Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (Full Version)

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alanschu -> Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/7/2013 10:25:33 PM)

What sort of performance do they still have in the face of CAP (or in strikes with dive/level bombers).

I rarely use them on any sort of "strike" mission because I am worried that if I set them as bombers or to strafe, they won't be any sort of effective contribution in defending against an enemy CAP. I understand they certainly would not be able to be as effective carrying bombs, but I am curious if people have had success using some of the aircraft in a strike role and how effective they are at not being outright shredded.


Some concerns I also have is that I am afraid to send out a strafing run on local shipping simply because it'll mean any component I reserve for CAP will be flying CAP at super low altitudes.


Thoughts?




crsutton -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 5:04:01 AM)

Even though FB and fighters will drop their load and fight back, they are at a distinct disadvantage if bounced by fighters. I would recommend that you escort them. Basically, I do not use any plane to attack at low level unless I know that it is a unit without decent AA assets. Japanese tanks for instance. But any base with decent AA or a big stack of infantry will just shoot any low level attackers to bits and it is not worth the loss. I did some testing and found that strafing is not really effective in low level attacks, it is actually the bomb that does the damage. Further testing showed me that you lose very little by bombing at medium altititude vs low level.

I am playing scen 2 and just don't have the chance to use fighters as bombers much. Just too many Jap fighters about. But once again. Any low level use and they tend to just get shot up by AA. It is a pity because Allied late war fighters carry massive bomb loads. I have used them from 7k as level bombers and those that carry twin 1,000 pound bombs can be effective but lesser bombs droped by fighters at that alt just don't do it.

Now that I am getting the upper hand at sea I am training my fighters up to about 50 low nav bombing skill. A corsair carries a bigger bomb load than a helldiver, so why not.




alanschu -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 6:10:28 AM)

Fair enough. I would definitely expect a distinct disadvantage just by being on a bombing run (worst case, I drop my bombs and then try to dogfight, but on some level I'm going to have lost the initiative). I would definitely only use it when fighter coverage doesn't exist. I just remember having some reasonable success with strafing runs on some of the cargo ships in vanilla like 7 years ago (haha) and was thinking on doing it again.

And yeah, part of me was wanting to leverage the Corsairs and whatnot for their 1000lb bomb loads.

Quick follow up: Do the Fighter and Fighter bombers glide bomb if set at the correct altitude?




Chris H -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 8:24:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Even though FB and fighters will drop their load and fight back, they are at a distinct disadvantage if bounced by fighters. I would recommend that you escort them. Basically, I do not use any plane to attack at low level unless I know that it is a unit without decent AA assets. Japanese tanks for instance. But any base with decent AA or a big stack of infantry will just shoot any low level attackers to bits and it is not worth the loss. I did some testing and found that strafing is not really effective in low level attacks, it is actually the bomb that does the damage. Further testing showed me that you lose very little by bombing at medium altititude vs low level.

I am playing scen 2 and just don't have the chance to use fighters as bombers much. Just too many Jap fighters about. But once again. Any low level use and they tend to just get shot up by AA. It is a pity because Allied late war fighters carry massive bomb loads. I have used them from 7k as level bombers and those that carry twin 1,000 pound bombs can be effective but lesser bombs droped by fighters at that alt just don't do it.

Now that I am getting the upper hand at sea I am training my fighters up to about 50 low nav bombing skill. A corsair carries a bigger bomb load than a helldiver, so why not.


One problem is that fighters set to sweep will often drop down and strafe and they is no way to prevent this.




castor troy -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 8:35:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Even though FB and fighters will drop their load and fight back, they are at a distinct disadvantage if bounced by fighters. I would recommend that you escort them. Basically, I do not use any plane to attack at low level unless I know that it is a unit without decent AA assets. Japanese tanks for instance. But any base with decent AA or a big stack of infantry will just shoot any low level attackers to bits and it is not worth the loss. I did some testing and found that strafing is not really effective in low level attacks, it is actually the bomb that does the damage. Further testing showed me that you lose very little by bombing at medium altititude vs low level.

I am playing scen 2 and just don't have the chance to use fighters as bombers much. Just too many Jap fighters about. But once again. Any low level use and they tend to just get shot up by AA. It is a pity because Allied late war fighters carry massive bomb loads. I have used them from 7k as level bombers and those that carry twin 1,000 pound bombs can be effective but lesser bombs droped by fighters at that alt just don't do it.

Now that I am getting the upper hand at sea I am training my fighters up to about 50 low nav bombing skill. A corsair carries a bigger bomb load than a helldiver, so why not.


One problem is that fighters set to sweep will often drop down and strafe and they is no way to prevent this.




Funnily enough, I have never had this happen even once in AE since release. You sure you don't have your settings wrong? My fighters sweep and sweep and sweep and CAP or no CAP, they never drop down to strafe the airfield.




Cannonfodder -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 8:40:01 AM)

quote:


Chris H
One problem is that fighters set to sweep will often drop down and strafe and they is no way to prevent this.


Castor Troy
Funnily enough, I have never had this happen even once in AE since release. You sure you don't have your settings wrong? My fighters sweep and sweep and sweep and CAP or no CAP, they never drop down to strafe the airfield.


Aren't you talking about GG Eagle day to bombing the Reich? It happens in that game, never seen it happen in AE.




castor troy -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 8:44:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

quote:


Chris H
One problem is that fighters set to sweep will often drop down and strafe and they is no way to prevent this.


Castor Troy
Funnily enough, I have never had this happen even once in AE since release. You sure you don't have your settings wrong? My fighters sweep and sweep and sweep and CAP or no CAP, they never drop down to strafe the airfield.


Aren't you talking about GG Eagle day to bombing the Reich? It happens in that game, never seen it happen in AE.



IIRC you can set your sweep to 100ft and the fighters strafe or that was the way back in WITP. I never used it in WITP, never even tried it in AE as strafing isn't a good idea anyway and like I've said, in all the thousands of turns so far I have never had my fighters strafe an airfield when they were on sweep so not sure what is going on.




JocMeister -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 8:47:55 AM)

As CT I have never had the fighters drop down to strafe nor has my opponents to my knowledge.




Cannonfodder -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 8:49:23 AM)

Ah, yes if you set sweeps to 100ft the fighters will strafe. But they don't "drop down" as they come in low and egress low.

Tried it at the start of my game vs Arnhem but did not like it (limited effect, high risk) and have never used it again.





crsutton -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 5:43:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Even though FB and fighters will drop their load and fight back, they are at a distinct disadvantage if bounced by fighters. I would recommend that you escort them. Basically, I do not use any plane to attack at low level unless I know that it is a unit without decent AA assets. Japanese tanks for instance. But any base with decent AA or a big stack of infantry will just shoot any low level attackers to bits and it is not worth the loss. I did some testing and found that strafing is not really effective in low level attacks, it is actually the bomb that does the damage. Further testing showed me that you lose very little by bombing at medium altititude vs low level.

I am playing scen 2 and just don't have the chance to use fighters as bombers much. Just too many Jap fighters about. But once again. Any low level use and they tend to just get shot up by AA. It is a pity because Allied late war fighters carry massive bomb loads. I have used them from 7k as level bombers and those that carry twin 1,000 pound bombs can be effective but lesser bombs droped by fighters at that alt just don't do it.

Now that I am getting the upper hand at sea I am training my fighters up to about 50 low nav bombing skill. A corsair carries a bigger bomb load than a helldiver, so why not.


One problem is that fighters set to sweep will often drop down and strafe and they is no way to prevent this.




Funnily enough, I have never had this happen even once in AE since release. You sure you don't have your settings wrong? My fighters sweep and sweep and sweep and CAP or no CAP, they never drop down to strafe the airfield.



I have not seen it either. Are you sure that your sweeping fighters are not set to a secondary mission such as ground or air attacks? This might cause it.




crsutton -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 5:44:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Ah, yes if you set sweeps to 100ft the fighters will strafe. But they don't "drop down" as they come in low and egress low.

Tried it at the start of my game vs Arnhem but did not like it (limited effect, high risk) and have never used it again.




I should mention that fighters set to bomb at 1,000 feet will always drop to 100 feet as well. Above that setting and they level bomb.




geofflambert -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 9:37:49 PM)

The fighter-bomber concept was pretty poorly executed up through WWII. The Mosquito was a very fine light to medium bomber and a good bomber interceptor, but not much good at being a fighter. I've heard that AH told Speer to make the Me-262 a fighter-bomber, which was a really stupid thing to do. The P47, I think, was the first real glimpse of the future of fighters, being both outstanding at ground attack and fighter roles. Nowadays everything is a "fighter-bomber".




Q-Ball -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/8/2013 10:07:11 PM)

Just curious: What kind of success has anyone had flying Corsairs on LowN attacks?




geofflambert -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/9/2013 1:25:51 AM)

We could expand that to 'what kind of success has anyone had flying anything on LowN attacks?' Including Wirraways of course.




Lokasenna -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/9/2013 5:20:56 AM)

I've had P-39s and P-40s on LowN work over xAKs, xAKLs, DDs, and even CLs pretty well. A few of the DDs even sank!




bigred -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/9/2013 5:21:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Even though FB and fighters will drop their load and fight back, they are at a distinct disadvantage if bounced by fighters. I would recommend that you escort them. Basically, I do not use any plane to attack at low level unless I know that it is a unit without decent AA assets. Japanese tanks for instance. But any base with decent AA or a big stack of infantry will just shoot any low level attackers to bits and it is not worth the loss. I did some testing and found that strafing is not really effective in low level attacks, it is actually the bomb that does the damage. Further testing showed me that you lose very little by bombing at medium altititude vs low level.

I am playing scen 2 and just don't have the chance to use fighters as bombers much. Just too many Jap fighters about. But once again. Any low level use and they tend to just get shot up by AA. It is a pity because Allied late war fighters carry massive bomb loads. I have used them from 7k as level bombers and those that carry twin 1,000 pound bombs can be effective but lesser bombs droped by fighters at that alt just don't do it.

Now that I am getting the upper hand at sea I am training my fighters up to about 50 low nav bombing skill. A corsair carries a bigger bomb load than a helldiver, so why not.

quote:

I have used them from 7k as level bombers and those that carry twin 1,000 pound bombs can be effective but lesser bombs droped by fighters at that alt just don't do it.

Hi all, CRSutton, what if u train your fighters to lowground then use them at 5000ft for ground support?




jmalter -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/9/2013 6:21:58 AM)

hmm,
don't planes flying at LowN/LowG altitude carry their reduced-load ordnance, unless they're attack-bombers?




Sardaukar -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/9/2013 8:07:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

hmm,
don't planes flying at LowN/LowG altitude carry their reduced-load ordnance, unless they're attack-bombers?


Yes.

(Apart from not being 100% sure about Fighter-Bombers)




sanch -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/9/2013 8:21:48 AM)

So I got bunches of P-39's with their nice 20-mm cannons, and one group in particular that's been training hard on 100' ground attack (there's this group of Japanese tanks all by themselves in the Burmese woods).

This thread says this is a waste of energy. I could/should use the P-39 groups for training escort/sweep pilots, and forget about making tank-killers out of this group.

Bummer!




alanschu -> RE: Fighter Bombers (and fighters as bombers) (2/9/2013 10:34:28 AM)

quote:

hmm,
don't planes flying at LowN/LowG altitude carry their reduced-load ordnance, unless they're attack-bombers?


Would that do much more than affect accuracy? (Assuming bomb size doesn't change)

It can have the advantage of skip bombing though, couldn't it?




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