RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (Full Version)

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HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 5:52:59 PM)

TURN 14 ... TURN 14 ... TURN 14

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sillyflower -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 6:05:30 PM)

It's good to see this remains a family-friendly AAR after all, with both of us posting pictures of our wives




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 6:15:20 PM)

I hope to remain above reproach. I was completely against this mission from the start. My reputation remains beyond repute.




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 7:48:11 PM)

TURN 14 .... TURN 14 ... TURN 14 ... TURN 14

Now for the turn. I apoplogize for these unpleasantries. Things happen in war; some good; most bad, Leningrad is toast. Do I wait to kill the Russian scum till winter ??? The Volkov's west bank has almost been cleared,[image][/image]

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Troops are sent to AGC... Moscow will ...




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 7:50:47 PM)

Moscow will fall. My push to take the city will suceed. THe Russians are breaking down and the front is ready to collapse !!!

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HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 7:52:37 PM)

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50 miles from the outskirts of Moscow The advance is irresisitable.




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 7:56:23 PM)

The Donbass will fall. I will completely encircle Stalono and the Soviet hords there.

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HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 7:57:01 PM)

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HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 7:58:45 PM)

Even the Crimea is toast. The Russian command is falling apart. Maybe OPERATION SILLYFLOWER TERMINATION did suceed.[image][/image]

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HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 7:59:51 PM)

And the numbers... 100,000 plus Russian casualties this turn

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gingerbread -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 8:56:10 PM)

You are bringing the rest of 3rd Pz Gr down to participate in your Moscow offensive, right? And the entire 4th Pz Gr as well?




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 9:21:12 PM)

They ain't going on any vacation, my friend. I had 10 Pz up at AGN to do damage. As I said before, Leningrad would not have fallen (IMO) if the 6 AGN div + 4 AGC div hadn't participated. Definitely I would have made more progress in AGC, but it was to my benefit to first take Leningrd.

Imagine the German dilemma without the Finns helping AGN.

Would you wait to clean out Leningrad (permanent loss of 6 div) ???

I did not show the Pz div's location, BTW, to let THEPROS find them.

I don't want to make my job harder or their's easier.

They have been great competitors and I feel fortunate to play them.




Michael T -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 10:06:44 PM)

Kill them now and move on.




Baelfiin -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 10:21:24 PM)

Kill the Leningrad crap, hows the supply situation way out there on the Don?




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 10:24:50 PM)



This was my most diificult turn to date because of 1) the challenges in each AG center (and the crimea) and 2) getting ready for the three weather changes.

My biggest frustration when I was a NEWBIE (not to say I still play like one, occassionally) was I would learn isolated facts, but not have a feel for an organized approach (using the facts.)

vandev has an active War Room discussion on his present blizzard experience, but I want to share some thoughts on planning for it.

All the top players constantly stress that the Germans have to retreat before the Russian onslaught during blizzard . And very few NEWBIES take their advice and prepare for it. I start now (turns 13-14) visualizing where I'll be at the end of winter. Pelton likes to plan a retreat 1 hex a turn in front of Moscow, and 2 hexes a turn south of Tula. So using that as a standard I plan where that might be 10-14 turns down the road.

So I plan what infantry units, under what Army/Corp HQ's, will be holding a sector of the front. I plan 1 unit a hex south of Tula and 2 per hex north up to Lake Lagoda. Now's the time to organize. When the confusion of mud and snow hits as the German attack continues (which it must), that is one less problem to face. Corp's need to be a max out as well as armies. The other HQ's go to weather safe havens. Pelton likes 4-8 of the best infantry units out of the weather to perserve their morale. Against the best Russiand I don;t think it's possible.

I then organize the studs. Not the Pz's (that discussion is coming up) but the Mountain units. They are the studs for the Axis during blizzard. I hold them in reserve and send them either piece meal to the main Russian advances or en masse to break isolation pockets. They total 9 units ..6 German regiments (each of the 2 div with 3 SU's) and 3 Romanians.

Next the Pz. You have roughly 7 Pz/Mech Corp. I put 4 close to divided sectors of the front and 3 in weather safe haven; but close to the front in case of breakthrus.

I reduce all TOES on turn 12-14 to 75%, except for the Pz's and studs. This reduces the horrible impact of blizzard attrition by reducing the troops so exposed.

I then send all SU's to army group HQ (in safe haven) for their protection during blizzard. Their absence affects the infantry/Pz CV little.

I send all planes to reserve and airfields/HQ's to safe havens except 4 units filled with fighters sent to operate in a sector.

As the snow turns pass by, I fan the units out to the density I desire in each sector.

And the Finns hold up north.

Then I pray.




Baelfiin -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 10:32:30 PM)

Does sending the air force back really matter one way or the other? I think you really need to commit to having the elite infantry out of the bad weather zone. It makes a huge difference having 86+ morale infantry being able to launch deliberate attacks into the Russian second line of forts (see nylons pic)




Michael T -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 10:44:02 PM)

I don't think you can make hard and fast rules for what you need to do in the blizzard. You should play each game on its own merits. Your blizzard plan should be flexible. Only give up what you have to. If you have done enough hurtin in the summer you should be able to stand firm in some places. I hate these cookie cutter strategies. Adopt what is needed and adapt to the present situation.




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 10:51:16 PM)

Baelfin, your'e one of the top players, and your opinions are based on more experience. But in regards to the airfields (HQ's fliegercorp), fewer troops exposed to the blizzard means less attrition. Now for the airbases ??? I don't know (they have no troop strength printed on their counter) but I still do it (not by rail.) It's a major pain to do though.

Now the elite infantry. Your spot on, but I think against a team like THEPROS I'll need a safety net for major breakthrus. They will be in safe havens, but close to the front.

By the way, is morale lost during each turn of blizzard (weather zone Pelton :) no matter what or is it determined partially by HQ factors ??? If so which ones ???




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 11:19:04 PM)

MT, goodness gracious, you are so skilled and instinctive that you can say that. Most new/ intermediate skill players, MT, get their head taken off during blizzard against the best players. To me if you have a plan, whether good or bad, you can make some sort of judgement post mortum ( hopefully not in the literal sense.) I'm very unexperienced in blizzard. I'd rather have a big buffer zone/ large safety net rather than getting 20 divisions isolated.




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 11:26:40 PM)

I could do HQBUP at Karkov, Kursk and just west of Stalino. I'm at the limit (25 hexes) north of Stalino. It's fine




Michael T -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 11:34:00 PM)

If you have 2 ID in lvl 2 forts in woods or better they will find it v tough to dislodge you. Throw in a Panzer in Res mode and even harder. Remember that.




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/10/2013 11:49:37 PM)

That's already in the planning stage !!!




Baelfiin -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/11/2013 12:01:33 AM)

I wouldn't characterize myself as a top player =p

But speaking from first hand experience of getting my head handed to me by david and sean in blizzard ops, they are going to bring the rain all across the front. They killed 15 some odd of my divisions pretty easily, and it would have been more if I wasn't running for Poland as fast as my frozen little feet would carry me [:D]

I think you can get away with dropping the TOE on the air bases, and using everything that can fly to bring in supplies every turn. You have less chance of losing morale if your supplies are above 70 percent-ish.




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/11/2013 12:02:23 AM)

Look at vandev last comment on his War Room "axis view of blizzard." His two biggest mistakes would have possibly been averted by some of my earlier thoughts.... 1) organizing the mountain units and 2) visualizing fallback lines.

MT is a WITE Alexander the Great. You can learn from him , but none-the-less , can't do what he does.




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/11/2013 12:05:33 AM)

You mean when mud hits, turn 18 ??? Didn't think of it. I thought units only loss morale when supplies were less than 20 % ???




Michael T -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/11/2013 12:22:17 AM)

Please Hitman, quit putting me on a pedastal. I just have 35 years of experience behind me. Most of it wargaming WWII in the East. Thats all.




HITMAN202 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/11/2013 1:22:57 AM)

I say no more. Did you play SSI WITE much ??? Came out, I think in 1974-5. Was a bigger fan of Drang Noch Osten.

Another perspective of what you said above : People will comment that I am a good physician. I'll say I've been a doctor for 36 years. What I really mean is that far I'm better than even you can imagine. Sorry for my bluntness.





carlkay58 -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/11/2013 2:51:03 AM)

I think MT has more experience in DNO and Europa than most on these forums. If I recall correctly, he was a major Europa player for many years.




Pelton -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/11/2013 2:55:14 AM)

With the nerf or the armor MP's SHC blizzard will not be so over the top, but still hard to stop.

2 infantry even with activation will not stop and attack, because of the 1v1=2v1. The better blizzard guys can punch a hole in any line then the cav run through. They pinch of a few divisions a turn and get the snowball effect going which turns Dec into January and january into February as GHC CV tanks because little to no replasements get to the front because they go to the surrendered returning units.

If you can survive the first 2 turns no matter the skill of the SHC your going to get off easy. Its all about the first 2 turns of Blizzard.

With the morale bug I reported(last spring) finally being found and going to be fixed, if you survive blizzard you look to be in good shape. Stay on offensive until October 42 and you still have a shot at a draw




Michael T -> RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed. (4/11/2013 3:37:13 AM)

Be easier for me to say what East Front games I haven't played. Anyway enough please [:)]




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