantly, a fleet carrier! Has this even been coded into the game? I don't think so.

Major problem then folks. While checking into this, I clarified a few things. The Illustrious, Formidable and Indomitable arrive between Jan - Apr 42 gametime. They are then available to the Allies for the rest of the game. Well, historically, Formidable and Indomitable were available by April 42, no problem here, but I'm sure Illustrious was undergoing repairs/refitting in Norfolk, Virginia until December 42!! She is not scheduled to arrive in the Indian Ocean until approx Feb, 1944. Further, both Indomitable and Formidable were withdrawn for "Ironside" (the Madagascar operation) in the spring of 42 and did not arrive back until 2nd quarter of 44 (Formidable)and 4th quarter of 44 for Indomitable!

Made a date Booboo with Illustrious. Crossed over two ship histories and typo'd a year. Illustrious WAS in Indian Ocean region during the period the game states. My bad.

This is a huge issue, especially for the already pressured Japanese player. These CVs should be part of the withdrawl requirement, especially since they were earmarked for the Med and the Malta convoys of mid 42.

I propose that CVs should have a PP cost of 2500, CVLs 2000, CVEs 1500. The probability of withdrawl (CVs worth 2500 PPs) should be high starting in May/42 until July/42.

What if Japan advances on India? The ability to pay PP instead of withdrawl is there but it carries a heavy cost for India if they go and heavy cost for Allied cause if they stay(Malta falls most likely). CV withdrawls are vital to the game.

This brings up another issue which I've been advocating. This CV oversight was made despite the Capiutal nature of their type. If this was overlooked, how many other ships and type of ships are available to combat lowly Japan when historically where not available for large portions of the game? Withdrawls should include smaller warships as the RN is short of DD types. Merchants should be included as well given their nomadic service.

Finally, the USN needs a withdrawl requirement. Too many USN ships are available to combat Japan. Panama needed defences, yet the very ships which defended the canal are being used by the Allied player in the Solomons, DEI, North Pacific etc...for the entire duration of the war!! Omahas, Clemsons, and smaller escorts like SCs would be required to withdraw randomly between Jan 42 and Jan 44.

It's not just the Omaha class CLs, Clemson class DDs and smaller escorts which need be included due to their involvement off map near Panama. Ships which used American ports when damaged in the Pacific did not necessarily go to WestCoast yards. Many went to the EastCoast yards and operated for a time in pother theatres before arriving back in the Pacific (eg. Nevada, Marblehead, Boise). There should be some small chance that a heavily damaged ship entering a WestCoast port triggers a withdrawl requirement for that specific ship).

Finally,the USN built so many ships that crews needed training so older types were withdrawn from combat. Older subs were therefore withdrawn for training, starting in mid 42 for Dolphin and Cachalot class, early 43 for S Boats, late 43 for Porpoise/Permit class, late 44 for Salmon/Sargo class, and early 45 for Tambor/Gar class. Since training needs need not be modelled, the classes that were used should be made withdrawl canditates.




Herrbear -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 4:40:22 PM)

A number of ships show the correct number of depth charge racks and throwers but show the turrets as 2. Shouldn't the turrets be 1?




pry -> RE: 1.40 OOB Issues (12/18/2004 4:46:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

MSW Jan van Amstel
MSW Pieter de Bitter
MSW Abraham Crijinssen

All have port of arrival 'unknown' (in mid '43).

Also, USN ML Ogalala: in any reference I have ever seen or read her name was spelled 'Oglala'. You probably have better references than I have to double check.


Respawned ships must have their countries home port in this case Soerabaja in their possession or they will not arrive and will be listed as Unknown unitl the base is back in Allied hands.

I'll fix Oglala's name...




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