Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (Full Version)

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TMP95 -> Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/1/2018 3:50:22 AM)

I'm setting up some simple missions with SAMS / Radars, etc -

How does it work. Is it best to have the parent (overall EMCON for that side) set to "passive" and then turn each Radar "active" individually (with the NO check mark on the UNIT OBEYS EMCON key
.) If all are set to passive in the parent EMCON status and also set to nothing within the "sensors" section of a SAM unit. Will the SAM unit turn on and off on its own?




PN79 -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/1/2018 12:14:21 PM)

The SAM's engagement radar will turn on even if it has EMCON "passive" to engage hostile target and then turn off once the engagement ends. So EMCON "passive" will not prevent engagement. Instead setting regarding allowing fire or not has effect on SAM's engagement radar.

The question if it is better to have "active" or "passive" EMCON for radars depends on scenario and expected threat. If the enemy doesn't have ARMs and you don't need to hide radars you can have them active. If it is more complex scenario with ARMs I am used to modify SAMs in that way that I separate surveillance radar from SAM unit itself so this can be on without endangering the SAM itself which would activate only during engagement.




AlphaSierra -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/1/2018 10:12:55 PM)

I sometimes use a platform as the "bait" and have it radiate. [8D]




SeaQueen -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/2/2018 12:04:32 AM)

I have a LUA script which randomizes the EMCON of all the SAM sites in a list. They then follow a preset blinking tactic (e.g. 10 of the last 20 minutes). It makes attacking and localizing emitters a little more difficult, thus making SAMs a little more survivable.




orca -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/2/2018 4:12:01 AM)

Can you share them LUA script? Is there a link to it or a scenario to find it in?




SeaQueen -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/3/2018 12:17:51 AM)

It's in the "LUA Legion" area. Just look for "Blinking SAMS"

There's also an example of it in the "Mods and Scenarios" area. Look for the topic, "Scenario for Testing: Defending 31st Tactical Air Base, Poland"




Whicker -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/3/2018 1:50:11 AM)

you could also add sams to a mission and control the emcon in the mission, then turn the mission on and off every x minutes. Not as cool as SQs idea but close (pretty sure this is possible, haven't quite tried it). I plan to play around and see about having the sams move while the mission is active (no radar) then when the mission is inactive the radars would be active and the sam not moving. Though ideally the main search radar would not be on at all unless there is no other active radar around to show what is going on. I don't know how realistic it would be to have the sam unit moving and then stop, but I'm just playing with that the game makes available.




SeaQueen -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/5/2018 6:30:30 PM)

The problem is that you don't want them all to turn on and off at the same time. That's why my LUA script iterates over a list of GUIDs and determines their EMCON state at random. It's also nice because you could theoretically easily have multiple sets of tactics going on simultaneously or change tactics just by taking your own GUID off one list and adding it to another.

There already exists a "shoot and scoot" SAMs example. I haven't integrated that into my own projects yet. The best possible script would integrate both "blinking" and "shoot and scoot" tactics. It might also have a "shutdown on launch" capability where it'd go EMCON off and relocate when it detected someone shot at it. If the Balkans wars are any indicator, Command tends to over-estimate the effectiveness of ARMs. The reason isn't that the software is bad, it's that without scripting the SAM sites are a little stupid. In order to make them more survivable, they really need clever scripting.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Whicker

you could also add sams to a mission and control the emcon in the mission, then turn the mission on and off every x minutes. Not as cool as SQs idea but close (pretty sure this is possible, haven't quite tried it). I plan to play around and see about having the sams move while the mission is active (no radar) then when the mission is inactive the radars would be active and the sam not moving. Though ideally the main search radar would not be on at all unless there is no other active radar around to show what is going on. I don't know how realistic it would be to have the sam unit moving and then stop, but I'm just playing with that the game makes available.





ExNusquam -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/7/2018 2:38:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

There already exists a "shoot and scoot" SAMs example. I haven't integrated that into my own projects yet.


If you're referring to my example...consider that "inspiration" and that's about it. There are far cleaner ways of doing it. I've made a couple of prototypes since but nothing really polished enough to share. Haven't had the time to work on the concepts lately (grad school).




SeaQueen -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/7/2018 6:30:51 PM)

quote:

If you're referring to my example...consider that "inspiration" and that's about it. There are far cleaner ways of doing it. I've made a couple of prototypes since but nothing really polished enough to share. Haven't had the time to work on the concepts lately (grad school).


Of course! My big take away from that example was that it was possible to use LUA to simulate more sophisticated SAM tactics and hopefully make them a little more survivable, because once you localize a SAM site, it probably won't last long. Regardless of how capable their missiles are, they only have so many of them, so the name of the game is to shoot that many plus 1 and you've got a guaranteed kill.




Filitch -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/8/2018 7:06:21 AM)

Year or more ago someone of our colleagues posted here a LUA script with mobile SAM tactic. After firing SAM moves to another operating site and waiting for next target. Unfortunately I can't find this post now. Turning radars in combination with SAM repositioning will a good model of real-life SAM tactic.




Tashtego -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/8/2018 12:23:27 PM)

It's in the War Room forum, at the top.




Filitch -> RE: Setting up SAMs / Radars (EMCON status) (11/9/2018 4:27:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tashtego

It's in the War Room forum, at the top.

Sure enough! Thanks for prompt




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