RE: Tips thread (Full Version)

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Tzar007 -> RE: Tips thread (2/25/2004 4:30:05 AM)

From MarkShot:

That concludes my series on using the interface to construct large complex plans. I always do this with the game paused. There may have been more material in the pre-hacked posts, but I did the best I could to recall the material from the screenshots that I had.

Tzar007 -> RE: Tips thread (2/25/2004 4:31:04 AM)

From MarkShot:

02/18/04 - This post is very significant as it represents the first new tip since the great hacking fiasco of 2003! :)

Here goes ... The other day I was beta testing. Now, I had planned a nice little massed force attack. It comprised a rear mortar fire base, an intermediate line of heavy weapons for support, and an infantry attack force. I was pretty pleased with it.

However, it failed miserably! :( For hours (6-8 hours), as my troops tried to get this organized they got hit by one mortar volley or arty barrage after another! In the meantime, my commanders had not a single enemy contact to report. How incredibly frustrating!

And how did that happen? Well, it happened due to differential LOS/sighting. (By the way, I borrowed that term from the Combat Mission forums where I saw it.) This means that just because they can see you doesn't mean that you can see them. HTTR implements this ... however, I am not too sure of the exact details.

I have used a trick of taking one of my save games (I usually have many given my play style) and surrendering at that point so that I could see what things looked like.

Here you see my forces and an enemy company dug-in to the North at Nicoline. Well, I never saw them until my botched attack was well underway, but by then my operation was already doomed to fail. However, they clearly knew everything I was doing as their brutal bombardments of my forces certainly indicated.


(1) Beware setting up in open ground.

(2) Beware setting up at low elevations.

(3) Beware differential LOS.

{I have changed my map textures to use the RDOA Classis Look for this screenshot.}


MarkShot -> RE: HTTR (mini-guide): And even more tips! (3/4/2004 3:46:49 PM)


I know I said thank you already, but I just wanted to say it once again. You more than anyone made this recovery possible!

Arjuna -> RE: HTTR (mini-guide): And even more tips! (3/4/2004 11:57:28 PM)

Here, here! THANK YOU UGO![:)]

Tzar007 -> RE: HTTR (mini-guide): And even more tips! (3/5/2004 3:39:31 AM)

Thanks guys ! [:D]

It was a pleasure to do it. It has also improved my performance at HTTR since I had not time to read it all before the forum was hacked.

Now let's continue to populate these threads with tips ![8D]

The_MadMan -> RE: HTTR (mini-guide): And even more tips! (3/18/2004 3:19:14 PM)

Great tips, very interesting to read!

MarkShot -> RE: HTTR (mini-guide): And even more tips! (3/18/2004 8:55:55 PM)

Glad you enjoyed it!

Now, get out there and give some orders before you're surrounded!

perpster -> RE: HTTR (mini-guide): And even more tips! (3/19/2004 4:39:26 AM)

FWIW, Google maintains extensive caches of webpages. If you search for the thread on Google, click on the "Cached" hyperlink if you find a match--it MIGHT have caches of pre-hack pages.

The_MadMan -> RE: HTTR (mini-guide): And even more tips! (3/19/2004 9:33:24 AM)



Glad you enjoyed it!

Now, get out there and give some orders before you're surrounded!

I never played this kind of game before so I hope I like it!

MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/27/2004 2:23:04 AM)

Tzar007 asked elsewhere:


Here is a situation that makes me mad:

I need to hold on to an objective, so I garrison it with appropriate forces. Then the damned AI blast them continuously with some damn heavy arty hidden somewhere in the bushes God knows where. It's an easy target for him since they are immobile at the objective. This makes me crazy.

I sent 1 or 2 units in recon in the area to try to spot the bastards but to no avail (my recon units get repulsed easily as soon as they meet some opposition).

What do you do guys in such a situation? I am now thinking about gathering a task force to go around and clean up forcefully the whole area, but this is a long process and my forces are stretched thin for now anyway (I am playing the Eindhoven Campaign as Allies, and I need to hold on all the objectives placed along the highway, so I don't have much forces to spare beating the bushes around the highway).

My thoughts:

There are two components to being hit by arty:

(1) The battery.

(2) Those who report your position to the battery.

Forget about finding and silencing the battery. That is only achievable in a meeting engagement against the AI or if the AI foolishly parades its guns out in the open; which it will do on occassion. In a meeting engagement, you have a pretty good idea from where the AI will start and if its guns are in range, they may very well stay put. (But probably still not worth the effort to locate them.)

You have a better chance of dealing with item #2; those who report your position. A layered defense will tend to keep the AI away from your main defensive formation and its guns will hammer at what little they can see as their probes contact your screen. In the mean time, the main defensive formation will be in ear shot of the barrage and just keep digging in deeper. The more dug-in they get, the better they will deal with attacks and arty.

Additionally, you want to try to avoid setting up camp in areas with large fields of LOS. Although good for stopping attacks on your position, it's bad for keeping a low profile of those who will call in a barrage.

You might also try establishing defensive positions at night when LOS is limited, arty stocks are possibly low, and you have some time to dig-in.

Another general strategy towards the scenarios which does have some relationship with arty vulnerability is this (I am assuming that a large portion of your points are of the completion variety):

(1) Give priority to those objectives which are wooded or BUA. These areas will be the hardest to take if the enemy gets time to dig-in. So, make sure that you are the one who gets time to dig-in.

(2) Remove priority from those objectives which are in open terrain. These objectives will be hard to defend and most likely cause you to suffer significant attrition by virtue of your exposure.

(3) Towards the end of the scenario seize the objectives in open terrain. During the scenario two things will have happened. First, you should have attrited the enemy who tried to take the more easily defended than attacked objectives away from you. Second, the number of defenders at the easy to attack objectives and previously unthreatened should be relatively light. Defenders tend to go where they are needed and leave behind that which is secure.

Arjuna -> RE: Tips thread (3/27/2004 2:58:27 AM)


(1) Give priority to those objectives which are wooded or BUA. These areas will be the hardest to take if the enemy gets time to dig-in. So, make sure that you are the one who gets time to dig-in.

A word of caution. Arty fire into woods is "enhanced" ( 115% ) because of the "tree burst" effect - ie the rounds hit the branches and detonate creating an air burst which is more deadly than detonating on the ground. This can be offset by digging in, but units not dug in or better will be very vulnerable. Thus for arty protection purposes it's best to deploy your defences in urban terrain rather than woods.

However, woods offer other advantages, such as concealment and protection from direct fire and sometimes you have no better option.

MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/29/2004 3:07:19 PM)

I know I have addressed this in my tips, but I thought I would reraise it here as it is a clear error in the documentation.

Page 41 of states that you can have arty provide on-call support by issuing a [D]efend task and adjust ROF as per your requirements. This is incorrect ROF will always be LOW. The only way to adjust ROF for bombard capable units is manually issue [B]ombard orders.

Mr.Frag -> RE: Tips thread (3/29/2004 3:22:39 PM)


Page 41 of states that you can have arty provide on-call support by issuing a [D]efend task and adjust ROF as per your requirements. This is incorrect ROF will always be LOW. The only way to adjust ROF for bombard capable units is manually issue [B]ombard orders.

Woah there! You telling me that the only way to get heavy Arty is to call it in yourself? Fine by me, but it is a bit of a shock to find out that all the Arty I have left under AI control has been having tea while my grunts bleed out.

MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/29/2004 3:25:48 PM)

ROF was hardcoded to low so that arty would not run out to rapidly; as I understand it.

Mr.Frag -> RE: Tips thread (3/29/2004 3:52:38 PM)



ROF was hardcoded to low so that arty would not run out to rapidly; as I understand it.

I completely understand the logic, but it's one of those little "gotta know" things [;)]

MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/30/2004 6:00:10 PM)


Para rescue? (in reply to MarkShot)

I haven't been able to get better than a draw on this scenario as the Allies. How do you do better?

When I go straight to the Son Bridge it gets blown up every time. Same with the bridge to the east. I find the only way I've been able to secure the bridge intact, and secure the area, is to go waaay east, cross at the unprimed road bridge, and Assault from the East. I can secure the bridge and the obj, but I do not have the strength to take the northern obj.

Any tips?


You are in luck! My stickied AAR/tutorial is precisely that battle.

The keys to taking a bridge:

(1) Don't dilly dally. The longer you take, the more enemy arrive and dig in.

(2) If possible set up road blocks and prevent enemy reinforcements from making it into the engagement area. (Of less consequence, in this particular battle.)

(3) Hit the area with arty and prior to making contact with the defenders and continue it until all is secured. Don't worry about friendly fire, the barrage will let up automatically. Make note of defender positions (entrenched garrisons) at scenario start so that you can hit their positions. I think the intel behavior was or is going to be changed for HTTR that garrison intel reports don't time out; unlike other units.

(4) Make a crisp and decisive attack. Be bold and apply maximum pressure. This is no time for a protracted effort of falling back and rallying the troops again. You may want to employ engineers in the attack to secure the bridge or you may want them to hold back out of harms way until the area is secure and issue separate orders at the appropriate time. Your call.

(5) Avoid overly aggressive recon or troops deployments near the bridge. If the garrison feels too threatened, they will blow the bridge.

I hope that helps.

MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/30/2004 6:48:59 PM)

Today's Topic: Disruption and Harassment

Well, I think I would like to add a new topic to this thread as derived from a fun scenario I played the other day. It made me realize just how important disruption and harassment can be in a commander's repetoire of tools.

These two alone do not have the power to create a victory. However, they can be contributing factors. Effectively, they can alter the key coeifficients of preparedness, support, and coordination that apply to a major confrontation elsewhere on the map.

The two places I applied these was at the enemy's LZ/DZ and in the rear of the enemy's movement and FUP areas.

MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/30/2004 7:06:26 PM)

The DZ/LZ is a place of high enemy vulnerability. He arrives out of formation, disorganized, and totally exposed in largely open ground.

Ideally, if we could, we would love to simply create a pocket out of the area and anihilate him with direct and indirect fires. However, that generally won't be possible as the audacity of the enemy's plan has caught us with our pants down and we are scrambling to cobble together a viable defense with every rag tag unit at our disposal.

So, if we cannot eliminate the enemy as he touches down should we simply accept his landing as a "faite accompli" and move directly towards organizing the defense of his assumed objectives? Not necessarily.

We may lack the strength to mortally wound him, but we certainly can still hope to disrupt him with a small force and some indirect fire. As the off balance defender, we can pursue a strategy of many small blows as opposed to a single decisive blow.

Here is one such example. Over the last 43 minutes, I have been bombarded with reports of an Allied landing in vincinity of Johanna Hoeve. I have but a few hundred men in the vicinity of what looks like to be a few thousands Allied soldiers. They don't train you for stuff like this!

Here take a look.

I'll be back with more later today after lunch and some meetings.


MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/30/2004 9:38:30 PM)

So, what to do?

I order KG Weber, about 90 Luftwaffe personel with rifles, to jump in their trucks and race down Johanna Hoeve and boldly attack right into center of the Allied landing. They will fulfill their orders nobly and suffer high casualties as the result. Over the next thirty something hours while making repeated attacks, they will suffer 65% casualties.

However, their contribution will not have been in vain and many German lives will be saved. By striking hard into the LZ/DZ, they will disrupt the Allied effort to rally and begin the march to their objectives. By virtue of their early on the scene presence, they will allow mortars and later artillery to lay down fire on Allied units when they are exposed and thus most vulnerable.

In particular, the delay they cause by disrupting Allied movement out of Johanna Hoeve, will permit road blocks to be quickly set up to the East on the major highways and routes leading towards the critical bridges. The blocking companies will have time to dig-in and properly meet the Allies. Conversely, the success of the road blocks will allow other units in and around the bridges to prepare their defenses.

KG Weber will not have stopped the Allies from ultimately reaching the areas around the bridges, but KG Weber will have changed the odds to be faced in these fights yet to come.

(more to follow later)


MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/31/2004 1:41:58 AM)

Here we see that KG Weber has retreated and is preparing to attack out from the tree line again. KG Weber lost 12 men in the last drive, but you can see that they also shook up a few Allied units (that and the indirect fire they called in).


MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/31/2004 1:51:20 AM)

At the same time as the screen shot above, I have a platoon of four tanks (PzKwIII J) that are entering the area from the East about 16Km away.

I see another opportunity to disrupt the Allies and quickly issue orders for them to make all due speed along the roads I still control and hit the Allied force in the rear.

They will cause more havoc among the Allies. Thus, further slowing down their advance towards the bridges and reducing their capability to quickly overwhelm the waiting road blocks to the East. The price will be the loss of two tanks. Once again, in the total scheme of things well worth it. As the sun sinks below the horizon, I will withdraw them and save my remaining tank section for creating more mischief the following day.

{It's a little hard to see in the screen capture, but there is a track through the woods up by the FUP big enough to accomodate a platoon of tanks.}


MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/31/2004 2:11:09 AM)

The next morning, my screen in the North West of Arnhem reports Allied units either forming for an attack or attempting to out flank the defenses there.

My tankers got a few hours rest had a few slices of that notorious German army hard bread and black coffee. Not much of a comfort for men who will likely not see another sunrise.

Orders are dispatched and they are to once again to race on secure roads to skirt the general engagement area. Then, they will make a hasty attack bursting out of the trees from behind the Allied force and hit them hard in the rear.

We see their orders here. Once again, there are no false hopes that two tanks will turn back the Allied tide. Just another small action of harassment and disruption; death by a thousand cuts.


MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/31/2004 2:13:49 AM)

Here we see just a brief glimpse of the heroic action by this tank section.

The dispatches from the battle are somewhat confused, but it appears that they managed to catch a couple of mortar platoons and some infantry companies totally by surprise.


MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (3/31/2004 2:26:53 AM)

As a final thought, hitting the enemy in the rear can do more than just surprise him. You are more likely to catch arty, mortar, and HQ units when you do this. Clearly, separating attackers from their fire support (by breaking them or forcing them to bug out) can be very significant. Also, forcing HQ units in direct command of a force to retreat or rout can be paralyzing.

An HQ unit retreating or routing will not perform replans or process new orders. What does this mean? This means that line units which have run into unexpected opposition or are part of an attack that is faltering will not be given updated orders to bypass or fallback and regroup. They are on their own and left to suffer whatever fate the enemy has in store for them. Also, the HQ will not process any new orders at this time. Thus, it effectively lengthens whatever order delays will be experienced by the force which needs to execute new orders. Not a complete decapitation strike, but close enough for our purposes.

Well, that concludes this installment of tips. Remember that a battle can be won with a decisive engagement, but it can also be won through a series of smaller measures each contributing to the overall outcome.

Until next time, may your arty be plentiful and may your tanks not get bogged in the polder! :)

Golf33 -> RE: Using Move instead of Attack (4/1/2004 2:43:30 AM)

The question:

ORIGINAL: Paul Roberts

This raises a further question: what is the cost of attacking when you could just move? Why should we ever use move instead of attack?

I'm assuming that move orders take less time to plan and fulfill, but I'd like to make sure. Does an attack order cause more fatigue even when no enemy is encountered?

The answers:


You have already answered your own question. Move is faster (no FUPing) and a lot less stressful.


In a Move, all units will travel in formation. They will also prioritise fire over movement. In an Attack, some units will remain behind in the reserve location. Units in the actual assault will prioritise movement over fire.

In a Move, your Speed setting will affect how fast all units travel along the entire route. In an Assault, your speed setting will only affect the move to the FUP; the assault will always be undertaken at Fastest speed.

In a Move, your Aggro setting will affect whether your units attempt to bypass (low Aggro) or deploy and engage the enemy (high Aggro). In an Attack, your Aggro setting will only influence what proportion of the force gets held in reserve (I think, have to double-check this one).

In a Move, your units will follow the path you specify, with the Route type you specify, along the whole route. In an Attack, your units will follow the path and Route type you specify to the FUP, but will always follow a Shortest path from there to the objective.

There are some considerations to start you off!



In your very detailed analysis, you neglected to mention that forces ordered to [A]ttack are not required to pay parkway tolls at the toll plazas unlike forces which are simply ordered to [M]ove. [:)]

ORIGINAL: madmickey

One thing that you can do with a move is change the formation type and aggression level without order delay. I also assume that transition time for deploying armor units is faster than for infantry therefore quick moves to control open territory is much better with tanks. Still if I have a 30 combat power formation Is it a waste to attack a 1 combat power unit especially if I am worrying about the enemy moving reinforcement in the time it take me to launch the attack.


Golf33 -> RE: Move, Attack, and Reorg (4/1/2004 3:08:21 AM)

The question:


even a move command is subject to a reorg phase unless you specifically order a formation type of In-Situ (ie: go as you are).

The answers:

Moves aren't subject to a reorg phase as such, but on beginning a Move, they will shake out into whatever formation they have been ordered to adopt which will take a few minutes. It's still not generally the lengthy and vulnerable reorg that happens before an Attack though.

If you order Move In-Situ your troops will stay where they are. I occasionally use this to halt a move already in progress, by setting the formation to In-Situ; doing this does seem to incur orders delay however, as does restarting the move by selecting a different formation. Changes that don't require the whole formation to stop do seem to happen without delay.


If you set the formation type to in-situ for a Move, the force/unit will just stay where it is. It won't more at all. So don't use it for a Move task. ( Perhaps we should make it inactive for a Move task. I'll add that to the wish list ).

Further, a Move is one simple task conducted from the units current locations to the objective. An attack is a complex network of tasks one of which will be an advance to an FUP where units reorg and shake out into assault formation. This reorg does not take place in a straigt Move task. The only reorg task which may be imposed on any other task occurs involuntarily when a unit/force's cohesion is so bad that it must stop temporarily and organise itself.


Golf33 -> RE: Move, Attack, Reorg, and Orders Delays (4/1/2004 3:10:43 AM)

The question:


Ok, now I am royally confused ... why would an order to move NOT be subject to the very same sets of delays that an attack would be except for the actual timing of the kickoff?

Are you saying that I can effectively bypass Painfully realistic orders by running around with line formations each pointed at their own personal spot coordinated by my mouse instead of the command HQ? That doesn't sound right.

The answer:


This is a confusion of terminology. In HTTR, the term "Reorg" refers to a specific type of activity - the reorganisation - which occurs in four specific circumstances only. Units conducting a Reorg are shown with the reorg symbol in the unit task icon ("F4" key). Units will conduct a Reorg only under the following circumstances:

1. After a reinforcement arrives by parachute/glider/aircraft.
2. When a unit's cohesion becomes too low.
3. When ordered to reorg by the player using the Reorg command (hot key "R").
4. When the unit has an Attack task and has reached the FUP, prior to beginning the assault.
<edit - thanks to MarkShot for the reminder:
5. When the unit has an Attack task and has completed the assault and is securing the objective.>

This is separate from Orders Delay, shown as a pink background to the task icon. All fresh orders from the player incur orders delay. Under some circumstances, changing the parameters (Speed, ROF, Aggro, Formation etc) of an existing order may not incur orders delay. Some situations which generally don't incur orders delay are listed below. The list isn't complete, so there is still room for you to experiment and discover some of this for yourself, but in general anything not specifically mentioned below will probably incur orders delay.

Move task
Changing Speed, Route, Aggro, ROF, and Losses.
Changing Frontage, Depth, and Facing.
Changing Formation, except for In-Situ, which does incur orders delay. If you set a Move-ing force to In-Situ, it will incur orders delay, and any further changes you make will not take effect until after it has processed the In-Situ formation order. Similarly, once the force has processed the In-Situ order and stopped moving, if you change the formation type, it will again incur orders delay and once it has processed the change it will start moving again.

Defend task
As for Move tasks.

Attack task
Changing Speed, Route, ROF, and Losses.
Changing Frontage, Depth, or Facing.
Changing Formation (except for In-Situ) during the move to FUP, or sometimes but not always during the assault.

Changing the objective of any task (i.e. the location of the final waypoint, the one that shows the task type), or the FUP of an Attack task (which shows the Reorg task), will always incur orders delay. Like setting In-Situ, no other changes to the order will be processed until after the new location has been processed. However, intermediate waypoints (the ones shown by a small circle with an upward-pointing arrow in it) can be moved without incurring orders delay - so if you are looking to bypass any resistance on a Move, or during the move to FUP phase of an Attack, it's a good idea to plot the route using waypoints every 1000-2000m and send a scout unit ahead. When the scout discovers enemy defences, you can move the waypoints to bypass the enemy.


MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (4/4/2004 1:45:23 AM)


Hi all,
Started the game a couple of weeks ago. Nice game. What I'm getting confused about is when I set waypoints. From A to B I would like to Probe between the points At B reorg and Assault to C. Only the last action is implemented. Did I miss the explanation in the manual? Is the move from A to B Probe by default?


My response:



The game does not implement actions specific to each waypoint. I think Dave had put this on the wishlist for me.

It sounds to me like you are trying to combine the actions of recon and attack together. What I do:

(1) Use a single unit recon element to evaluate whether the route is open and that the FUP is safe for use. The unit terminates its travel at the FUP and keeps an eye on it. I use the [D]efend command for this.

(2) Follow the recon up with an attack order to a force to take the same route and FUP where the recon unit ended. Often you can issue these orders concurrently, since the recon will happen much faster. Later, if there are problems you can change the force's orders. Also, at the start of the game or with reinforcements, you generally have 58 minutes to conduct fast recon and issue orders on the the 59th. minute with no delays. (assuming that you are playing with order delays)

What follows is an example of this technique in action.

MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (4/4/2004 2:03:44 AM)

In this particular situation, the Germans know that the Guards Armor Division are concentrated at Arnhem and plan to seize the Deelen Airfield.

I am assuming that their initial plan will be to block my movement North out of Arnhem. So, I will attempt to flank them and initial attack from the North.

Now, you are only seeing part of my plan as I have deleted any orders other than what I want to illustrate. Also, I am only show units with orders.

Below, you see {left to right} an armored car squadron unit (being used for recon), a light tank unit (being used for recon), and the Irish Guards force (attack force).

The recon units have received the mission to scout the route ahead of the attack force and to verify that the FUP is secure. If they report provide a good report back, then the attack will proceed; if not, I must revise my plans.

All three were given their orders at the scenario start during the period which orders delays are waived. They all started from Arnhem.

I am doing recon with two units, since I wanted to explore two slightly different paths to the FUP. The first path was quicker, but risked detection by the Germans. The second path was slower, but pretty much was out of LOS from the Germans. Thus, you can see that the two recon units have traveled different distances from Arnhem (bottom right).

It is also important to note that the attack force is traveling much slower than either of them as it moves by bounding overwatch.

In the next series of posts, I'll show you the individual orders.


MarkShot -> RE: Tips thread (4/4/2004 2:06:00 AM)

Recon mission #1 ...


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