Panthers are pretty much indestructible..... (Full Version)

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STIENER -> Panthers are pretty much indestructible..... (6/25/2013 10:06:10 PM)

any one else notice that the panthers rule the battle field with ease? my opponent is not having much fun trying to get a few kills shots on the panthers.

i have had the odd panther detroyed by the 3 inch a/t gun. even had 1 or 2 killed from a side shot, i think , from a 57 mm a/t gun but in a head to head dual with the panther against the sherman or M10 its a hands down win 99% of the time.

seems a bit unrealistic to me. yes, the panthers were tough and very good battle tank, but not that tough. the allies had better a/t ammo and history tells us that the allies were able to knock out the cats in tank duals.

any one got any stories / tips of how they manage to take out the panthers in PITF?

PipFromSlitherine -> RE: Panthers are pretty much indestructible..... (6/25/2013 10:17:55 PM)

From my understanding the frontal armour of a Panther was pretty close to impervious in the situations you are describing. Flanking or rear shots are your best bet, certainly with anything other than a 17pdr or the late-war 90mm guns (again, from what I have gleaned from others talking about it...).

I am sure others will comment more knowledgeably [:)]



STIENER -> RE: Panthers are pretty much indestructible..... (6/25/2013 10:35:58 PM)

hi Pip.......well thats true, as you say the frontal armour was pretty much impervious on the cats but at close ranges as were fighing in, in CC the allied sherman 75 gun with good AP ammo was able to do some damage.
any ways just putting it out there....

Steve McClaire -> RE: Panthers are pretty much indestructible..... (6/26/2013 7:12:30 PM)

75mm Shermans and M10s did knock out Tigers and Panthers, but going head to head in a frontal duel wasn't the way. Typically Allied tanks and TDs would bait German tanks into exposing their flanks to other friendly AT weapons. Or they threated a frontal engagement while other friendly tanks went around to flank the Germans.

There are a lot of books out there that cover this situation and how the US Army tried to deal with it. There's a good bit in Max Hasting's 'Overlord' where he describes how British tank crews were advised to shoot for the bottom of the Panther's gun mantlet, so the shot would ricochet down into the hull top armor, and how difficult this was to pull off. Belton Coopers "Death Traps" also touches on the subject, though not as much as the book's title might suggest.


STIENER -> RE: Panthers are pretty much indestructible..... (6/26/2013 8:23:24 PM)

thanks for the reply steve.......ive read the max hasting book a few times. i remember that account about shooting for the bottom of the gun mantle.....can you imagine being given that advice by a senior officer in those circumstances...LOL. i also rememeber a bit in his book about the near mutiny of a british tank div because of the huge tank losses they were consistantly taking and the fact that the allies were able to wash the blood out of some shermans and repair them and put them back into the field with new crews. nasty.

i have read an account from a german panther crew in the bulge taking 27 frontal hits [ it was a crazy number ] from a 57 mm a/t gun and taking no damage. they had to finally reverse out of the field they were in because they could not locate where the a/t gun was!!

ive also read accounts in mark zuehlke's books on canadian in normandy of canadian 6 pdrs taking out panthers in, from what i can gather in some cases frontal shots , but i would assume also with APDS rds.

so i guess im doing all the right things in PITF with my panthers. :) getting some good discussion any ways.


Steve McClaire -> RE: Panthers are pretty much indestructible..... (6/26/2013 10:37:08 PM)

Yes, I think Hastings (or the people he was quoting) employed a bit of British understatement in that section. :)

The 6pdr and the 57mm were basically identical, I think, so I would suspect the Canadians were indeed using APDS if they killed Panthers from the front. Note that 'from the front' could mean the panthers turret was turned to the side, and their side-turret armor is vulnerable.

There is a chance for a non-penetrating hit to do some damage in CC. You can get an immobilization or knock out a weapon (even the main gun) if you get lucky. But it's much more likely that a Panther will kill you before that happens.


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