Problems with the engagement of my SU (Full Version)

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schascha -> Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 10:24:12 AM)

I have big problems with the engagement of my SU in the combats.

This one is the last exemple:

[image]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/690729tour93SU.jpg[/image]


How to explain this problem ???




carlkay58 -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 11:22:47 AM)

I seem to recall that there is a maximum of 3 SUs committed per hex in a normal combat. This can increase in urban terrain.




schascha -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 11:35:42 AM)

Thx for your reply but it's not a possible explanation because I do another combat before this one against the same hex and from tow hex:

[image]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/273304tour93SU2.jpg[/image]

With no corps, no SU attached, 22 SU engaged !!!! [X(]

I can't understand [&:]




pompack -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 1:56:54 PM)

There is a maximum number of SUs that can be committed by a single HQ per combat but I am too lazy to look it up right now.

However the really significant point is that the commitment of SUs requires die rolls based upon the attributes of the HQ leader controlling the SUs. There have been threads detailing investigations into which attributes but I can't find them anymore. All I remember is that the process is similar to but still different from reserve activation


Die rolls everywhere affect everything is the answer to most questions about this game[:D]




morvael -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 2:12:28 PM)

Yeah, but SUs attached to CUs should be commited automatically, and be processed with priority over randomly assigned SUs from HQ, which should come into combat only if there are "free slots" left, after counting all SUs from CUs.




morvael -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 2:17:04 PM)

15.4 in the manual clearly states that:
quote:

Support units that are directly attached to combat units will automatically be added to the battle.

and
quote:

Support units attached to headquarters units must pass a series of checks in order to be committed to a battle. (...) The maximum number of attached support units that can be commitment by headquarters units to a single battle is 6, with the exception where the defending combat units are in a light urban or heavy urban hex, where the maximum is 18.


There should be no limit on SUs attached to CUs and they all should take part in battle. Perhaps it's only display issue?




schascha -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 3:44:54 PM)

By contrast, the list of the SU engaged in my first combat is very impressive:

[image]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/331738tour93SU3.jpg[/image]





Balou -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 4:07:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack

There is a maximum number of SUs that can be committed by a single HQ per combat but I am too lazy to look it up right now.

However the really significant point is that the commitment of SUs requires die rolls based upon the attributes of the HQ leader controlling the SUs. There have been threads detailing investigations into which attributes but I can't find them anymore. All I remember is that the process is similar to but still different from reserve activation


Die rolls everywhere affect everything is the answer to most questions about this game[:D]


AFAIK it's leader initiative rating. What I don't remember is whether distance of the parent HHQ matters.




pompack -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 6:04:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

15.4 in the manual clearly states that:
quote:

Support units that are directly attached to combat units will automatically be added to the battle.

and
quote:

Support units attached to headquarters units must pass a series of checks in order to be committed to a battle. (...) The maximum number of attached support units that can be commitment by headquarters units to a single battle is 6, with the exception where the defending combat units are in a light urban or heavy urban hex, where the maximum is 18.


There should be no limit on SUs attached to CUs and they all should take part in battle. Perhaps it's only display issue?


Didn't know that direct attachment didn't need checks; learn something every day. Thanks morvael




gingerbread -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 6:17:11 PM)

Possibly V1.04.28 #3 is the cause.




schascha -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/4/2013 6:41:50 PM)

this one:

quote:

New Rule- Added a fire penalty in combat when there is a large number of attacking units. The force value of the attacking side is calculated using the following values for each non-support, non-artillery division unit attacking:
Corps 15
Division 9
Brigade 5 (unless the brigade has less than 2000 men in which case it is 3)
Regiment 3
Once the force value exceeds 28 there is a chance that elements will not get to fire during combat. Artillery elements are much less effected (only impacted at closer ranges in combat), and the chance that elements will not fire increases as the force value increases. In general though, adding more units should result in more elements firing, but a lower percentage of the total elements will generally be firing as the force increases. The CV values of the attacking units are not changed by this rule.


It's not stupid but it's about firing not involved




schascha -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/5/2013 6:57:18 PM)

Without a clear answer I decide to continue my turn and other battles to do some test.

The first thing I decide : not to engage my art division in my combats but do 1 or 2 bombardement with them before the ground engagement. I had the impression that my problems begins when I started to use them.

After 4 battles I came to the conclusion that everything works perfectly up to 6 Corps are involved in the combat but if the number of Corps increases, the number of SU (even directly attached on units) engaged declines.
I have the feeling that the size of the units is also important.

It's just my first conclusions and I will keep an eye on my future combat reports.

Sorry for my poor english [&o]




Pelton -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/5/2013 7:37:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: schascha

Without a clear answer I decide to continue my turn and other battles to do some test.

The first thing I decide : not to engage my art division in my combats but do 1 or 2 bombardement with them before the ground engagement. I had the impression that my problems begins when I started to use them.

After 4 battles I came to the conclusion that everything works perfectly up to 6 Corps are involved in the combat but if the number of Corps increases, the number of SU (even directly attached on units) engaged declines.
I have the feeling that the size of the units is also important.

It's just my first conclusions and I will keep an eye on my future combat reports.

Sorry for my poor english [&o]



That's a nerf that was put into game a long while back.

If you have X divisons or Corp in a single battle elements involved in battle will decline.
The more units the less elements commit to the battle.

Not going to bother to find it some other nerd can.




morvael -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/5/2013 7:45:47 PM)

All SUs attached to CUs should be included automatically, without limits. I wonder if perhaps you have reached hard limit of units involved in one battle. Your problem starts as you reach 28-30 units, both on and off map.




schascha -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/5/2013 8:15:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton


quote:

ORIGINAL: schascha

Without a clear answer I decide to continue my turn and other battles to do some test.

The first thing I decide : not to engage my art division in my combats but do 1 or 2 bombardement with them before the ground engagement. I had the impression that my problems begins when I started to use them.

After 4 battles I came to the conclusion that everything works perfectly up to 6 Corps are involved in the combat but if the number of Corps increases, the number of SU (even directly attached on units) engaged declines.
I have the feeling that the size of the units is also important.

It's just my first conclusions and I will keep an eye on my future combat reports.

Sorry for my poor english [&o]



That's a nerf that was put into game a long while back.

If you have X divisons or Corp in a single battle elements involved in battle will decline.
The more units the less elements commit to the battle.

Not going to bother to find it some other nerd can.



I'm sure you read this thread before without sharing your opinion, knoweldge.

And now when I have find the start of an answer, you told me it was evident and only a nerd...

It's a very curious attitude.







schascha -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/5/2013 8:24:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

All SUs attached to CUs should be included automatically, without limits. I wonder if perhaps you have reached hard limit of units involved in one battle. Your problem starts as you reach 28-30 units, both on and off map.

I didn't check this number, its a good idea thx




morvael -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/5/2013 8:44:09 PM)

By the way, why do you need such overkill? What is that you have to defeat, that you need 2000+ CV? In my battles I usually attack with 2 corps + div + reserves, sometimes with a Tank Army (3 corps) or two armies at most (4/5 corps + div), 1200 CV at most. Thanks to raw elements number advantage you should win on 1:1 to 1.5:1 80% of the time (depends how many reserves kick in).




PastrySquirrel -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/5/2013 11:54:16 PM)

Morale farming? The proper execution of which would be a welcome thread of its own...




Pelton -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/6/2013 12:25:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PastrySquirrel

Morale farming? The proper execution of which would be a welcome thread of its own...


Done a few already, let him post one then I can trash it and post how its done.






schascha -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/6/2013 8:00:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

By the way, why do you need such overkill? What is that you have to defeat, that you need 2000+ CV? In my battles I usually attack with 2 corps + div + reserves, sometimes with a Tank Army (3 corps) or two armies at most (4/5 corps + div), 1200 CV at most. Thanks to raw elements number advantage you should win on 1:1 to 1.5:1 80% of the time (depends how many reserves kick in).


My opponent stopped attack at the end of turn 15, spent the new year 42 in poland and for one year the front is stabilized like this:

[image]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/347152tour56SITU.jpg[/image]

We are in march 43, I had some troubles with my trucks during the last winter and the mobility of my units don't allow to do too much attacks. I have in front of me CV between 1000 and 20000 with a good reserve activation.

This is the combat in question for this thread:

[image]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/713335tourcombat.jpg[/image]


My AAR in french:
http://www.leqg.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=13114




Jagdfluger -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/19/2013 4:56:56 PM)

Good questions - thanks for the posts.




rrbill -> RE: Problems with the engagement of my SU (7/20/2013 12:08:14 PM)

Psheesh... what will you do?

(Feel you are playing at an extreme situation that the game might not handle that well. Looks like WWI Western Front.)




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