Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (Full Version)

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gwgardner -> Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/7/2013 4:27:58 PM)

The contention has been made that the game is unplayable and the Gotterdamerung scenario in particular is grossly unbalanced. I'm going to test out both those contentions. I already know that the first - game unplayable - is not true.

This AAR is played with beta 1.04, and the hotfix for air unit supply for rebase.




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/7/2013 4:45:39 PM)

On the Italian front at the start of the scenario, Allied forces are split between the Anzio beachhead and the main force facing strong German fortifications. Any immediate push on Rome, which is possible, would be very risky, because the mulberry at Anzio is vulnerable to any assault by the Germans.

The British force two breaches in the fortifications through combined assaults and repeated followup attacks against the weakest German positions. The Germans are going to have to fall back or be completely destroyed piecemeal.


[image]local://upfiles/20372/07FA0EAB43DA4313A0ABE55A424ACB9D.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/7/2013 4:47:52 PM)

The US is tasked with linking with the Anzio beachhead. Bombing from bases in Sardinia followed by repeated assaults against the strong German corps occupying the key point in the line, forces the position. And now the move on Rome can take place.



[image]local://upfiles/20372/3250288B14234765B35ECB4D39653558.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/7/2013 4:52:05 PM)

Northern France is vulnerable to amphibious assault. There's just too much coastline to defend and the Allies have air superiority everywhere.

I'm going to try a pretty much historical DDay, using 2 British and 3 US divisions, against Normandy beaches. The US will need to purchase two more amphibious transport fleets.

It's April now, with DDay scheduled to take place in June. For now, continuous air bombardments against German coastal positions and strat bombing of production centers will be carried out.

[image]local://upfiles/20372/9832AE78BF614B9788A4DDE5E0BDC77D.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/7/2013 5:34:36 PM)

On the Eastern Front at the start of the scenario, the common complaint among players is that the Germans are overpowered and the Soviets have to fall back to survive. Perhaps that is so, but as a player I'm going to look at it historically, and try to build upon that for the scenario:

1) The Soviets had just 'completed' major offensives into Romania and around Leningrad. By April '44, the start of the scenario, the Soviets were in preparation stages for offensives in BeloRussia, the Crimea, and around Lake Ladoga. They were in consolidation/reorg phase for their just completed offensives.

2)So as a player, I'm going to position forces for the BeloRussian offensive, and reorganize my front in the south, where the Germans seem to be rather strong. In short, historically and in this scenario, it's a time for the Soviets to go on a brief defensive stance, while preparing for another major push.

3) Historically, the Belorussian offensive kicked off in June '44. So I have some time to reorganize.

The Soviet steamroller on the Eastern Front did not move forward continuously. There were many months of preparation and stasis.

[image]local://upfiles/20372/8F4C447EB7A04C6EB065BE6270D0A3CF.jpg[/image]




JLPOWELL -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/7/2013 7:26:34 PM)

Re Italy:
This pretty much mirrored my experience vrs the AI. I would add that vrs a human Axis player moving in Italy would be MUCH more difficult (if possible at all) , particularly as the GE move first and could reinforce and re position more effectively. This does mirror the historical result which was that Italy was a slow hard fight.




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/7/2013 8:36:18 PM)

Indeed, the scenario becomes much different against a human opponent.

2nd turn

Fleets are leaving port to position for DDay and escort duty. Continuous bombardment of the French coastal positions and the Ruhr. The Germans are losing around 30 PPs a week due to strat bombing now.

UK: continued reinforcement of air assets for DDay and night bombing; positioning of light carriers into the med to provide air strike capability in the Adriatic. Land-based air to remain in the UK for invasion of the continent.

US: staged embarkation of troops from the US to support the amphibious assault troops that are already in the UK; Daylight bombing continuing. Amphibious transports sufficient for a 3 division assault in place. The US will be using mechanized and tank divisions, the UK infantry.

USSR: reorg and repositioning continuing; air assets rebased to take away the German advantage in the Romanian bulge.

The following maps show that the Allies have air superiority almost everywhere along all fronts. Only near Finland and southern Romania are the Axis capable of putting up an air fight.


[image]local://upfiles/20372/2E1C8C78E4AD46A988BDA5D87616BCF5.jpg[/image]




Agent S -> OT: eyecandies (2/8/2013 2:19:53 AM)

apologies about the eyecandies, you've got bits of denmark all over italy, and word fragments everywhere else.
It was only ever intended for the big campaigns.
also mulligan supply graphic counter sits below centre.
Will tweak if it's considered annoying.




gwgardner -> RE: OT: eyecandies (2/8/2013 3:47:57 AM)

Should I be using another map? I'm a dunce on these things. None of it bothers me at this point, however.




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/8/2013 7:09:26 PM)

turn 4, early May

I have been surprised by the AI in Italy. It has actually made a couple of good moves: 1st, it pulled back from the British breakthroughs and formed a new line, and 2nd when the British moved up to occupy the new front, and the US forces looked outflank the new positions, the AI has pulled back again and recon shows that it is bringing in substantial forces for a new line.



[image]local://upfiles/20372/ACB7AD46CC024EDEBFA9C3CE37D2FDF7.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/8/2013 10:49:32 PM)

Turn 5

How shall I say this ... help!! Gross underestimation of the AI response in Italy has left the US forces there in a serious predicament. With nothing in the pipeline yet, headed for the Med, the British are going to have to stretch their lines and come to the rescue.

We surrounded the German armored corps that had advanced too far, but it struck back in vicious assault of a US motorized corps guarding the SW flank of the encirclement - result, destruction of the US corps. A further counterattack down the West Coast of Italy caught another US mechanized corps without support. Now it is reeling back towards Rome hoping to escape destruction.

[image]local://upfiles/20372/43B80FA17BC24C20843327DD1F56AA5D.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/9/2013 2:49:00 AM)

On the eastern front a major offensive has been launched to smash the Minsk bulge, and then to drive on to the Baltic.

[image]local://upfiles/20372/C991DF2E0CDC4C97BC5F2F1A0553A591.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/9/2013 7:07:52 PM)

Late May '44

The AI handling of Italy continues to be a very pleasant surprise. It not only contends at the front, but it has prepared fall-back positions among fortifications. I was totally wrong in thinking that Italy would be mine even before DDay.

The UK navy continues to direct air strikes at armored units on this front, hoping to wear them down steadily and allow another breach of the front.



[image]local://upfiles/20372/58D504AA13D349349CD929D4CED96ECD.jpg[/image]




Mark Clark -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/9/2013 7:48:56 PM)

I notice the two US divs are already dead.  [:)]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/10/2013 8:58:39 PM)

June 1

The Western Allies are poised for DDAy, with troops embarked, airborne forces prepared to board their gliders and transports, combined navies bombarding and combined air forces making continuous strikes all along the coast and inland at identified panzer reserves.

On the Italian front, a pause has been ordered to regroup and reinforce.

On the Eastern Front the Minsk and Courland Offensives are moving along as planned. Once the frontline German troops were shattered, the way is now open to the Baltic and to an encirclement of German concentrations around Minsk - especially Luftwaffe bases.

In the South, Soviet forces continue to make tactical withdrawals where necessary. It is expected that such backtracking will stop as soon as the Germans realize they must pull out forces from the south to stop the Red Army in the north - and to meet the invasion in France.



[image]local://upfiles/20372/E4AAE42451124FE58D2EE112DE38175D.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/10/2013 8:59:41 PM)

The only major success by the Germans in the south is the retaking of Odessa.


[image]local://upfiles/20372/31A440D8506A4904AE959AFCD319D00F.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/10/2013 10:01:37 PM)

June 9

DDay was a huge success. Shore bombardment and aerial strikes softened up the coastal defenses, and all five allied divisions landed as planned. Caen was the crucial first objective, and that was taken by British forces handily. Airborne forces for both nations dropped in positions to block German reinforcements to the landing areas.

Two US armored corps have already been brought onshore at Caen, and will be at full strength within a week.

Next objectives: bring as many forces onshore at Caen as the port can handle, and grab more ports!

[image]local://upfiles/20372/DFF9E8297A554FBE90B21DB914240DF3.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/11/2013 10:27:18 PM)

Late June '44

The Western Allies are extending their position in France, with the US attempting to drive west to take Brest. The UK forces are bracing for a German counterattack. Recon shows a steady buildup of German armor to the south and east.

With only one port in hand at present, the Allies are limited to bringing in 5 units a week. As such, airborne troops are still being utilized to guard flanks, and that is a very dangerous risk.



[image]local://upfiles/20372/ADC20ACFAA0C4FD780D6EB3058B1D12D.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/11/2013 10:30:03 PM)

The Minsk Offensive is proceeding according to plan, with Soviet troops just 30 miles outside the city now. The Courland Offensive is ahead of schedule, with German forces completely cut off there. Meanwhile, the Germans are slow to let go of their own southern offensive in Romania, and to reinforce their VERY weak front in the north.

[image]local://upfiles/20372/977AAD57AB8A468CA932881D681CAD7C.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/12/2013 5:03:41 PM)

July 1 '44

The AI is doing a fine job in France too. It's taken three weeks, but it has now gotten a frontline established, has counter-attacked against the weak spots in the Allied line (taking out another airborne division), and has limited the Allies to one port.

The Allies know that they can no longer hold the northern flank with those airborne troops. The British have to get more units onto the continent. Three per turn is very limiting, but there's nothing for that right now, until the US can take Brest.

The AI has also repeatedly sent subs into the Channel, where there are lots of Allied targets. About half of the Allied carrier force has been forced to port either due to sub attacks or maintenance needs.

[image]local://upfiles/20372/17A3646F259F42FEB4FA80028775E158.jpg[/image]




gwgardner -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/13/2013 1:55:04 AM)

I'm going to play this out, but that completes the mini-AAR. I accomplished my goal of showing that 1) the game and scenario are imminently playable; 2) the Axis AI is not so awfully overpowered as to make the scenario impossible to play for the Allies; 3) division sized units are not useless.

A surprising - very pleasingly surprising - result of this runthrough was how good the AI is. I feel like I'm up against a human opponent, with the exception of the AI response against my offensive on the northern part of the Eastern Front.




Agent S -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/13/2013 2:48:19 AM)

Another good AAR GW.
Fully agree with your conclusions.
ToF really is a great game.
It would be good as an addenda, at what turn number you achieve victory.




JLPOWELL -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/13/2013 3:42:33 AM)

I do agree this is a very good game, but of course with a few flaws. For example you can't actually 'achieve victory' as currently designed. Game doesn't end with surrender of Germany and Germany won't surrender if you still control some silly place like Narvik (like Gibraltar and Malta hold the key to UK). I played this scenario with pretty similar results to GW and 'declared victory' in November of 1944. It was going to be nearly impossible to clear the many strong corps the AI placed in Norway, but with all non Norwegian victory hexes taken I called it 'over'.

Perhaps the surrender conditions should kick in if all original victory hexes of a nation are lost.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Agent S

Another good AAR GW.
Fully agree with your conclusions.
ToF really is a great game.
It would be good as an addenda, at what turn number you achieve victory.




Grimnirsson -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/13/2013 1:53:49 PM)

Thanks Gary, very interesting indeed...




Razz -> RE: Gotterdamerung Allies vs AI mini AAR (2/14/2013 4:27:54 AM)

umm.. interesting.

Perhaps someone needs to show you how to take Norway. Never played GD for more than 3 turns.

Anyhow, I will have to check but I may be able to program the VP to change in Norway upon certain conditions.

After all Germany controlled Norway throughout the war.

The other alternative is to make them a little weaker in Norway which is easy.




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