Reworked: Attila (Full Version)

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xoid -> Reworked: Attila (10/18/2004 1:27:41 PM)

Hello guys, long time lurker here. I downloaded the 'beta' extended database and I've managed to increase the BMT, heat dissipitation, and decrease the cost of the Attila. The only quirks I came across were the +1 AP on the head for the -1 AP on the CBT, and a -5% mod on piloting checks.

This is the one from the 'beta' extended database:

Titan Name: Attila Close Combat Light Titan
Chassis: Morola L2 Design: J.A.S.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 9 [meter]
Bmt : 22 (54 kph) Reduce Heat: -3.04C/sec.
No Jump Ports Cost : 157878($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine : Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CT ]
HeatReg.: Delinit H7 [Heat 7]
Flares : FL Small [Flare1] [Head]
LifeSup.: Livotto [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner : CyberSys S [Scan. 1] [LT ]
Computer: Krios K5 [Comp. 5] [RT ]
E.C.M. : Lios [E.C.M. 2] [LT ]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[RA ] MEDIUM LASER
[LA ] MEDIUM LASER
[RA ] POWER AXE
[LA ] POWER AXE


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy HMAX 017 [025mm]
[RT ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[CT ] (19) Dullaroy (S) 027 [039mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium (W) 018 [030mm]
[LT ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[RA ] (17) Vicenium (S) 027 [045mm]
[LA ] (17) Vicenium (S) 027 [045mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[RL ] (15) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[LL ] (15) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]

Armor Index: 5.84 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 158 [APts]
External: 251 [APts] Max:[051mm]
Total Armor: 409 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Light Titan
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Defense Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : Medic



This is my reworking of the Attila:

Titan Name: Attila Mk. II Close Combat Light Titan
Chassis: Morola L4 Design: J.A.S.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 9 [meter]
Bmt : 20 (60 kph) Reduce Heat: -3.11C/sec.
No Jump Ports Cost : 157320($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine : Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CT ]
HeatReg.: Smac Corp. [Heat 5]
Flares : FL Small [Flare1] [Head]
LifeSup.: Livotto [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner : CyberSys S [Scan. 1] [LT ]
Computer: Krios K5 [Comp. 5] [RT ]
E.C.M. : Lios [E.C.M. 2] [LT ]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[RA ] MEDIUM LASER
[LA ] MEDIUM LASER
[RA ] POWER AXE
[LA ] POWER AXE


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy (W) 018 [026mm]
[RT ] (19) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]
[CT ] (19) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium (W) 017 [029mm]
[LT ] (19) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]
[RA ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[LA ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[RL ] (17) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]
[LL ] (17) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]

Armor Index: 5.96 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 166 [APts]
External: 251 [APts] Max:[057mm]
Total Armor: 417 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Light Titan
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Defense Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : Medic




Thorgrim -> RE: Reworked: Attila (10/21/2004 2:00:22 PM)

Trade-offs. Do you want to be fast or stable? In here the stability loss is "only" 5% (doubled for dodges), and the design doesn't have JPs. The occasional charge, BRG hit, or big leg hit, but no DfA checks, or airborne hits. Still, it's a CC titan. The MLs do have some range though, and they are mounted on the arms, so it's a good alternative.
The heat diss and cost improvements are minor (so is the slightly higher max climb), the real advantages are the BMT, extra internals on the arms and legs, and smaller heat reg.




Sleeping_Dragon -> RE: Reworked: Attila (10/25/2004 6:30:01 AM)

Nice changes for the Attila, but like Iceman mentioned it's largely a matter of personal choice for the changes you've made. Your version has more internal armor and a smaller HR but trades it off for a worse handling modifier. If you squad make up works so that you use the MLs more I like your version best, for an Attila that charges straignt into HtH I like the one with better handling.... Actually for my playstyle I like your version better.[:D]




aquietfrog -> RE: Reworked: Attila (10/25/2004 12:55:07 PM)

what i want is an attila with jump ports.




xoid -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/17/2006 2:46:48 PM)

Sorry for practicing thread necromancy, but I've come up with (another) reworking of the Attilla. I'm pretty certain that the Mk. III is better than the one from Iceman's updated database. It has all of the benefits of the Mk. II, without the -5% piloting modifier. Again, there is still the +1 armour to the Head & LowT, and the -2 armour to CBT. I personally think these weaknesses on the Mk. III are negligible compared to benefits over the original.

Attila from Iceman's updated database:

Titan Name: Attila Close Combat Light Titan
Chassis: Morola L2 Design: J.A.S.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 9 [meter]
Bmt : 22 (54 kph) Reduce Heat: -3.04C/sec.
No Jump Ports Cost : 157878($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine : Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CT ]
HeatReg.: Delinit H7 [Heat 7]
Flares : FL Small [Flare1] [Head]
LifeSup.: Livotto [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner : CyberSys S [Scan. 1] [LT ]
Computer: Krios K5 [Comp. 5] [RT ]
E.C.M. : Lios [E.C.M. 2] [CBT ]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[RA ] MEDIUM LASER
[LA ] MEDIUM LASER
[RA ] POWER AXE
[LA ] POWER AXE


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy HMAX 017 [025mm]
[RT ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[CT ] (19) Dullaroy (S) 027 [039mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium (W) 018 [030mm]
[LT ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[RA ] (17) Vicenium (S) 027 [045mm]
[LA ] (17) Vicenium (S) 027 [045mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[RL ] (15) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[LL ] (15) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]

Armor Index: 5.84 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 158 [APts]
External: 251 [APts] Max:[051mm]
Total Armor: 409 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Light Titan
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Defense Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : Medic

My old reworking:

Titan Name: Attila Mk. II Close Combat Light Titan
Chassis: Morola L4 Design: J.A.S.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 9 [meter]
Bmt : 20 (60 kph) Reduce Heat: -3.11C/sec.
No Jump Ports Cost : 157260($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine : Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CT ]
HeatReg.: Smac Corp. [Heat 5]
Flares : FL Small [Flare1] [Head]
LifeSup.: Livotto [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner : CyberSys S [Scan. 1] [LT ]
Computer: Krios K5 [Comp. 5] [RT ]
E.C.M. : Lios [E.C.M. 2] [CBT ]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[RA ] MEDIUM LASER
[LA ] MEDIUM LASER
[RA ] POWER AXE
[LA ] POWER AXE


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy (W) 018 [026mm]
[RT ] (19) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]
[CT ] (19) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]
[CBT ] (13) Vicenium (W) 016 [027mm]
[LT ] (19) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]
[RA ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[LA ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium (W) 028 [047mm]
[RL ] (17) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]
[LL ] (17) Millenia (W) 027 [054mm]

Armor Index: 5.96 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 166 [APts]
External: 251 [APts] Max:[057mm]
Total Armor: 417 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Light Titan
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Defense Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : Medic

My new reworking:

Titan Name: Attila Mk. III Close Combat Light Titan
Chassis: Morola L3 Design: J.A.S.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum) Height : 9 [meter]
Bmt : 21 (57 kph) Reduce Heat: -3.11C/sec.
No Jump Ports Cost : 155260($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine : Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CT ]
HeatReg.: Smac Corp. [Heat 5]
Flares : FL Small [Flare1] [Head]
LifeSup.: Livotto [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner : CyberSys M [Scan. 2] [LT ]
Computer: Krios K5 [Comp. 5] [RT ]
E.C.M. : Lios [E.C.M. 2] [CBT ]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[RA ] MEDIUM LASER
[LA ] MEDIUM LASER
[RA ] POWER AXE
[LA ] POWER AXE


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy HMAX 018 [026mm]
[RT ] (17) Millenia MAX 027 [054mm]
[CT ] (21) Millenia MAX 027 [054mm]
[CBT ] (11) Vicenium (S) 016 [027mm]
[LT ] (17) Millenia MAX 027 [054mm]
[RA ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[LA ] (19) Vicenium (W) 027 [045mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium (W) 028 [047mm]
[RL ] (17) Millenia MAX 027 [054mm]
[LL ] (17) Millenia MAX 027 [054mm]

Armor Index: 5.90 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 162 [APts]
External: 251 [APts] Max:[054mm]
Total Armor: 413 [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Light Titan
Weapons : Energy C.C.
Warfare : Defense Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : Medic




Thorgrim -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/17/2006 4:22:48 PM)

Nice job. There's also a reduction of side torso internals, but more CT internals and the better scanner are very good. Sadly it lost a lot of CBT protection, which is crucial for a CC design.




Burzmali -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/18/2006 2:35:10 AM)

Why the massive comp? It's not like it helps in CC...




xoid -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/18/2006 6:11:51 AM)

I was actually trying to match yours exactly in terms of all systems other than the Heat Reg. (In other words, the bigger scanner was unintentional.)

EDIT:
Three possible alterations of the Mk. III:

Attila Mk. III - Alternate A:
After screwing around a bit more, it's possible to get +1AP to the CBT by moving the ECM to the LT, dropping 2mm of armour from LowT and adding 2mm of armour to the CBT. (You could also let the LowT go down to 26 AP to increase CBT to 18 AP. The LowT is relatively hard to hit and having only 1 AP less than the rest of the front facing might turn out to be of little significance.)

This would add a little more protection to the CBT, but does moving the ECM introduce a weakness of it's own? I personally would say "yes" - the fact that systems are spread out gives less incentive for a called shot on certain locations.

Attila Mk. III - Alternate B:
With some rearranging of systems, mix 'n' matching of armour types AND downgrading the scanner, you can get a total of +1 AP to both LT and RT, -0.05C to heat dissipitation and a slight increase in cost.

I don't think losing Scanner 2 for +1AP to both RT and LT is worth it.

Attila Mk. III - Alternate C:
Downgrade the BC by 1. Use Titanium on the CBT and you can get AP at about 20.

If you are adamant about more AP on the CBT, this is probably the smartest option. There is a slightly longer lock time and it's less accurate with the medium lasers, but if you are going into CC a lot then you get rather high accuracy simply by being at point blank range.




xoid -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/18/2006 7:41:18 AM)

The big BC gives you:

  • Fast(er) target locking
  • Accuracy with the Med. Lasers


I'd have downgraded it on the Mk. III, but I personally prefer having the option of igniting forest hexes accurately with rookie jocks. Downgrading it to a BC 4 or BC 3 is a decent option for an Attila being used by decent jocks. There is a lot you can do with 1 ton free on the Attila, you can fill up that ton by:

  • Upgrading E.C.M
  • Upgrading flares
  • Upgrading the scanner
  • Etc.




Thorgrim -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/21/2006 4:57:31 PM)

Actually, I was going for a 4th option: [:D]


Titan Name: Attila                Close Combat Light Titan
Chassis: Morola  L3               Design: J.A.S.         
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 70.0t (70t maximum)       Height     : 9 [meter]
Bmt   : 21 (57 kph)               Reduce Heat: -3.11C/sec.
No Jump Ports                     Cost       : 155320($)


Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine  : Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CT  ]
HeatReg.: Smac Corp.  [Heat 5]
Flares  : FL Small    [Flare1] [LT  ]
LifeSup.: Livotto     [Life 1] [Head]
Scanner : CyberSys M [Scan. 2] [Head]
Computer: Krios K5   [Comp. 5] [RT  ]
E.C.M.  : Lios      [E.C.M. 2] [LT  ]


Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/Slots

[RA  ]  MEDIUM LASER        
[LA  ]  MEDIUM LASER        
[RA  ]  POWER AXE           
[LA  ]  POWER AXE           


Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Status/Points/mm

[Head] (11) Dullaroy  HMAX 018 [026mm]
[RT  ] (17) Millenia  MAX  027 [054mm]
[CT  ] (21) Millenia  MAX  027 [054mm]
[CBT ] (11) Vicenium  (W)  018 [030mm]
[LT  ] (17) Millenia  MAX  027 [054mm]
[RA  ] (19) Vicenium  (W)  026 [044mm]
[LA  ] (19) Vicenium  (W)  026 [044mm]
[LowT] (13) Vicenium  (W)  028 [047mm]
[RL  ] (17) Millenia  MAX  027 [054mm]
[LL  ] (17) Millenia  MAX  027 [054mm]

Armor Index:   5.90 [Total APts/T]
Internal:    162  [APts]
External:    251  [APts]   Max:[054mm]
Total Armor: 413  [APts]


JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: Light Titan                      
Weapons : Energy  C.C.                     
Warfare : Defense  Scanner  Warfare(ECM)   
Skills  : Medic                            



Moved some APs from the arms (since they gained some internals and you can't punch anyway) to the CBT.
Moved the systems around a bit, to get the scanner to the head for better protection. The ECM is not much of a problem, especially being paired with the flares IMO.
I'm "worried" about CBT protection because 2 aimed CS hits will put it out of the fight. They still do with these changes, and I'm considering further reducing arm armor for more CBT protection. Notice that arm armor still has a positive balance relative to the original config.
Also notice this is not my design, and I'm trying to keep this database "free" of personal taste (not just from me), and building the designs as they "should" in terms of role. Players are free to adapt the designs to their playing style.




Thorgrim -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/21/2006 5:05:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xoid

The big BC gives you:

  • Fast(er) target locking
  • Accuracy with the Med. Lasers




Yep, the BC is more than an attack bonus [:D]
Also, the better the computer, the better its shielding against EMP.


quote:


I'd have downgraded it on the Mk. III, but I personally prefer having the option of igniting forest hexes accurately with rookie jocks.


It doesn't add that much of a bonus to the shot, compared to the bonus for firing at woods, and it doesn't affect the chance to start a fire (which is not very good for the ML, especially when it's windy). But all in all, it's the best option IMO (compared to improving any other system or armor).




Burzmali -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/22/2006 3:20:31 AM)

Personally, I like my CC ATs with jump jets, as a DfA can't be countercharged and has a decent chance of knocking around the enemy jock, but I don't think dropping the BC down even to 1 or 0 would be enough to install a JP... Failing that, the scanning bonus does count for CC attacks, as best I recall, so I would trade down the BC for that and ECM.




Thorgrim -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/22/2006 11:53:08 AM)

It can't be countercharged, but it can be countered. By shooting at a DfA'ing titan, chances are you'll hit the legs or LoT, which are the bodyparts that offer the best chance for instability.
The scanner bonus does count for CC attacks, even though it really shouldn't, since those bonuses are lost when the BC is destroyed.
Still, no BC, -25% with the MLs. So there's really no point IMO.




Burzmali -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/23/2006 5:36:50 AM)

Well, using the run and stomp helps with that, run into the opponent's hex without charging, attack, then immediately jump up then down. You total air time is only around 6-8 seconds (half of which you are on the ground for) and while the enemy is trying to run out the hex you are safe from counterattacks.




Thorgrim -> RE: Reworked: Attila (2/23/2006 1:03:11 PM)

Well, like I said, you can always counter a DfA, regardless of air time. Especially if you have better jump ports than your opponent.




Thorgrim -> RE: Reworked: Attila (12/14/2006 6:03:09 PM)

*bump*




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