RE: Women In the Infantry (Full Version)

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warspite1 -> RE: Women In the Infantry (2/14/2013 7:04:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Can I suggest that we bring this thread to a halt now?

The case for and against has been made and strongly argued by both sides, but the danger now is that - with nothing really new to add - the thread runs the risk of descending into more heated comments with all that that means.



And thus warspite1 joined the ranks of histories great predictors of the future. [;)]

[image]http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/1-nostradamus.jpg[/image]
Warspite's uncle Nostradamus
warspite1

It's a gift...if only I could do the same with the Lottery nos? [:(]




t001001001 -> RE: Women In the Infantry (2/15/2013 12:14:25 AM)

I use bbs like a shrink's couch. During the day u bite ur tongue and try not to whine too much, b/c it lowers morale and bores everyone to death anyway. It's still nice to kick back sometimes and scream. Get's out the bad blood.

SLAAKMAN, I bought you a ticket for the next Carnival cruise. Once the food runs out the pretty ladies aboard will do anything. Tell im u got a banana and retire to ur cabin. ur all set, brah. You're welcome.




parusski -> RE: Women In the Infantry (2/15/2013 12:46:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: t001001001

I use bbs like a shrink's couch. During the day u bite ur tongue and try not to whine too much, b/c it lowers morale and bores everyone to death anyway. It's still nice to kick back sometimes and scream. Get's out the bad blood.

SLAAKMAN, I bought you a ticket for the next Carnival cruise. Once the food runs out the pretty ladies aboard will do anything. Tell im u got a banana and retire to ur cabin. ur all set, brah. You're welcome.


WTF are u smoking??[;)][:D][sm=scared0018.gif]




parusski -> RE: Women In the Infantry (2/15/2013 9:38:20 PM)

Ahhh, for those who screeched at me that "women will never be drafted", here comes the beginning:

Democrat calls for women to be drafted! CLICK HERE!

You progressive are alwaaaaays right about your social experiements, just keep telling everyone that "no, women will not be drafted" and "no one 'really' wants to stop gun ownership". Just keep repeating those mantra's, after you drink the kool-aid.

You wonder why people like me scream bloody murder at women in combat or gun control, but these things are done in baby steps.
[:-][:-]




SLAAKMAN -> RE: Women In the Infantry (2/15/2013 10:55:01 PM)

THE MAN-OF-CLUCK,
quote:

I use bbs like a shrink's couch. During the day u bite ur tongue and try not to whine too much, b/c it lowers morale and bores everyone to death anyway. It's still nice to kick back sometimes and scream. Get's out the bad blood.

SLAAKMAN, I bought you a ticket for the next Carnival cruise. Once the food runs out the pretty ladies aboard will do anything. Tell im u got a banana and retire to ur cabin. ur all set, brah. You're welcome.

SO WHO DO YOU CHOOSE MISTACHICKEN? IS MELISSA STILL YOUR BETROTHED IN THE HERE-AFTER? U KNOW CELIBACY ONLY LEADS TO MORE NEST POLLUTION & BEAK ABSOLUTION;

PIRATES SEEK AMAZON BOOTY
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3240722
[image]http://44aml.itocd.net/www/images/girl/1169601-1169800/79398b18-9a07-4f07-afac-62d69adb5e4f.jpg[/image]




parusski -> RE: Women In the Infantry (2/16/2013 2:35:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

THE MAN-OF-CLUCK,
quote:

I use bbs like a shrink's couch. During the day u bite ur tongue and try not to whine too much, b/c it lowers morale and bores everyone to death anyway. It's still nice to kick back sometimes and scream. Get's out the bad blood.

SLAAKMAN, I bought you a ticket for the next Carnival cruise. Once the food runs out the pretty ladies aboard will do anything. Tell im u got a banana and retire to ur cabin. ur all set, brah. You're welcome.

SO WHO DO YOU CHOOSE MISTACHICKEN? IS MELISSA STILL YOUR BETROTHED IN THE HERE-AFTER? U KNOW CELIBACY ONLY LEADS TO MORE NEST POLLUTION & BEAK ABSOLUTION;

PIRATES SEEK AMAZON BOOTY
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3240722
[image]http://44aml.itocd.net/www/images/girl/1169601-1169800/79398b18-9a07-4f07-afac-62d69adb5e4f.jpg[/image]


How do I know? I am just...bwahhhaahahahahah.




berto -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/2/2013 11:48:54 AM)


The Truth About Women in Combat

[emphasis added]

quote:

Conservatives often stand accused these days of standing outside the "reality-based community." Yet liberals can be blinded by ideology, and nowhere is this more true than in the debate over women in combat.

Over the past two decades, the United States has moved steadily to open all military roles to women. Last month, departing Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta removed the last barriers. Women may henceforward qualify for every duty, including combat infantry. The few - very few - public objections raised to this decision were met with derision rather than argument, well represented by this sneering item from the Daily Show. [link omitted here]

Yet to deny the highly combat-relevant differences between the sexes is to deny reality as blatantly as ever done by any anti-evolutionist - and with potentially much more lethal consequence.

In 2007, Kingsley Browne gathered the evidence in a clear and concise book, Co-ed Combat: The New Evidence That Women Shouldn't Fight the Nation's Wars. The case presented by Browne won't come as news to any military decision-maker. But it will and should jolt those who have relied on too credulous media sources for their information about what soldiers do and how they do it.

...

The military executes missions, and the generals and admirals understand that one of their most important missions - from the point of view of their personal advancement - is to recruit sufficient numbers of women to please their political masters. The only way to achieve that mission is to operate very unequal standards.

...

Sex integration has tangled the military in double standards and collective denial. The Army, Browne reports, maintains an unofficial policy whereby women - but not men - showers in the field every 72 hours. This practice is not written down, but it's observed by the troops as another example of a demoralizing military culture of denial and lying. Browne quotes interviews of enlisted men by military sociologist Laura Miller:

quote:

"Today all you hear in the Army is that we are equal, but men do all the hard and heavy work whether it's combat or not."

"The majority of females I know are not soldiers. They are employed. Anything strenuous is avoided with a passion. I would hate to serve with them during combat! I would end up doing my job and 2/3 of theirs just to stay alive."

(LOC 3644)

More cutting still, Browne repeats a bitter military joke that true equality will arrive - not when women receive Medals of Honor (since it will be suspected that the standards were bent in their favor) - but when women "can be subject to a court-martial for cowardly conduct."

...

4) It is on the point of "fairness" that Browne expresses himself most scathingly. It's not the military's job to be "fair." It is the military's job to win wars. Our society values freedom of speech. It values the right to elect leaders. It values individual choice and market competition. All of those values are suspended in the military, sacrificed to the paramount need for military effectiveness. Yet on gender issues, the military seems to have decided that the desire of a relatively very small number of female officers to reach the highest levels of command trumps the necessities of national defense.

...

Too many draw an analogy between sex distinctions and the military's discredited history of racial discrimination. Browne urges us to think of sex as a distinction more like age.

quote:

[W]hat would happen if the United States had fifteen thousand sixty-year-old men in Iraq and Afghanistan instead of fifteen thousand women. If it did, many of these older men would undoubtedly behave bravely. Would these stories be persuasive evidence that the military should allow sixty-year-olds to enlist? Not at all. The relevant question is whether the sixty-year-old men are as effective in combat as twenty-year-old mean, and few would be (or be expected to be).

(LOC 3943)

Co-ed Combat depicts a country that seems to have made up its collective mind that it need not worry about ever again fighting a major war against a capable enemy - A country so confident in its margin of superiority that it can afford deliberately to weaken its own military performance for reasons of pure ideology. And this time it is the so-called progressive side that treats facts as unwelcome intruders.

quote:

Sara Lister, [the Clinton-era] Assistant Secretary of the Army for Manpower and Reserve Affairs, candidly stated that the Army does not publicly discuss strength and pregnancy issues because "those subjects quickly become fodder for conservatives seeking to limit women's role in the Army."

(LOC 3831)

Well, yeah. But if your preferred policy can only be advanced by concealing relevant facts, isn't that a blaring warning of a bad policy? A big, rich country like the United States can afford many mistakes. But in this case, the mistakes will exact a cost in lives sacrificed and - very conceivably - future battles lost.




Matti Kuokkanen -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/2/2013 4:49:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

What kind of a man is it who can send women off to kill and maim? What kind of society does that?

What kind of society sends ANYONE to kill and maim?

And how many women (not in military) have been victims of it?




warspite1 -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/2/2013 5:03:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

What kind of a man is it who can send women off to kill and maim? What kind of society does that?

What kind of society sends ANYONE to kill and maim?

warspite1

Well sometimes it's necessary for a civilised society to do just that - sometimes it's the only way of stopping evil in its tracks - but doesn't mean we have to put women in the frontline.




Capt. Harlock -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/2/2013 7:14:16 PM)

quote:

What kind of society sends ANYONE to kill and maim?


A society that believes its values are worth preserving.

"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

“I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.”
-- John Adams




Sarge -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/2/2013 11:54:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

What kind of society sends ANYONE to kill and maim?




Never mind Matti's hobby is wargamming …………… [sm=00000280.gif]





PS/Edit:more proof the hobby has been infiltrated by peace loving hippies ………..[;)]







SLAAKMAN -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/3/2013 12:22:34 AM)

[:'(]

[image]local://upfiles/7190/56A601221A784F0485B096FCA63D4D01.jpg[/image]




SLAAKMAN -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/3/2013 1:08:52 AM)

[X(]

[image]local://upfiles/7190/E20A6E3438734B61B3C1F5A3436C9233.jpg[/image]




parusski -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/4/2013 12:37:49 AM)

No problem some told me. Women could play in the NFL just as easily as serve int the military. I sure as hell hope NOT:

UPDATE: First Female NFL Tryout Last Just 2 Kicks...

"Silberman pulled up lame after her first kick, which traveled only 16 yards and barely crossed midfield at the New York Jets' indoor training facility."




flashburn -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/4/2013 1:44:42 AM)

Women in combat........news flash that happens no matter what what in a conflict with women in the ranks. In air craft.....fine. On navy ships.....ok. Even on some combat vehicles (roll depending). In the freaken infantry'? NO. In SOME combat arms ya ok. In others LIKE infantry.....you have got to be kidding. That will not go well AT ALL... Who has been to comabt and thinks this is a GOOD idea? ZERO problem with woman in military rolls.......even certain combat jobs. But come on now......




Titanwarrior89 -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/4/2013 1:49:23 AM)

Interesting article.
quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

Well, according to the Washington Post:

"To graduate from boot camp, soldiers must perform 35 pushups and 47 situps and run two miles in at least 16 minutes and 36 seconds — but that’s only for male soldiers.
Female troops are required to do 13 pushups and 43 situps and run two miles in 19 minutes and 42 seconds."


And:

"In the 1990s, the British army, under political pressure to put women in traditional male jobs, adopted a “gender-free” policy with identical fitness requirements for both sexes and abandoned its “gender fair” system of separate standards.
A decade later, Dr. Ian Gemmel conducted a study for the British army’s personnel center. He found that the number of women who could qualify for basic training decreased in the “gender-free” system, as more women dropped out of training because of injury, compared with the “gender fair” system of separate fitness requirements.
This study confirms and quantifies the excess risk for women when they undertake the same arduous training as male recruits,” Dr. Gemmel reported."



Why is there a difference? I think it is self explanatory.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/30/army-may-train-women-for-rigor-of-front-lines/?page=all








parusski -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/4/2013 2:55:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

Interesting article.
quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

Well, according to the Washington Post:

"To graduate from boot camp, soldiers must perform 35 pushups and 47 situps and run two miles in at least 16 minutes and 36 seconds — but that’s only for male soldiers.
Female troops are required to do 13 pushups and 43 situps and run two miles in 19 minutes and 42 seconds."


And:

"In the 1990s, the British army, under political pressure to put women in traditional male jobs, adopted a “gender-free” policy with identical fitness requirements for both sexes and abandoned its “gender fair” system of separate standards.
A decade later, Dr. Ian Gemmel conducted a study for the British army’s personnel center. He found that the number of women who could qualify for basic training decreased in the “gender-free” system, as more women dropped out of training because of injury, compared with the “gender fair” system of separate fitness requirements.
This study confirms and quantifies the excess risk for women when they undertake the same arduous training as male recruits,” Dr. Gemmel reported."



Why is there a difference? I think it is self explanatory.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/30/army-may-train-women-for-rigor-of-front-lines/?page=all







Don't confuse progressives with FACTS.




Matti Kuokkanen -> RE: Women In the Infantry (3/5/2013 4:55:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

What kind of society sends ANYONE to kill and maim?




Never mind Matti's hobby is wargamming …………… [sm=00000280.gif]





PS/Edit:more proof the hobby has been infiltrated by peace loving hippies ………..[;)]

[image]http://www.hoopee.fi/c/1405-medium/valtiot.jpg[/image]
[sm=00000924.gif]

We're peacekeepers, not peacemakers




Jim D Burns -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/8/2015 4:44:44 AM)

My nephew sent me this image and it reminded me of this old thread. Looks like the standards are already starting to drop to allow women to pass training in the infantry. Note the two backpacks of the women being carried by men in the unit.

[image]local://upfiles/5815/FB1DDAA4893546C5ACE24EBFAA6D9007.jpg[/image]

Jim





76mm -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/8/2015 6:32:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
Note the two backpacks of the women being carried by men in the unit.

[X(] [:(] [&:]




Lecivius -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/8/2015 2:54:10 PM)

Without getting into this, "the fact that the military is not meeting recruitment goals" is not correct in the U.S. Recruiters are actually being picky about who they let in. Signs of the global economy, or whatever.

Carry on.




Zap -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/8/2015 4:42:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

My nephew sent me this image and it reminded me of this old thread. Looks like the standards are already starting to drop to allow women to pass training in the infantry. Note the two backpacks of the women being carried by men in the unit.

[image]local://upfiles/5815/FB1DDAA4893546C5ACE24EBFAA6D9007.jpg[/image]

Jim





The picture without the story behind it leaves it open for interpretation. Here's my take. Remember, (those who are older) when walking to school a girl you liked was walking with her lunch box. You offered to carry it for her. That's what is happing here, two young male soldiers infatuated with the 2 female soldiers offered to carry their(instead of lunch boxes) backpacks[sm=00001746.gif]




Jim D Burns -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/8/2015 4:57:16 PM)

The length of their strides tells me this is a training hump and they're moving at a very brisk pace. All I can say is if a man failed to carry his own pack during training, he'd be cashiered from the program and sent to a physical fitness platoon to get into shape before being allowed back into training. If he failed to get into shape he'd be discharged from service.

Imagine these women carrying these packs in combat along with their rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammo. Now imagine they're humping up a mountain in Afghanistan under fire, simply put they won't make it and will force the unit to stop. People are going to die because of this PC agenda trying to force feed women into combat roles.

Jim




Ostwindflak -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/8/2015 5:15:27 PM)

Why would the unit leader allow this to happen in the first place?




Lecivius -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/8/2015 7:23:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ostwindflak

Why would the unit leader allow this to happen in the first place?


Zero choice in the matter.




Zap -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/8/2015 10:16:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

The length of their strides tells me this is a training hump and they're moving at a very brisk pace. All I can say is if a man failed to carry his own pack during training, he'd be cashiered from the program and sent to a physical fitness platoon to get into shape before being allowed back into training. If he failed to get into shape he'd be discharged from service.

Imagine these women carrying these packs in combat along with their rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammo. Now imagine they're humping up a mountain in Afghanistan under fire, simply put they won't make it and will force the unit to stop. People are going to die because of this PC agenda trying to force feed women into combat roles.

Jim



I agree with all your points of concern. I was just joking in my previous post.




parusski -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/8/2015 11:34:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

The length of their strides tells me this is a training hump and they're moving at a very brisk pace. All I can say is if a man failed to carry his own pack during training, he'd be cashiered from the program and sent to a physical fitness platoon to get into shape before being allowed back into training. If he failed to get into shape he'd be discharged from service.

Imagine these women carrying these packs in combat along with their rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammo. Now imagine they're humping up a mountain in Afghanistan under fire, simply put they won't make it and will force the unit to stop. People are going to die because of this PC agenda trying to force feed women into combat roles.

Jim



I agree with all your points of concern. I was just joking in my previous post.


My wife is 27(I just turned 49), and very athletic. Previously she was all for females being in combat roles. UNTIL several incidents occurred. Like not being able to open a freaking jar of honey. Like not being able to put a 50 pound carry on bag in a plane compartment. Like cursing herself for packing nearly 70 pounds of items in a hiking back pack during a 10 mile hike in the mountains of Wyoming, which I ended up putting about half her stuff on my back, bringing my total to nearly 100 pounds.

There are also the "wrestling" matches we engage in, which she ALWAYS loses. She finally admitted that the superior body strength men have is very important. But I do not want a flame war here. Rhonda, I love you kid.

Oh, and for a while 22 months ago I was going through a divorce(yep, she left me after 27 years) and she married a 35 year old(my ex is 49). I I upped her one and married a 25 year old(who just turned 27).[:D]





rhondabrwn -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/9/2015 8:42:26 AM)

Guys, there are women out there who can hold their own... no one is saying that every woman can be a combat soldier, but we deserve the chance.

And a small woman who happens to be a very skilled sniper might be worth giving her a lighter load to carry. Combat is about a lot more than humping the biggest rucksack in the platoon LOL

Women can also be stealthier for a recon unit...

Give it a chance.

And love you too guys [sm=00001746.gif]




zakblood -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/9/2015 9:24:57 AM)

i've never been in the forces, but when i was younger i joined the army cadet force here in the UK, because of my size for my age i was given the largest weapon for our size unit a LMG, now we had no ladies in the unit then but do so now, but if we did in my day they would have been sized the same as me, depending on build and fitness is what you got to carry, i was big for my age so got a support weapon with extra ammo, while others smaller than me got a standard layout of equipment, the women now would be the same, as not all men are equal either, i was the area boxing champion, running and rugby star, also the international swimmer, im my time over the years i have come up against ladies who could not only out run me, out swim me, distance wise that is, and out train me 2 or 3 times, so have no fear of most women being suitable for force life and thank all men and women for doing a role i'm not doing, in the end it's a job, and anyone can do it, i have a family member who was a member of the special forces SAS and later in life trained them, and his views are the same as mine, there is next to no difference in general once you group a certain level or standard of young men and women together, which neither being the best in everything, strength isn't everything in modern combat forces now days, like it used to be, where brains are now just as important if not more so with the hardware and tech that's available, anyone who says differently are just sexiest tbh, but saying all of this and ending up writing a novel again, i wouldn't want my sister or any woman i know in harms way or captured either, so understand peoples fears and worries and concerns, but in a free modern world we have to give everyone the same choices, then live with it, as the same was said of coloured units / soldiers and many many others not so that long ago and again with history that was also proven to be very wrong.

edited typo and spelling as always, and are my views and not anyone else's / staff etc, plain and simple, bit like me tbh[:D][;)]




Ostwindflak -> RE: Women In the Infantry (12/9/2015 11:58:26 AM)

My wife and I train 4-6 times a week doing weight lifting and crossfit. We run Spartan Races, 5k's, and hike mountains. My wife is one of the fittest people I know. I can push and pull more weight than her, but she can run circles around me when it comes to cardio and endurance exercises.

Now, she is also strong too. The other day she hit her personal best on a back squat with a barbell for a total of 273lbs. She can bench press 175lbs. There is no doubt in my mind she could perform just as good if not better than some of the men that go out for the military. My point is there are probably millions of women like that across the globe. I wouldn't exclude women from combat roles just based on the perceived "strength" argument. I say give them a chance and let's see what they can do.





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