Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game.

Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (Full Version)

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Miller -> Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 12:27:38 AM)
The sneaky penguin unleashed his first atomic bomb on the mainland, gamedate is 24/7/45......the result: Air attack on Nagasaki/Sasebo , at 102,58 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 76 NM, estimated altitude 37,600 feet. Estimated time to target is 23 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-84a Frank x 23 Allied aircraft B-29B Superfort x 1 No Japanese losses No Allied losses ATOMIC BOMB hits 1 [&:] No damage whatsoever, not even a single point of industry lost. Is this a glitch or bug of somekind? Or did the bad weather combined with CAP spoil the aim (by 100 miles or so)[&:]

Kwik E Mart -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 12:42:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miller The sneaky penguin unleashed his first atomic bomb on the mainland, gamedate is 24/7/45......the result: Air attack on Nagasaki/Sasebo , at 102,58 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 76 NM, estimated altitude 37,600 feet. Estimated time to target is 23 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-84a Frank x 23 Allied aircraft B-29B Superfort x 1 No Japanese losses No Allied losses ATOMIC BOMB hits 1 [&:] No damage whatsoever, not even a single point of industry lost. Is this a glitch or bug of somekind? Or did the bad weather combined with CAP spoil the aim (by 100 miles or so)[&:] Pilot: Wow...didn't they tell us there would be a blinding flash and a huge mushroom cloud? Co-Pilot: Yeah...weird. Maybe it's some new fangled nuc'lar bomb they didn't want to brief us on. Pilot: Wait just a cotton pickin' minute...pilot to bombadier. Bombadier: Erm, yeah skipper? Pilot: You DID remember to arm that thing before release, right? Bombadier: You're breaking (garble, garble). Didn't copy (garble, garble) last.

JeffK -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 1:58:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kwik E Mart quote: ORIGINAL: Miller The sneaky penguin unleashed his first atomic bomb on the mainland, gamedate is 24/7/45......the result: Air attack on Nagasaki/Sasebo , at 102,58 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 76 NM, estimated altitude 37,600 feet. Estimated time to target is 23 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-84a Frank x 23 Allied aircraft B-29B Superfort x 1 No Japanese losses No Allied losses ATOMIC BOMB hits 1 [&:] No damage whatsoever, not even a single point of industry lost. Is this a glitch or bug of somekind? Or did the bad weather combined with CAP spoil the aim (by 100 miles or so)[&:] Pilot: Wow...didn't they tell us there would be a blinding flash and a huge mushroom cloud? Co-Pilot: Yeah...weird. Maybe it's some new fangled nuc'lar bomb they didn't want to brief us on. Pilot: Wait just a cotton pickin' minute...pilot to bombadier. Bombadier: Erm, yeah skipper? Pilot: You DID remember to arm that thing before release, right? Bombadier: You're breaking (garble, garble). Didn't copy (garble, garble) last. Pilot to Navigator: Set a course for Vladivostok!!

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 2:05:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miller The sneaky penguin unleashed his first atomic bomb on the mainland, gamedate is 24/7/45......the result: Air attack on Nagasaki/Sasebo , at 102,58 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 76 NM, estimated altitude 37,600 feet. Estimated time to target is 23 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-84a Frank x 23 Allied aircraft B-29B Superfort x 1 No Japanese losses No Allied losses ATOMIC BOMB hits 1 [&:] No damage whatsoever, not even a single point of industry lost. Is this a glitch or bug of somekind? Or did the bad weather combined with CAP spoil the aim (by 100 miles or so)[&:] Have you reconned? I seem to recall that you don't get told results from A-bombs. You have to go look. But it's been over a year since I used one.

Treetop64 -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 2:53:23 AM)
You missed. [:D] The weather, and the aircraft's release altitude, may have been a factor.

bradfordkay -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 3:06:13 AM)
Ummm.... it sounds like Miller was the recipient of an atomic bomb attack by Faber so he should know the results without recon, shouldn't he?

scout1 -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 3:10:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miller The sneaky penguin unleashed his first atomic bomb on the mainland, gamedate is 24/7/45......the result: Air attack on Nagasaki/Sasebo , at 102,58 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 76 NM, estimated altitude 37,600 feet. Estimated time to target is 23 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-84a Frank x 23 Allied aircraft B-29B Superfort x 1 No Japanese losses No Allied losses ATOMIC BOMB hits 1 [&:] No damage whatsoever, not even a single point of industry lost. Is this a glitch or bug of somekind? Or did the bad weather combined with CAP spoil the aim (by 100 miles or so)[&:] I'm guessing the GAO is really going to be pissed .......

Chickenboy -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 3:56:28 AM)
You know, I'll really laugh my JFB arse off if it moves the victory scale down one too. Get him to try it two more times and see what happens. [:)]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 4:28:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay Ummm.... it sounds like Miller was the recipient of an atomic bomb attack by Faber so he should know the results without recon, shouldn't he? Re-reading it looks like you're right. I didn't realize who the penguin was. There are several around here. [:)]

erstad -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 4:30:52 AM)
Having been hit by numerous A-bomb hits, I don't believe I've ever seen details of the damage in the report. However, if you go to the base, you'll see damage. If you use Tracker, you'll also see a large shift in victory points. I think I've typically lost around 10K points per A-bomb, although a few times it's been less.

jcjordan -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 4:58:15 AM)
Don't expect too much in damage. I've dropped 4 & all results have been anemic as far as damage as well as the vp cost outweighed the gains. Yes there's negative vp costs associated w/ using them that will balance out any gains from damage caused. I've seen the vp costs descibed as being the political costs in using them similar to if the war goes past 8/45. IMO, I'd say the game is better off w/o it as the damage caused in a raid doesn't match what it historically did not to mention the vp costs outweigh the vp gains.

bradfordkay -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 6:28:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay Ummm.... it sounds like Miller was the recipient of an atomic bomb attack by Faber so he should know the results without recon, shouldn't he? Re-reading it looks like you're right. I didn't realize who the penguin was. There are several around here. [:)] True... I suppose that it could be another penguin. On this forum whenever I hear of somebody being called "penguin" I think of Fabertong, just as whenever I hear of somebody being called "banana boy" I think of Luskan... Speaking of old hands... where's Saueracker, anyway?

Miller -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 10:56:34 AM)
Yes it Fabertong I'm playing. Just done the next turn and definately no effect whatsoever on industry with regards to damage. However I have noticed he seems to have gained almost 4000 strategic points.

Chickenboy -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 1:01:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay Speaking of old hands... where's Saueracker, anyway? Ron responded to my Opponent's wanted thread for a CG PBEM a few months ago. He indicated that he was back in Canadia and looking to re-engage. Haven't seen him post elsewhere since his reply however.

Chris H -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 1:30:24 PM)
I've always wondered why using one should result in a victory point loss.

LoBaron -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 3:14:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miller The sneaky penguin unleashed his first atomic bomb on the mainland, gamedate is 24/7/45......the result: Air attack on Nagasaki/Sasebo , at 102,58 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 76 NM, estimated altitude 37,600 feet. Estimated time to target is 23 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-84a Frank x 23 Allied aircraft B-29B Superfort x 1 No Japanese losses No Allied losses ATOMIC BOMB hits 1 [&:] No damage whatsoever, not even a single point of industry lost. Is this a glitch or bug of somekind? Or did the bad weather combined with CAP spoil the aim (by 100 miles or so)[&:] Obviousely weather, DL, altitude, and enemy CAP. Did you not learn anything?? [sm=00000030.gif] Just kidding. AFAIK atomic bombs are not modelled correctly. In general they are underpowered even if the dice rolls favor you. Also, even if I made a joke about it, an atomic bomb attack is governed by the same attributes as any other weapon ingame. This obviousely could mean that it underlies similar criteria for effect. If DL is low, altitude is high, weather is bad, and crew fatigue high due to A2A, this is bound to minimize the effects of an atomic bomb attack. Not realistic, but this is how I think the game treats it. I wonder if Michael could do somehting about it, but I guess this is pretty difficult. An option would be to max out all potentially impacting values for this single mission type, so the game treats a bombing run as if DL was @ max, weather clear, and alt some default value, even if the true values diverge.

Puhis -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 3:16:16 PM)
Maybe the bomb was dud?

LoBaron -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 3:18:25 PM)
Is there a dud rate for A-bombs in the editor?

nashvillen -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 3:52:06 PM)
Device 213 in the editor. Dud rate = 0 Effect is 32000. Should have done something...

Chickenboy -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 4:02:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoBaron Not realistic, but this is how I think the game treats it. I wonder if Michael could do somehting about it, but I guess this is pretty difficult. An option would be to max out all potentially impacting values for this single mission type, so the game treats a bombing run as if DL was @ max, weather clear, and alt some default value, even if the true values diverge. While I agree that the impact / damage wrought by the A-bomb should be catastrophic to those units in a given hex, I disagree about maximum DL, assumption of clear weather, etc. These factors-missing the aim point by several kilometers-mitigated the effects of the plutonium bomb on Nagasaki. The Nagasaki bomb should have been even more damaging than Hiroshima (higher nominal yield, effects of hills to channel blast more effectively, different bomb type). Its efficacy was lessened due to these targetting and overcast cloud issues. Chief among them-missing the drop zone substantially. As the saying goes, 'close' only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades (and A-bombs). But there's still something to be said for optimal targetting and its effects. I've always wondered how the end of the war would have been different had Indianapolis been sunk with the 'gadgets' onboard en route to the war zone. I've also wondered how the war would have been different had Enola Gay or Bock's Car suffered a mechanical failure and had to ditch or faced fighter resistance near the target. Would we have waited another few months to get another couple bombs? Would the Soviet intervention still have prompted the Japanese surrender? With the availability of Okinawa as a major base, would we have nuked Tokyo or Osaka instead?

Cribtop -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 5:28:38 PM)
I'd like to see them cause a special morale check for Imperial General HQ, with modifiers on the check for pre-drop VP ratio and for Soviet activation (if yes, the check is harder to make). Fail the check and the game ends. Probably not possible, but absent something like this or WAY more destruction, I don't see why the Allies drop one other than the novelty factor.

Chickenboy -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 5:30:34 PM)
That's an interesting idea, Criptop. Me likee.

crsutton -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 5:39:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy quote: ORIGINAL: LoBaron Not realistic, but this is how I think the game treats it. I wonder if Michael could do somehting about it, but I guess this is pretty difficult. An option would be to max out all potentially impacting values for this single mission type, so the game treats a bombing run as if DL was @ max, weather clear, and alt some default value, even if the true values diverge. While I agree that the impact / damage wrought by the A-bomb should be catastrophic to those units in a given hex, I disagree about maximum DL, assumption of clear weather, etc. These factors-missing the aim point by several kilometers-mitigated the effects of the plutonium bomb on Nagasaki. The Nagasaki bomb should have been even more damaging than Hiroshima (higher nominal yield, effects of hills to channel blast more effectively, different bomb type). Its efficacy was lessened due to these targetting and overcast cloud issues. Chief among them-missing the drop zone substantially. As the saying goes, 'close' only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades (and A-bombs). But there's still something to be said for optimal targetting and its effects. I've always wondered how the end of the war would have been different had Indianapolis been sunk with the 'gadgets' onboard en route to the war zone. I've also wondered how the war would have been different had Enola Gay or Bock's Car suffered a mechanical failure and had to ditch or faced fighter resistance near the target. Would we have waited another few months to get another couple bombs? Would the Soviet intervention still have prompted the Japanese surrender? With the availability of Okinawa as a major base, would we have nuked Tokyo or Osaka instead? Well, the biggest factor would have been time. With the mining of Japanese harbors and the virtual loss of all Japanese shipping, the Islands were facing mass starvation with the coming winter. Perhaps a bit more of a Russian land grab and certainly more casualties on both sides but I don't really think that the A-bomb was a dramatic factor in ending the war. It was reaching the point where they were beating a dead horse anyway. Personally, I don't think an invasion would have been necessary but it is all speculation.

Chickenboy -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 5:50:43 PM)
The Wikipedia on the bombings is surprisingly good. Some pictures there from the ground that I hadn't seen before. This from there too: reminds me that extermination of the Japanese as a people was not that unpopular a notion then. [image]local://upfiles/6968/1D3E6BFF13204FFBA810B99A7B899E82.jpg[/image]

Lecivius -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 5:58:28 PM)
True, the Bomb was not the only weapon being set up for use. There was already a plan to use defoliants in conjunction with the blockade with the idea of starving Japan into submission. Considering the Japanese mid set of the time, the result would have been...medieval.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 6:02:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay Ummm.... it sounds like Miller was the recipient of an atomic bomb attack by Faber so he should know the results without recon, shouldn't he? Re-reading it looks like you're right. I didn't realize who the penguin was. There are several around here. [:)] True... I suppose that it could be another penguin. On this forum whenever I hear of somebody being called "penguin" I think of Fabertong, just as whenever I hear of somebody being called "banana boy" I think of Luskan... Speaking of old hands... where's Saueracker, anyway? I haven't seen a post from him in at least 18 months. The "penguin" to me is Greyjoy due to an unfortunate photo posted in his game with rader and which I cannot scrub from my mind no matter how much booze I associate myself with.[:'(]

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 6:04:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miller Yes it Fabertong I'm playing. Just done the next turn and definately no effect whatsoever on industry with regards to damage. However I have noticed he seems to have gained almost 4000 strategic points. I don't see how that happens.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 6:05:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chris H I've always wondered why using one should result in a victory point loss. It doesn't. You have to use three or more. Allied side I'm speaking of here.

LoBaron -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 7:09:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy quote: ORIGINAL: LoBaron Not realistic, but this is how I think the game treats it. I wonder if Michael could do somehting about it, but I guess this is pretty difficult. An option would be to max out all potentially impacting values for this single mission type, so the game treats a bombing run as if DL was @ max, weather clear, and alt some default value, even if the true values diverge. While I agree that the impact / damage wrought by the A-bomb should be catastrophic to those units in a given hex, I disagree about maximum DL, assumption of clear weather, etc. These factors-missing the aim point by several kilometers-mitigated the effects of the plutonium bomb on Nagasaki. The Nagasaki bomb should have been even more damaging than Hiroshima (higher nominal yield, effects of hills to channel blast more effectively, different bomb type). Its efficacy was lessened due to these targetting and overcast cloud issues. Chief among them-missing the drop zone substantially. As the saying goes, 'close' only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades (and A-bombs). But there's still something to be said for optimal targetting and its effects. I've always wondered how the end of the war would have been different had Indianapolis been sunk with the 'gadgets' onboard en route to the war zone. I've also wondered how the war would have been different had Enola Gay or Bock's Car suffered a mechanical failure and had to ditch or faced fighter resistance near the target. Would we have waited another few months to get another couple bombs? Would the Soviet intervention still have prompted the Japanese surrender? With the availability of Okinawa as a major base, would we have nuked Tokyo or Osaka instead? Agreed, my proposal was definitely lacking depth. A bit of variation would be required. As for your musings, yes the what if scenarios are interesting, but my personal view is that resistance would have collapsed due to the Soviet onslaught independent to the use of nuclear weapons. Kwantung Army was crushed much too fast by the Red Army, I imagine the shock for the Imperial HQ was close to equal to the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Both demonstrated the complete military inferiority and futilness of further resistance in seperate events. Even the stoic Japanese relation to death had to crumble at a point. I heavily doubt that not dropping the bombs in August would have delayed VJ-day and delayed enough for the delivery of another set of a-bombs.

jmalter -> RE: Results of Atomic bomb attack in my game. (1/23/2013 11:52:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy I've always wondered how the end of the war would have been different had Indianapolis been sunk with the 'gadgets' onboard en route to the war zone. I've also wondered how the war would have been different had Enola Gay or Bock's Car suffered a mechanical failure and had to ditch or faced fighter resistance near the target. Richard Frank wrote some interesting things in "Downfall", his take on various 'what-ifs'. as best i recall, these included: - B-29s were about to switch to targeting Japanese railroads, ruining their food-distribution. - USN CVs were offshore of the home islands, interdicting what remained of coastal transport. - Soviet attacks on Manchuria/Sakhalin (accelerated by the A-bomb strikes) would have included Hokkaido. - despite the A-bomb attacks (that vaporized the ArmyHQ at Hiroshima), the IJA was entirely ready to fight to the last civilian on Kyushu. - King/Nimitz were borderline-ready to remove their imprimatur from the November '44 "Coronet" invasion of Kyushu, as Ultra intel had revealed that the Kyushu defenses were 3 times stronger than expected. - subsequent to the A-bombs, it was only the Emporer's personal intervention that produced the IJ surrender. absent those strikes, IJ resistance would most likely have continued, w/ 'medieval' effects on Japan as mentioned above.

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