RE: A new ACW.. (Full Version)

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BASB -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 8:14:36 AM)

Hey my silliness has sound logic.




Jim D Burns -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 8:15:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB
and how many people will die because their need


Oh give me a freaking break, please don't pretend you actually give a crap about death rates if you're for gun control. Here's some statistics to prove a point:

quote:

In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings.


quote:

Alcohol abuse kills some 75,000 Americans each year and shortens the lives of these people by an average of 30 years, a U.S. government study suggested.

Excessive alcohol consumption is the third leading cause of preventable death in the United States after tobacco use and poor eating and exercise habits.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which published the study, estimated that 34,833 people in 2001 died from cirrhosis of the liver, cancer and other diseases linked to drinking too much beer, wine and spirits.
Another 40,933 died from car crashes and other mishaps caused by excessive alcohol use.


If you want to cite the numbers of deaths that occur by guns in your argument to ban firearms then you better dam well be advocating for the return of prohibition as well. Otherwise your full of s**t and are simply pushing your agenda by politicizing a recent tragedy. That kind of feigned concern weakens your position in any rational persons view.

It's a whole different can of worms when someone talks about taking away your beer isn't it? Concern over death statistics go right out the window if it's an issue as sacred as beer. Oh one last statistic, 60% of gun homicides are alcohol related homicides.

If you can't make a strong argument based on the actual merits of your position, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your position.

Jim




heyhellowhatsnew -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 8:16:49 AM)

Just vote for a cyborg robot overlord like the end of the first Deus Ex game.




BASB -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 9:28:39 AM)

Mr Burns, Yes I do give a damn, and my grammar is poor, and facts may not be 100% right, but doesn't bother me, guns do. I have been on the wrong end of guns on several occasions and I don't particularly like that much. I have the right to dislike guns, I think I've earn that right.
Yes Cigarettes Grog and lots of other things kill too, but if you exclude passive smoke, smokers kill themselves not scores of innocent bystanders.




rogo727 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 12:37:33 PM)

Civil war no. The problem with America is welfare. Food stamp reform could save us billions. Put people to work let them earn their keep you know like Hitler did and that turned out alright err wait... Never mind .




wodin -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 4:00:05 PM)

Personally I'm envious that in the US you can arm and protect yourself..in the UK firearms are banned..yet there where 28 shootings last half year in Liverpool alone..




barkorn45 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 4:40:28 PM)

not prophets?at the ratification of the constitution patrick henry was asked by the governor of virginia if virginia could leave the union once it was formed
Henry said you certainly could but be warned that some future president may invade your country and burn down your homes.
sounds pretty prophetic given what happened 71 years later!
also people need to remember that the constitution does'nt grant us rights it clarifies the rights we are endowed with naturally as human beings
and that which the government CANNOT interfere with or infringe!
the founders may not have been gods but i wish our current politicions had more of their intelligence and backbone{and please stop with the slave owner c**p that criticism is interposing our beliefs on a culture of 200 years ago and is stupid and a waste of time.
[/quote]

I never got the deification or fetishizing of our "founding fathers". They were old slave owners who believed in things like the best way to solve a dispute was the duel with handguns and other outdated nonsensical beliefs and genociding Native Americans

They were just humans that lived centuries ago. Not Gods. Not prophets.

At least they had the common sense to know that our constitution is something meant to be evolved, because they had to foresight to know that human thought evolved and things change. Or poor whites, women and people like me would never be able to vote. That kinda thing.

As I said, i'm very very very socialist and I don't think that the second amendment should be repealed. And it won't. There is no gestapo that will take your gun away. I promise you this. This is never going to happen. No one will come and take anyone's gun away ever.

After all, the NRA and other lobbyists have bought our representatives pretty well so that any idea of a true gun control solution that will help lessen the deaths of our children and teens will never happen.

Welcome to the government. Highest bidder gets what they want. More of a reason for ALL of us to band together against the wealthy elite.
[/quote]




wodin -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 4:47:25 PM)

Gun control wont lessen deaths of kids and teens..as those who do that will still get them anyway..I imagine it being an impossibility to claim back all he guns out there..those not handed in will belong to criminals or nutters..and only the law abiding will have nothing to defend themselves with.

Here we had someone goto a school and attack the kids and teacher with a machete instead.

When I had gang issues living in Anfield I was always waiting for the day they finally put it to me..either shot or stabbed and boy did I wish i had some means of protection from them..




MrRoadrunner -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 4:56:40 PM)

Wodin,
Yes, in the US it is a protected right to bear arms. We should not give it up. Bad people get their hands on guns and the innocent won't be able to defend themselves.
It happened in Aurora Co. The shooter went to the third theater and shot 12 defenseless innocents because it was a "gun free zone". The first two were "permit to carry concealed" and he avoided them because he "did not want to get hurt."
Virginia Tech was a gun free zone. How did that work out?
The President sends his children to a school that has 11 armed guards (and are hiring a 12th). And, the secret service detail are additionally armed.
In Connecticut they were unprotected, except by the brave teachers and administrators who put their lives in the way of the bullets. Had they been armed, or had an armed guard, it might have been different? At least our innocent ones would have protection?

Hitler confiscated guns in Germany. It sure did help when he rounded up the infirm, mental patients, gays, Jews, Christians, and all who resisted his Governmental policies?
"When they came for me" ... I hope they find me armed ... "there was no one to stand up for me".

If anyone does not want guns they can go to countries that ban them. That is fine by me. Don't go to Switzerland. I hear they are welcome there too.

RR




barkorn45 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:07:55 PM)

Each year 45+% of criminals apprehended in this country are apprehended by armed citizens,what if we had no armed citizenship? alot more victimization but i could be wrong,right?




junk2drive -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:14:23 PM)

Just to clarify for those posters outside of the USA, the second amendment is not to protect us from other civilians, it is to remind our govt that we are in control, not them. It doesn't work but a nice thought.




vonRocko -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:23:16 PM)


quote:

There is no gestapo that will take your gun away. I promise you this. This is never going to happen. No one will come and take anyone's gun away ever.





Oh yes there is! It's name is Homeland security, and all they have to do is label you a "domestic terrorist" then lock you up. Not for your "actions" but for your "thoughts" and "intentions". It has and is happening. Look at the wording of the "patriot act", it is almost a transcript of hitlers enabling acts. When the time is right, and hysteria over drugs, crime, and terrorism is high, they will strike. Oh they will leave us one shot rifles and shotguns and say we can still have guns, but any weapons capable of matching the governments firepower will be gone. My local newspaper has letters to the editor daily from people BEGGING the government to take away guns! A few more years or decades of our schools educating (indoctrinating) the young, and the majority will plead for gun bans. A blind man can see this course coming. We already got police (gestapo) agents stopping citizens (who are doing nothing) and checking their papers. Right out of nazi Germany. Go ahead, keep your heads in the sand. If they label you a terrorist, than anything goes, constitution be damned.




vonRocko -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:24:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Just to clarify for those posters outside of the USA, the second amendment is not to protect us from other civilians, it is to remind our govt that we are in control, not them. It doesn't work but a nice thought.

[sm=happy0065.gif]At least you get it!




junk2drive -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:41:34 PM)

Nobody rioted over the Patriot Act so lets try NDAA. Still nothing? Lets try...

Also when the 2nd amendment was written, there were no rifles, or Gatling guns, or tear gas, or sarin gas or sound weapons or skin burning weapons or nukes or HARP, or...




barkorn45 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 5:54:31 PM)

there is a professor at harvard who proposes we disgard the constitution and he is teaching our children,the next generation i fear for our future.
another scary thought we are raising a generation that does'nt remember life as it was before the patriot act,the tsa and the reichsichierdienst[homeland security department]
be afraid be very afraid




barkorn45 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 6:03:56 PM)

and the patriot act was created by the bush administration a supposedly[and i mean supposedly]republican administration.
and liberals howled against it,and rightly so,but now that its obama's patriot act its all right
just like his foreign wars are now righteous wars.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko


quote:

There is no gestapo that will take your gun away. I promise you this. This is never going to happen. No one will come and take anyone's gun away ever.





Oh yes there is! It's name is Homeland security, and all they have to do is label you a "domestic terrorist" then lock you up. Not for your "actions" but for your "thoughts" and "intentions". It has and is happening. Look at the wording of the "patriot act", it is almost a transcript of hitlers enabling acts. When the time is right, and hysteria over drugs, crime, and terrorism is high, they will strike. Oh they will leave us one shot rifles and shotguns and say we can still have guns, but any weapons capable of matching the governments firepower will be gone. My local newspaper has letters to the editor daily from people BEGGING the government to take away guns! A few more years or decades of our schools educating (indoctrinating) the young, and the majority will plead for gun bans. A blind man can see this course coming. We already got police (gestapo) agents stopping citizens (who are doing nothing) and checking their papers. Right out of nazi Germany. Go ahead, keep your heads in the sand. If they label you a terrorist, than anything goes, constitution be damned.





Titanwarrior89 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 7:12:42 PM)

I know the police try but they usually show up after the deed is done to identify the bodies. I would rather be in court to explainwhy this intruder is deceased and not me or my family. Maybe one day we will never need gunsand we can be protected. Arm yourselfs......the bad guys do. Case in Point: Two guysbreak into home,tie up the father, mother and two daughters. They force the mother to go to the bank and draw money out. They get their money-rape and shoot the mother.....rape the 17 year old daughter....the father gets untied and gets away....they throw lighter fluid on the two bound daughters.....17 and 14. They sit the house on fire.....You know what those two guys got....life....can you believe it, life. They should have been hung by the neck until DEAD. A mom, and two young girls died in that mess because of these animals......You can't protect with out protection.....the police arrived to ID the bodies....or what was left of them after the house burnt down. The fact is we still need guns. Why, because the Human animal is the Worst animal in world. He kills for anything.




barkorn45 -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 7:35:40 PM)

the police investigate crime scenes they very rarely prevent crime
like bill jordan once said"its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"!




Rodia -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 7:58:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

The second amendment is not to protect us from other civilians, it is to remind our govt that we are in control, not them. It doesn't work but a nice thought.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfe

The 2nd Amendment may have been a good idea when it was written.

Times change.


[:)]




Jim D Burns -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 8:01:58 PM)

If all the gun control advocates had their way, this woman and her kids would probably be dead today. But you won't see this splashed across international news media, no way, as it's a stark example of why gun ownership saves lives.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/woman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/nTm7s/

Jim




Perturabo -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 8:08:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko


quote:

There is no gestapo that will take your gun away. I promise you this. This is never going to happen. No one will come and take anyone's gun away ever.





Oh yes there is! It's name is Homeland security, and all they have to do is label you a "domestic terrorist" then lock you up. Not for your "actions" but for your "thoughts" and "intentions". It has and is happening. Look at the wording of the "patriot act", it is almost a transcript of hitlers enabling acts. When the time is right, and hysteria over drugs, crime, and terrorism is high, they will strike. Oh they will leave us one shot rifles and shotguns and say we can still have guns, but any weapons capable of matching the governments firepower will be gone.

Technically speaking, people don't have anything that matches the government firepower since the tanks were introduced and its getting worse and worse the more expensive combat equipment the government gets.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Civil war no. The problem with America is welfare. Food stamp reform could save us billions. Put people to work let them earn their keep you know like Hitler did and that turned out alright err wait... Never mind .

The main problem with ideas like these is that there's not enough work for people who want to work.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BASB

Mr Burns, Yes I do give a damn, and my grammar is poor, and facts may not be 100% right, but doesn't bother me, guns do. I have been on the wrong end of guns on several occasions and I don't particularly like that much. I have the right to dislike guns, I think I've earn that right.
Yes Cigarettes Grog and lots of other things kill too, but if you exclude passive smoke, smokers kill themselves not scores of innocent bystanders.

He talked about beer, not smoke. Also passive smoking is much more deadly than active smoking because active smokers smoke through filters and passive smoke is unfiltered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkorn45

Each year 45+% of criminals apprehended in this country are apprehended by armed citizens,what if we had no armed citizenship? alot more victimization but i could be wrong,right?

Additionally, armed policemen are much more dangerous for innocent bystanders than armed citizens. While armed citizens kill more criminals than policemen, they are several times less likely to shoot an innocent person.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

I know the police try but they usually show up after the deed is done to identify the bodies. I would rather be in court to explain why this intruder is deceased and not me or my family. Maybe one day we will never need guns and we can be protected. Arm yourselfs......the bad guys do. Case in Point: Two guys break into home,tie up the father, mother and two daughters. They force the mother to go to the bank and draw money out. They get their money-rape and shoot the mother.....rape the 17 year old daughter....the father gets untied and gets away....they throw lighter fluid on the two bound daughters.....17 and 14. They sit the house on fire.....You know what those two guys got....life....can you believe it, life. They should have been hung by the neck until DEAD. A mom, and two young girls died in that mess because of these animals......You can't protect with out protection.....the police arrived to ID the bodies....or what was left of them after the house burnt down. The fact is we still need guns. Why, because the Human animal is the Worst animal in world. He kills for anything.

quote:

in why this intruder is deceased and not me or my family. Maybe one day we will never need guns and we can be protected. Arm yourselfs......the bad guys do. Case in Point: Two guys break into home,tie up the father, mother and two daughters. They force the mother to go to the bank and draw money out. They get their money-rape and shoot the mother.....rape the 17 year old daughter....the father gets untied and gets away....they throw lighter fluid on the two bound daughters.....17 and 14. They sit the house on fire.....You know what those two guys got....life....can you believe it, life. They should have been hung by the neck until DEAD. A mom, and two young girls died in that mess because of these animals......You can't protect with out protection.....the police arrived to ID the bodies....or what was left of them after the house burnt down. The fact is we still need guns. Why, because the Human animal is the Worst animal in world. He kills for anything.

< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 1/6/2013 8:13:52 P

Exactly. And here they won't even provide protection when someone is harassed by gangs. Because "they are no protection agency". Gun ownership should be a human right.




Perturabo -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 8:24:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

I used to laugh at the tin foil hat crowd until it got so blatant. NDAA for example.

Why is Microsoft, google, facebook, twitter, so big? So that they can keep track of you. Does govt run on Windows and Office? Why is Skype free? So that they can get a faceshot of you for face recognition software. Why do people report that their laptop camera and microphone turn on by themselves? Why do they give cell phones to poor people? GPS tracking and call monitoring. ad nauseam...

Advertisements. Advertisers believe that they are brainwashing people into buying their products. Google, Facebook and Twitter are basically the biggest advertisers. They also offer targeted ads, which also makes corporations pay them (which is all scary and creepy by itself).
Microsoft is so big because mainstream developers don't make games for Linux and Linux is not so efficient anyway.
As for the cell phones:
Cell phone companies only call it "free" getting a "free" cell phone is basically getting a loan which you pay back in phone bills (I suspect that the cell phone infrastructure is much less expensive to upkeep than normal phone infrastructure). That's why I don't have a cell phone at all. I can't afford buying it for cash and there's no such thing as a free cell phone.




Perturabo -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 8:33:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heyhellowhatsnew

Trust me, I WISH Obama was the socialist Fox News makes him out to be, but he is seriously like the rest of the center-right politicians in our nation masquerading for one side to get elected into power. See the example I gave in the post you quoted before.

He's a far right authoritarian, a.k.a. fascist. American parties basically got centrists/a bit right to the centre (Republicans) and leftists (Democrats) to vote for fascists basing on "conservative" vs "progressive" values so that they could realise their far right authoritarian plans.




2ndACR -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 11:08:44 PM)

Well before the lock, I will post this.

There is a reason why the 2nd Amendment is where it is at, the 1st is, some say, the most important and the 2nd Amendment is there to make sure the 1st stays there. Now the arguments about all the different guns, I am former military and own modern military style weapons, I also have several thousands rounds of ammo for all my different guns. Reasons, are as follows:

1: Much cheaper to buy ammo in bulk numbers
2: I can easily shoot 500+ rounds in a single trip to the range, shooting is that much fun (way more if the family goes with me)
3: Guns cannot be "outlawed" but they can dang well tax my ammo out of sight or outlaw that
4: Some day, god forbid, I might actually need my ammo

Now, hammers and clubs kill more people than modern military style rifles (note not assault weapons), fists and feet kill more than these types of rifles. Very few criminals actually even try to use these types of rifles, why, heavy, hard to conceal.

I have a concealed carry permit and exercise my right to carry, I have had need to draw my weapon on several occasions. I for one refuse to be a victim, I prefer to turn the tables on any would be criminal and make him the victim instead. And also as for the so called "what did they mean by "militia" in the 2nd Amendment" there is this:

But what really is the militia? According to United States Code, Title 10 USC 311 -- Militia: composition and classes:

(a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b)The classes of the militia are-

(1)the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2)the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

I will end this by saying, I will NEVER give up my guns. NEVER.




chijohnaok -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/6/2013 11:48:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR


Now, hammers and clubs kill more people than modern military style rifles (note not assault weapons), fists and feet kill more than these types of rifles. Very few criminals actually even try to use these types of rifles, why, heavy, hard to conceal.






Knives and blades used in murders killing between 4-5 times as many people as rifles (All rifles, not just the "infamous" assault weapons).
Hands, fist and feet were used in murders killing twice as many as rifles.

Shall we come up with a way to regulate or outlaw knives, hands, fists and feet?



[image]local://upfiles/7235/9D4758BC68D3461E87F9F884D9A84769.jpg[/image]




Missouri_Rebel -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/7/2013 12:22:54 AM)

The Bill of Rights are not up for debate.

Period.

rhondabrwn, with all due respect ma'am, crazies are not constrained by any party or ideology. One need look no further than the Huffington Post. The progressives have commented many times about repealing the 2nd Amendment, calling the constitution toilet paper, suggesting house sweeps for guns, officially naming the NRA as a terrorist origination etc.

I have mostly respected liberals of the not so distant past, classical liberals if you will, even if I did not agree with some of the things they were for. But what has changed imo is that classical liberals feared, and for good reasons, a powerful overreaching government. The radicals of today care nothing of your rights or opinion because they have deemed you too ignorant to have any rational thought to begin with. And your rights? They consider them privileges.

They are calling for a national registry for one thing. Sure makes it easier when those same radicals violate the 4th Amendment and 'decide' to come and take them. Regulation is their vehicle. Confiscation is their designation.

Don't believe me. Just read what those who are pushing this agenda post. No need for conspiracies I say.

'those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.'





Zap -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/7/2013 12:35:04 AM)

Rhondabrwn, mentioned that JFK was a radical? When?


Liberal's, Marxists, Communists, (all the same) have brought their beliefs to a level of religion. And they will step on your rights to impose it.




hadberz -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/7/2013 1:38:08 AM)

In my opinion even if there was some draconian gun control law passed I believe some States would just ignore it. Kind of like how Colorado and Washington are ignoring the Federal laws on marijuana.

Anyways all this gun control talk got me interested on what early Americans thought of the Constitution. So I picked up Ratification by Pauline Maier. I just started reading it, but pretty good read so far.




rhondabrwn -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/7/2013 6:16:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

The Bill of Rights are not up for debate.

Period.

rhondabrwn, with all due respect ma'am, crazies are not constrained by any party or ideology. One need look no further than the Huffington Post. The progressives have commented many times about repealing the 2nd Amendment, calling the constitution toilet paper, suggesting house sweeps for guns, officially naming the NRA as a terrorist origination etc.

I have mostly respected liberals of the not so distant past, classical liberals if you will, even if I did not agree with some of the things they were for. But what has changed imo is that classical liberals feared, and for good reasons, a powerful overreaching government. The radicals of today care nothing of your rights or opinion because they have deemed you too ignorant to have any rational thought to begin with. And your rights? They consider them privileges.

They are calling for a national registry for one thing. Sure makes it easier when those same radicals violate the 4th Amendment and 'decide' to come and take them. Regulation is their vehicle. Confiscation is their designation.

Don't believe me. Just read what those who are pushing this agenda post. No need for conspiracies I say.

'those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.'




Ah, everyone is crazy save thee and me... and... (wait for it.....) sometimes I think ME a bit crazy as well [:D]

I'm not any kind of classic liberal... I'm just a reformed conservative Republican who fell on hard times and got a real, close look at poverty and discrimination in America... and it changed me forever... I care about people, all people, all races and I don't want to see them massacred in any "bloody Kansas" re-enactment over manufactured fears and hatreds. I want to see equal rights for all and the right to a living wage, adequate medical care, a decent un-politicized education for everyone, and personal safety and freedom for all. If that makes me crazy in some people's eyes, then so be it.

But I ask once again... exactly what is everyone's scenario for using their weapons to fight the feared government takeover? You have your guns, now how do you see them being used to defend freedom? I haven't heard a plan yet from anyone I've asked. What would ACW II look like... you are all expert military gamers... how do you see it playing out. What kind of government would replace the feared declaration of martial law by Executive Order. I'd be interested in your plans. Rush Limbaugh, President for Life perhaps? Imposition of Biblical Law? A mandated State Religion? A good old military dictatorship by the Joint Chiefs of Staff? A return to the Articles of Confederation and eliminate a National Government? A Libertarian society with minimal laws and everyone for themselves? So many possibilities, but would you really prefer any of these to our current, admittedly imperfect, Democracy?




Aurelian -> RE: A new ACW.. (1/7/2013 6:29:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn


[
But I ask once again... exactly what is everyone's scenario for using their weapons to fight the feared government takeover? You have your guns, now how do you see them being used to defend freedom?


In this corner we have the guy with his AR-15, a couple of deer rifles, maybe some pistols. In this corner, we have the guys with, well, everything.




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