Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (Full Version)

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RichG -> Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/4/2019 9:57:45 PM)

I hope Matrix don't mind me posting this here, but I believe a lot of people may miss the post at the Battlefront forum.

It appears that a lot of people who have made on-line payments to Battlefront since the release of Combat Mission Shock Force 2, which coincided with them moving to new servers, have had unauthorised / fraudulent payments taken from their credit cards or Paypal accounts.

If you have made any purchases in the last couple of months with Battlefront please check your cards and read this thread:
http://community.battlefront.com/topic/134447-fradulent-credit-card-transactions/

A good number of their customers appear to have been effected so it is much bigger than just a coincidence.




Titanwarrior89 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/4/2019 10:28:56 PM)

[:-]




demyansk -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/4/2019 10:59:38 PM)

Good job letting everyone know. Glad I didn't buy.




z1812 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/5/2019 3:42:02 PM)

Battlefront has done a thorough investigation, as any company would if there was any chance their payment arrangements were compromised. No problems were found.

I, along with many others have recently made game purchases without problems.

If you are concerned, check the link the OP provided and read the posts. You will find that Battlefront has been very upfront about their procedures and the steps they have taken to ensure their payment arrangements are secure.





rico21 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/5/2019 5:19:16 PM)

It's really sad to be robbed twice, once buying the game, a second time for buying it.[:(]




demyansk -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/5/2019 7:12:21 PM)

Great
quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

It's really sad to be robbed twice, once buying the game, a second time for buying it.[:(]





ezzler -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/5/2019 11:24:35 PM)

I bought from there at Xmas.
had card hacked about two weeks later.

its a business card. So wasn't used anywhere else.

Might just be coincidence. But i'm glad people are made awarwe.




rico21 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/6/2019 9:10:30 AM)

I feel very sensitized.
When I buy a good game, I'm ready to be stolen 3 times.[:)]




Rising-Sun -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/6/2019 9:45:11 AM)

Someone or a group must have breach their site and taken customer infos. I got hit on that ebay, that ebay saying they couldnt see the problems. So if they (any sites) cant seem to protect customer infos, then there a risk.

All you have to do is either make a paypal separate account that cannot go negative and/or bank account on secondary to transfer funds for online purposes. On the bank statements, make sure it is locked, so it cannot go negative or ended up paying for those overdraft fees.




BletchleyGeek -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/7/2019 10:57:16 AM)

Steve Grammont has posted an update on this matter, detailing the actions pursued in response to the concerns raised and his position on the matter:

quote:


If anybody is inclined to post REAL information to threads like the one on Matrix, here's the summary of where we're at:

1. A tiny fraction of customers who placed orders in the past 2 months have chimed in here to say their credit cards had fraudulent charges placed in the beginning of January. This includes my own card which, one would be correct to assume, was never used to purchase anything from Battlefront.com. Which means some sort of group compromise happened AND that it includes people that have not placed an order with Battlefront.com.

2. Battlefront never has, and never will, collect customer credit card information. Instead, credit card information goes direct from a customer's browser to our payment processor (PayPal/PayFlow). All Battlefront gets is a report from the processor which gives the transaction a thumbs up or thumbs down along with some transaction codes. Since someone can't steal what we don't have, there's absolutely no chance in a billion years that credit card information was taken from our server.

3. While it is theoretically possible to hack our website and change the order processing script to have the customer's browser hijack credit card info, this has already been checked by our webstore host and there have been no changes to our scripts. They checked twice, in fact, because I asked them to.

4. If anybody thinks they are immune from massive data breaches like these, think again. It must be remembered that nearly a billion online accounts were documented to have been breached in 2018. Most of us have had a credit or bank card compromised more than once (I had an ATM card physically skimmed, including PIN). Even those who think they haven't had a card compromised have probably received a replacement credit card out of the blue. That means the card company thinks your card has likely been compromised and is proactively replacing it.

5. Some think that the tiny fraction of customers who had a credit card compromised AND placed an order for CMSF2 couldn't be a coincidence. Which is wrong on so many levels. First, most of the people reporting in say they bought a CMSF2 product, which isn't surprising since that's the biggest selling group of products in the time period covered. Obvious coincidence. Second, my credit card was also hit with fraud charges at the very same time in a very similar way as the others noted here, but I've never used it to purchase items from Battlefront.com. Obvious coincidence. Third, timing of a specific purchase and a fraud charge inherently means nothing because a card used years ago, and stored somewhere, is just as vulnerable as a card used 5 seconds ago. Trying to tie a specific transaction to a specific breach is, therefore, not straight forward and is prone to being coincidental. Fact is, Humans are thoroughly documented to be very poor evaluators of cause/effect and extremely prone to incorrectly finding meaning in something that has none. Be it religion, "lucky" lottery numbers, bad things happen after a black cat crosses ones' path, two people in a room of 30 having the same birthday is noteworthy, etc.

With that said, because the world is a very complex and nasty place when it comes to cyber security, I can not 100% rule out someone somehow got a hold of a tiny slice of customer payment data one time for a limited time. Nor can I rule out winning the lottery if I pick up a discarded ticket on the sidewalk. Which is why I will always check into the possibility of a customer breach just as I will always pick up a discarded lottery ticket.

Steve






rico21 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/7/2019 11:22:04 AM)

I find it really sad to use credit card problems to say that a game is bad.
Whereas it suffices to say that:
"This game is not good!"




JamesHunt -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/7/2019 5:16:10 PM)

This thread is ridiculous.

A "Lot of people" "a good number", "not a coincidence" everything based on assumptions fabricated by the OP itself without having source information to rely on.

Sure stating that it 100% was not BFīs fault isnīt possible as it never is in such cases when some guys step up that their CC got hit. But for such incidences in my opinion the very first step is always apply "in dubio pro reo" not jumping into conclusions and final judging wihtout having any insight. From my perspective Battlefront did everything to provide transparency and they stated that they consulted with their security responsibles and also stated that that they couldnīt find any possible threat or breach and that 99% of their credid card purchases went trough without anybody calling out an issue.

One could argue that this is meant as being an "informative thread" but if you check the OPīs post history he is extremely busy with taking a dump on everything Combat Mission relevant here. For me the act alone to create a thread with a clickbaity title on a companyīs direct competitor site is rather a douche move with raises the suspicion that his main intention is to bring damage to the game company he has personal issues with. And perhaps getting some drama sensations from causing bad blood between Matrix and Battlefront.




rico21 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/7/2019 5:40:39 PM)

Battlefront sells us its new Combat Mission, taking care not to sell the old ones and to prevent them from being updated.
So no, we do not need credit card history to dislike them.[sm=00000002.gif]




MOS96B2P -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/7/2019 7:28:19 PM)

I bought Battlefront's Combat Mission Shock Force 2 with a credit card (as did several of my friends) and we had no problems. In fact Battlefront has an expansion for Combat Mission Fortress Italy in the works (Rome to Victory) and I will purchase that as soon as they start taking orders. No worries.

In the past I have bought from both Battlefront and Slitherine / Matrix with both credit cards and Paypal and never had problems. I'm happy with Slitherine / Matrix and Battlefront and as far as I know none of these companies are to blame for what appears to be the seasonal increase in credit card fraud.




76mm -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/7/2019 7:45:01 PM)

Well, while we're on the topic of credit card fraud, Matrix's payment service provider (BluePoint) stores my credit card info every time I make a purchase at Matrix, even though I ask them not to. Having Bluepoint store my CC info makes it that much more likely that someone could steal it from there. I have raised this point with both BluePoint and Matrix several times now, but as of the last time I ordered, lo and behold BluePoint had stored my CC info once again. I am getting very frustrated that BluePoint and Matrix do not seem to be taking the of CC data security very seriously.




demyansk -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/7/2019 11:20:33 PM)

I agree




BletchleyGeek -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/8/2019 2:04:30 AM)



quote:

I am getting very frustrated that BluePoint and Matrix do not seem to be taking the of CC data security very seriously.


TBH these days I just use PayPal - linking payments to a non overdraft bank account as wisely suggested above - or Amazon to pay stuff in the Internet.




RichG -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/8/2019 9:46:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JamesHunt
if you check the OPīs post history he is extremely busy with taking a dump on everything Combat Mission


James, having looked through my post history you will see I have three mentions of Battlefronts broken V4 update and the length of time it is taking to get a fix. This is hardly "extremely busy with taking a dump on everything CM". In fact, i have in the past highly praised Battlefront and the CM games, and I should add, I want to see them succeed.

You will also have seen that I have been critical of Matrix own security in relation to this very website. This is hardly partisan behavior. Highlighting potential security/privacy/fraud risks should be encouraged. We put up with far too much bad practice in general on the internet and that is only to the advantage of those scumbags who wish to profit from such weaknesses.




Yogi the Great -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/8/2019 11:13:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Well, while we're on the topic of credit card fraud, Matrix's payment service provider (BluePoint) stores my credit card info every time I make a purchase at Matrix, even though I ask them not to. Having Bluepoint store my CC info makes it that much more likely that someone could steal it from there. I have raised this point with both BluePoint and Matrix several times now, but as of the last time I ordered, lo and behold BluePoint had stored my CC info once again. I am getting very frustrated that BluePoint and Matrix do not seem to be taking the of CC data security very seriously.


I agree, however I believe you are given the choice the first time you order (with new card) as with many vendors. The problem is that there is a box that has to be checked for this and the default is that the box is checked which means you would have to notice that and uncheck the box. Pain in the rear as sooner or later when placing an order you can easily forget to "uncheck" the box.




z1812 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/8/2019 5:04:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichG

quote:

ORIGINAL: JamesHunt
if you check the OPīs post history he is extremely busy with taking a dump on everything Combat Mission


James, having looked through my post history you will see I have three mentions of Battlefronts broken V4 update and the length of time it is taking to get a fix. This is hardly "extremely busy with taking a dump on everything CM". In fact, i have in the past highly praised Battlefront and the CM games, and I should add, I want to see them succeed.

You will also have seen that I have been critical of Matrix own security in relation to this very website. This is hardly partisan behavior. Highlighting potential security/privacy/fraud risks should be encouraged. We put up with far too much bad practice in general on the internet and that is only to the advantage of those scumbags who wish to profit from such weaknesses.



All anyone has to do is check your post history to see for themselves what the tone of your posts are concerning Battlefront.




RichG -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/8/2019 6:46:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

All anyone has to do is check your post history to see for themselves what the tone of your posts are concerning Battlefront.


Indeed, but I will save them the bother...

quote:

Battlefront were saying that 18 months ago.


quote:

Hopefully this means they can set about fixing the bugs in the version 4 updates of the other CM2 games which have made them pretty much unplayable for the last two years. Although I won't hold my breath.


quote:

And wait two years or more to get a fix when they release broken paid for updates which ruin the game.


Now my "taking a dump at all things CM" is clear for all to see. Not that that has anything to do with this thread.





76mm -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/8/2019 7:47:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great
I agree, however I believe you are given the choice the first time you order (with new card) as with many vendors. The problem is that there is a box that has to be checked for this and the default is that the box is checked which means you would have to notice that and uncheck the box. Pain in the rear as sooner or later when placing an order you can easily forget to "uncheck" the box.

With Bluepoint, you can check the box or not, but it saves your CC info in any event. A few times, Bluepoint would not let me complete an order unless I checked the box to save the CC to their site. I have asked Matrix about this and they said something like "Bluepoint is aware of this issue but have not gotten around to fixing it yet."

It has been like this for a few years now, so at this point I'm not sure that they will ever get around to fixing it. Not sure why Bluepoint or Matrix would treat customers like this...




MOS96B2P -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/8/2019 9:14:30 PM)

[/quote]
With Bluepoint, you can check the box or not, but it saves your CC info in any event. A few times, Bluepoint would not let me complete an order unless I checked the box to save the CC to their site. I have asked Matrix about this and they said something like "Bluepoint is aware of this issue but have not gotten around to fixing it yet."

It has been like this for a few years now, so at this point I'm not sure that they will ever get around to fixing it. Not sure why Bluepoint or Matrix would treat customers like this...
[/quote]

WOW!!! I'll start to pay more attention when buying from Matrix. I didn't know this. I've not had any problems with credit card fraud when buying from Matrix but I wonder if others have?




Fleischer80 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/22/2019 2:10:38 PM)

I read that thread on the Battlefront forums a week ago, but stupidly decided to buy their latest WW2 game anyway. Just got a call from the card company now. Luckily, the attempt was unsuccessful as it was caught by their anti-fraud systems. I do need to get another debit card though, which is quite irritating.

I say stupidly, because Battlefront has a reputation of not acknowledging problems or issues with their games and company. And I knew that because I used to spend quite a bit of my time posting bug reports on their forum many years ago, and every time it was met with deaf ears. The typical reply was that the mistake was on my part and that nothing was wrong with their game. "You just don't know how to play it!". Not acknowledging problems seems to be the modus operandi on that forum today as well.

Battlefront-Steve has now shut down that thread and refuses to acknowledge that this is happening. This despite dozens of people coming in there and reporting credit card fraud, and in some cases with cards that have only been used on Battlefront's store. His argument is that credit card fraud happens all the time, and that people flooding his forum with stories of hacked cards is simply to be expected anyway. In other words, no amount of Battlefront customers with hacked cards is going to prove this guy wrong!

Stay away from them. Don't buy from Battlefront until they have fixed this leak. Like RichG says, their current game engine is very bugridden anyway, and hasn't been patched in years.




z1812 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/22/2019 3:01:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fleischer80

I read that thread on the Battlefront forums a week ago, but stupidly decided to buy their latest WW2 game anyway. Just got a call from the card company now. Luckily, the attempt was unsuccessful as it was caught by their anti-fraud systems. I do need to get another debit card though, which is quite irritating.

I say stupidly, because Battlefront has a reputation of not acknowledging problems or issues with their games and company. And I knew that because I used to spend quite a bit of my time posting bug reports on their forum many years ago, and every time it was met with deaf ears. The typical reply was that the mistake was on my part and that nothing was wrong with their game. "You just don't know how to play it!". Not acknowledging problems seems to be the modus operandi on that forum today as well.

Battlefront-Steve has now shut down that thread and refuses to acknowledge that this is happening. This despite dozens of people coming in there and reporting credit card fraud, and in some cases with cards that have only been used on Battlefront's store. His argument is that credit card fraud happens all the time, and that people flooding his forum with stories of hacked cards is simply to be expected anyway. In other words, no amount of Battlefront customers with hacked cards is going to prove this guy wrong!

Stay away from them. Don't buy from Battlefront until they have fixed this leak. Like RichG says, their current game engine is very bugridden anyway, and hasn't been patched in years.


Hmmm? You admit to being fully aware, of what many consider to be unfounded claims of problems with digital transactions at Battlefront.

You dislike their company and Forums. You consider their games to be buggy and yet you still wanted to buy one of their games. You seem to be correct about your admitted stupidity.




zakblood -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/22/2019 3:46:59 PM)

i don't like the knocking of companies from elsewhere, where they can't reply etc, for me the thread needs to go either back there or locked and not carried on, i have no issues with them tbh.




Fleischer80 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/22/2019 4:02:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

i don't like the knocking of companies from elsewhere, where they can't reply etc, for me the thread needs to go either back there or locked and not carried on, i have no issues with them tbh.


You have this backwards. It is I and all the other Battlefront customers with credit card frauds who can't say anything on THEIR forum, because they have shut down all talk on the topic. They can come here and defend themselves as much as they like, and they know this thread exists.




zakblood -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/22/2019 4:13:03 PM)

sorry but don't agree with the thread and post, unless someone from there replies, it's one sided, so only gets used to knock a given view point, not saying it's not happening and sorry either way, but has next to nothing to do with this forum, which is the point of my post.

information on errors is always good to share, so thanks for the thread starter, but soon afterwards everyone else then jumps on the bandwagon and knocks a given view point, knowing no one else will say it's right or wrong so gets left unsaid, for everyone who dislikes a given game or developer or publisher, there's always about the same amount with the opposite view, if only one side is mentioning something, best imo to just let it lie and it / they will sort it out, without anyone else coming and adding fuel to the fire, threads are closed on forums for reasons, no one has to like it or accept it, only admin and owners / staff make the call.

i personally think we as members here, shouldn't get involved, and only complain there, not here, if you have a grievance etc.

so will pass my thoughts on for staff to decide.




rico21 -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/22/2019 4:14:20 PM)

Funeral words.
battlefront, ok but battlefront elsewhere.
Amen.[sm=innocent0001.gif]




JosephM -> RE: Warning for all Battlefront Customers - Credit Card Fraud (2/22/2019 4:34:20 PM)

Hello All,

Sorry, but we are going to lock this. It is an important PSA, but the tone of the thread is turning nasty.

Credit Card fraud is a rising issue in the modern age, but there are many likely causes for this. If Battlefront operate as we do, and Steve Grammont has suggested they do, then they do not hold the card information at all so are not responsible for this. Then IF their payment provider has been compromised then yes this is important information to all who have purchased from there. However there are also dozens of other sites or reasons why this may have been affected. For all those who want further reading on how to try to prevent this you may find the below website useful, but I will lock this thread.
https://www.getsafeonline.org/protecting-your-computer/safe-internet-use/




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